Ohio to Keep Counting Provisional Ballots

[Tony_FLADEM]

<http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20041103/ap_on_el_pr/ohio_ballots>

[Straight Shooter]

1. Now the number is down to "more than 150,000"

:wtf:

[joeunderdog]

21. seems to be lots more to this story yet to come...

The election could hinge on as many as 250,000 additional provisional ballots -- cast by voters whose eligibility was unclear on Election Day -- as well as tens of thousands of absentee military ballots. The provisional ballots are counted if the voters are later deemed eligible, but under state law they cannot be counted for 11 days. State officials said last night they would not declare a winner if the margin between President Bush and Sen. John F. Kerry was narrower than the number of provisional ballots.

To complicate matters further, some voters in the state were still casting ballots as late as 2:30 a.m. today because of long lines at the polls. Nearly three-quarters of the state's registered voters cast ballots.

Secretary of State J. Kenneth Blackwell estimated early this morning that the number of provisional ballots could be 175,000, although he had said earlier that the total could reach 250,000. As of 2:20 a.m., at least 96,221 of the ballots had been used, but 25 counties had not reported their numbers, according to Blackwell's Web site and the Cuyahoga County Board of Elections.



http://www.ilcaonline.org/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid=835

[mtnester]

2. Like I said, no legal challenge ALLOWS the votes to be counted

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=1309950&mesg_id=1309950

[Carni]

6. Well if that is the case maybe Kerry had a method to his madness

We know what would have happened in the supreme court and we know what would have happened in congress (that would be bush declared the winner) Maybe they figured this was the only way the public would get the truth about these numbers?

[NVMojo]

34. of course he does and he has a very good attorney as a partner

Edwards was in fighting form today when they conceded. Ready to go to work!!!

[uppityperson]

91. I still don't get this argument

1. Concede and let the votes be counted rather than tying them up in court.
2. Let the lawyers go, tie up the votes and risk having them be never counted.
How about #3?
3. Don't concede and let the votes be counted even if it takes a week?
Are we so in need of instant gratification? I don't understand why he did #1 and not #3. And I am very upset about it all. thank you.

[Ms. Toad]

10. Nonsense.

The timing of the counting of provisional ballots is not dependent on whether or not there is a concession, or legal challenges. Besides which, refusing to concede is different from initiating a legal challenge.

[RememberTheCoup]

3. Well, that's mighty "white" of them.

So magnanimous of them to actually finish counting the votes. :eyes:

[carolinalady]

4. WHY aren't we hearing about Fl. absentee?????

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

5. My same question...there were around 1.2 million yet to be counted

Is that right? When does the absentee count happen? MKJ

[ibeplato]

7. Thursday?

From Bloomberg today:

With 78 of the 88 Ohio counties reporting, 135,149 provisional ballots had been issued, according to Carlo LoParo, Blackwell's spokesman. The 10 counties not reporting represented 10.5 percent of the provisional ballots four years ago.


Blackwell instructed the remaining counties to submit their provisional ballots numbers by 2 p.m. Washington time today. He told the counties not to begin verifying any of the provisional ballots until tomorrow, after two conference calls he scheduled with the election boards.

[wicket]

8. are they going to be counted?

I hope so....the electoral college doesn't meat for another month.

[lizzieforkerry]

53. Because OBL said he would attack the state that decided the

election for Bush and Jeb doesn't want it to be Florida! Instead, I voted for Kerry and I am going to die anyway!

[Deja Q]

9. I'd rather hear about the Diebold machines and see the code...

None of that or this will make a difference. Captain Capitulator has already conceded, faster than Al Bundy could get it on with Peg. x(

[Copperred]

36. GET THE MACHINES OPENED UP

THey shoudl force DIEBOLD TO RELEASE THE CODE NOW!!!!!

ONLINE NOW..FROM ACTUAL MACHINES>.....someone should go and take one.....some silicon valley types and open this bugger up!!

[havocmom]

51. Conceding is a matter of manners, not a legal contract or surrender.

No need to get nasty about it and call Kerry names.

Consider this fact: Each state has to certify its own election results.
That is what finalizes the deal before the EC goes to work.
There is where one could put some energy. If you are in a state where the accuracy of the results might be in question, get to work and get things counted correctly. THAT would be a very constructive use of angry energy.


If you are in a state which does not bind the EC votes to the popular vote, might wanna consider working to change that.

And yes, get the codes for those blasted machines! Am thinking the only way to get the masses clamoring for machines with a trail which can be verified and audited is for the BBV to get hacked/programmed to give the RW a shock too. :evilgrin: Wish I knew something about 'puters.

[nine30]

99. Diebold Code

.......

if(vote_selection == 'Bush') {

Bush_Count = Bush_Count + 1;

}else if ( vote_selection == 'Kerry') {

Kerry_Count = Kerry_Count + 1;
Bush_Count = Bush_Count + 2; // * is ahead in either case

}

......

If (Kerry_Count > Bush_Count ) {

while (Kerry_Count > Bush_Count) {
Bush_Count = Bush_Count + 500;
}

} else if ((Bush_Count - Kerry_Count)< 1000) {

Bush_Count = Bush_Count + 25000;

}

Bush_Count = Bush_Count + 10000; // just for some additional margin

return ;

[sarahlee]

11. Kerry Conceded but we don't have to . . .

Kerry Can Win Ohio
By the International Labor Communications Association
http://ILCAonline.org

The media has collapsed and Kerry has conceded, but we don't have to.

According to CNN, Bush is ahead in the count in Ohio by 136,221. According to the Toledo Blade, Ohio Secretary of State Ken Blackwell has said the number of provisional ballots could be about 175,000. Blackwell also told the Blade that in the last election 90 percent of the provisional ballots ended up being declared valid and being counted, a figure also reported by CBS News Legal Analyst Andrew Cohen.

There is good reason to believe that the provisional ballots are disproportionately for Kerry. This is because many of them are the result of Republicans challenging voters at the polls.

Therefore, Kerry can win, and we need to demand that every vote be counted.

The provisional ballots are expected to be counted in 10 days. Meanwhile, state law allows Republican and Democratic challengers to examine the envelopes and to challenge their eligibility to be counted.

We need massive public pressure in Columbus, Ohio, to demand a fair count.
If you can't go to Ohio, call the Democratic National Committee at 202-863-8000 and tell them that you want the count monitored.
Send them an Email on this page:
http://www.democrats.org/contact

Write letters to the editors of your local newspapers.

Call your local radio and television stations.

Write or call your Congress Members and other elected officials.

Tell them all we want an accurate count.

In addition, numerous possible cases of Republican wrongdoing in Ohio are being investigated, and we must be prepared to act quickly and in great numbers. Various such cases in Florida four years ago were discovered too late.

There are numerous complaints from Ohio of lines at the polls being longer in heavily Democratic precincts, also a result of Republican challengers and part of the Republicans' plan. Other complaints include rejected registrations, polls not open on time, and voters turned away. See:
http://ilcaonline.org/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid=866
and
http://www.alternet.org/election04oh/20384/
and
http://www.michaelmoore.com/electionwatch/state.php?state=OH
and
http://cleveland.indymedia.org/features/election_protests/

Also watch for a related release later today from the Institute for Public Accuracy:
http://www.accuracy.org/

We may also need to demand investigation of the voting machines in Ohio. A year ago the head of Diebold, the company that produced the machines, boasted of his intent to help Bush carry Ohio.
http://www.commondreams.org/headlines03/0828-08.htm

Remember what happened in Florida in 2000:
http://ilcaonline.org/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid=835

For updates, watch http://ILCAonline.org

For questions or information, contact:
David Swanson
ILCA Media Coordinator
[e-mail]
202-974-8037

Please post comments to:
http://ilcaonline.org/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid=883
=============

Please help get this spread around!

[still_one]

12. He should not have conceeded then

[DoYouEverWonder]

56. If he didn't concede

Bush would have unleashed the republican attack machine on him. Instead, W is basking in his glory, shedding his mask and showing his true self to the world. In the meantime at least the votes are being counted.

[trogdor]

75. Besides, the electoral college still has to vote.

I don't think it's particularly relevant to the electoral college whether one candidate has conceeded. They still have to vote. Concession is a formality; I doubt it is really binding.

[Jo March]

73. kick

I can make calls.

We still need to count the votes, regardless of concession. Every.vote.counts.period.

[one_true_leroy]

13. Damn those voters...

casting all those votes that now have to be counted. Damn them for foiling the system :eyes:

[alexisfree]

14. Fuck Ohio...the coward already gave up...Next time I vote for NADAR

[gasperc]

22. having class doesn't make him a coward ass

we can still press the issue of making sure all the provisional ballots get counted and if it gets close enough and automatic recount can occur regardless of input from the candidate. Fraud can still be exposed.

He was magnanimous, Bush has a 3million popular vote lead, at least Gore had the popular vote to back him. Stop with the name calling, the GOP owns Iraq, and it owns the FACT the UBL is on the loose and THREATENING US, Why hasn't ass wipe destroyed him yet???

[Malikshah]

26. Agree here-- it's more than class--it's thinking of other people

over himself.

It's also a savvy move. In the end-- a free count will be publicized by the newly "en-spined" media (hopefully) which will cast more of a pall over whistleasses admin more than anything else.

Our enemy for the next 4 years should be the media-- hold each and every one of them accountable and make their lives a living hell until they do their job.

No need to go on the offensive w/ the chimps admin-- they're doing a good enough job at shooting themselves in the foot on a daily basis.

[Redleg]

62. At least learn how to spell "Nader" if you are going to vote for him.

EOM

[TexasBushwhacker]

15. Okay, good, every ballot should be counted

Provisional, absentee, etc. they should be counted, in every state. The president is elected by the electoral college. In most states, the electors must cast their vote for the candidate who won the majority of the votes in their state. I don't think that there's anyting in the Constitution that says, "The winner of the Presidential race is the one who doesn't concede."

So it's possible, is it not, that Kerry very well may have won Ohio, if not Florida as well. How many absentee and provisional ballots are their to be counted in Florida? With all those retirees, I would think there would be LOTS of absentee ballots.

What about New Mexico and Nevada? Bush won those states by less than 50K each. How many provisional and absentee ballots still need to be counted there?

Don't get me wrong. Kerry's a smart guy and the way things went with Gore ultimately didn't do him any good. Is a "concession" legally binding? I don't see how it could be. WE THE PEOPLE decide who will be President, not the candidates themselves.

[Spangle]

16. He didn't have to give up.

he could have easily said that while he wasn't having a legal battle, he was going to let the voters decided. Which is what he PROMISED to do. And remind people that there is no rush.

Honestly, what would it have hurt?

[TexasBushwhacker]

17. I'm just saying I don't think a concession speech has legal bearing

I think he doesn't want our country to go through what it did last time. Nevertheless, if they count all the provisional and absentee ballots in Ohio and it turns out that Kerry won the state, how could he NOT be elected President by the electoral college?

Our country is already divided. Kerry didn't want to make it more divided by dragging things out and not making a concession speech. However, my question is still, does his "concession" have legal standing if the electorate ends up showing him winning?

[Eye and Monkey]

23. Even if it a concession has no legal standing, can you hear the spin?

The media? BushCo and their minions? The Falwells? All would be saying - "not a president, he conceded, you lost, get over it."

I think the count continues so that BushCo can say after the fact that they were right. I think that they are sorta "planting their WMDs" in this situation. How often have the NOT had the chance to say "see, we were right!" Because they have a chance to rig it to the end, they will.

[gordianot]

43. Yes I can.

Golly, I did win after all and I John Kerry support the law as an officer of the court.

All those poor people who have lost their ballot.

Reporting for duty.

Remote chance, but life the last four years has been strange.

[Samantha]

29. I read that a concession speech is not legally binding

when in 2000, had Gore made it to the podium and actually given his speech, and AFTERWARDS, found out about the automatic recount, had he won the concession would have been immaterial. I am not sure, but it might have been in Too Close To Call, by Jeffrey Toobin (spelling?).

[OldLeftieLawyer]

32. It's not over

Kerry's smart. Trust him.

I may be wrong, but I don't think so ................

[WatchWhatISay]

95. I keep saying this but it seems to be falling on deaf ears

Texas had 23,000 provisional votes. Why would Ohio have 150-250,000 if most of them weren't bogus challenges?

[coreystone]

67. Both Kerry and Edwards made a deliberate statement....

telling us that "EVERY VOTE WOULD COUNT"! Edwards said it late Tuesday night. Then repeated it quite emphatically during the "concession" announcements.

Now! I know we are very exhausted. Maybe, nothing will come of counting and verifying the authenticity of these "provisional votes", in Ohio. Maybe there is a whole lot of "STUFF" we don't know about; maybe Kerry just threw in the towel because he and Edwards are very "unsavvy" politicians and attorneys.

HEY! We've gone this far, why don't we read between the lines a bit. We don't KNOW! Kerry has been around Boston politics for quite a while. Ted Kennedy is right behind him, as well as many others.

Rove et al are rather savvy themselves. Pretend we are at the beginning of a chess game. There are eight pawns on the second rank of each player which may be moved first. Each pawn may move forward either one or two squares. For the pawns, that would be a total of 16 possible choices for each player. Then, of course, the "knight" is able to "jump" over the pawns on the first move for either player; advancing "forward two squares and one square to the "left", or, one square to the "right". That constitutes one move; there are two "knights" for each player. So each player has the choice of four moves for the two "knights" Just on the first move, each player has a choice of up to 20 different moves. After each has moved, then there is a sharp curve of the number of possibilities of each player in terms of their options for choosing their next move and which piece will be moved. THEN! IT STARTS GETTING MUCH MORE COMPLICATED!! :-)

Why don't we just sit back here a bit and STOP playing the "blame game" until we have a better consensus of what IS or what ISN'T playing behind the curtain!

[NVMojo]

35. if the numbers turn in his favor, he is still the winner

[MISSDem]

46. No, a concession is not legally binding.

[AnIndependentTexan]

92. CNN also said that in a certain race someone conceded and then ended up

winning.

[0007]

52. I've hear that it is blinding. I don't indeed know. But wouldn't it

be poetic justice if Kerry did win? I can see junior now in my mind's eye and I can hear Barbara clearly. I love it!

Why don't these things happen in real life? I sometimes think that a controlling factor behind the scenes control the masses in this country.

[St. Jarvitude]

58. Of course it's not binding - it all comes down to the Electoral College

The Electoral College would have met even if Dimson had stolen all 50 states.

[0007]

61. Even old timers learn something new everyday.

[King Coal]

63. Sometimes twice in a day.

[OldLeftieLawyer]

83. Electoral College

They don't meet until the first Monday after the second Wednesday of December - this year, that's the 13th.

Then their votes are opened by the President of the Senate on the 6th of January.

There's a lot of time between now and the 13th of December.

And, no, I'm an old lawyer, and concessions are simply graceful gestures with absolutely no legal authority. Remember when Gore called Bush to withdraw his concession in 2000, after it looked like he was going to win Florida?

Don't give up on Kerry yet. Please.

[nebula]

18. In addition to the provisionals,

200,000 punch card ballots remain uncounted in Ohio.

The junk voting machines don't read them if they aren't punched all the way through, so they remain uncounted.

I hope someone contests those ballots!

/yeah right.

[fryguy]

59. chads redux

sounds like a little bit of Florida 2000 showing up in Ohio 2004

[Massacure]

19. What if Ohio turns Kerry in a November or December Suprise?

Can Kerry still be president even thought he conceded? What does concede mean?

[OldLeftieLawyer]

20. "Concede" has no legal standing

Kerry might not be as much of a quitter as people are making him out to be. There was a line in his speech this afternoon that made me think he's got something up his sleeve:

"Audience member: We still got your back!

Kerry: Thank you, man. And I assure you – you watch – I'll still have yours."

Concession is simply a gesture - it's not legally binding. Until the election is certified and the members of the electoral college have cast their votes, it's not over.

I honest to God think Kerry's got something going on in Ohio right now. I really do.

It's not over until then. So, keep Kerry close, please. He did a fabulous job, don't forget. He's still my hero.

[NVMojo]

37. don't forget, he's got Edwards, a great attorney, with him!!!

these two men are not stupid.

[goodboy]

24. I'm curious too. Will kerry become pres if he wins ohio once all the

votes are counted.

[yellowcanine]

60. Of course he would - but that is a big IF. The election can't be

certified in Ohio until all of the eligible provisional ballots and absentees are counted. In the event that Kerry came out ahead, he would be certified as the winner in Ohio and then he would have over 270 electoral votes. Game, set, match.

[goodboy]

72. hmm...I read another thread that says only 5 people per county are

needed for a recount. we should fight...

[gordianot]

25. Talked to an attorney today. Trojan Horse

This person called Kerry's concession a Trojan Horse when they heard they were going on with the count of provisional ballots.

Maybe there was a deal no other litigation for the myriad fraud cases if Kerry concedes and they keep the recount in Ohio.

Kerry concedes, no supreme court maneuver, calm Wall Street, and Kerry is the man of the hour for preserving the Union.

Ain't over yet.

[Divine Discontent]

28. interesting indeed.

plausible conspiracies that may be true, things will still have to go his way a lot. I assume they accept the defeat and understand ballots will be counted and who knows?!

It's over for me, unless I hear from Kerry otherwise.

They tried, at first I was very mad at him, but I understand his reasoning with what he said today. he's honorable unlike dick n bush. sometimes honorable men do what we perceive is the weakest thing we can imagine.....


God bless,,,,,

[trogdor]

76. It's over for me, too.

I find this thread intriguing, though.

[OldLeftieLawyer]

31. It's not over

I'm an old trial attorney.

This election is not over.

Keep these dates in mind: December 13, 2004 and January 6, 2005.

[gordianot]

42. Exactly

[Straight Shooter]

80. I've seen it all in the courtrooms, too. It's all about PERFORMANCE

I just wrote this in another thread, this is a good place to share it:

John Kerry is staying above the fray. Legally, his concession meant diddly-squat. Edwards, remember, was "shouting" with fireworks. He was the actual messenger. These men are professionals.

One reason we got screwed in 2000 is because the recount was all about Al Gore, I'm sorry to say. People associated the recount with Gore being a "sore loser." He was in it up to his eyeballs, especially with bush filing suit.

bush won't file suit again, it will look extremely suspicious. That's why he grabbed the crown so fast and rammed it onto his pointed head. It's all about who claims to be King of the Hill first.

Notice how all the media is saying how "gracious" Kerry is. When all votes are counted, and Kerry comes out ahead, no one will be angry with him. Stunned, maybe. But not angry.

*fingers crossed, praying fervently*

And why do you think bush is moving so damn fast to implement his agendas. Jeebers, not even a breather and he has hit the ground running!

Clarification: the media can't be angry; they've already patted him on the back for his concession "performance." And believe me, it was a performance, all about kids and how heartfelt the whole experience has been and coming together to unite and heal. I was pissed until it dawned on me what was actually happening.

[Lugnut]

82. He only "hit the ground running"

With his mouth. His body is vacationing in beautiful Camp David for the weekend. :puke:

[OldLeftieLawyer]

84. Bingo!

I agree completely with what you say here, Shooter.

Kerry's not making waves, and, in the finest warrior tradition, he is standing still. Let Bush run around and chimp it up and let the rightwingnuts do all their gloating. All of it is written on water. We must remember that.

Until the electoral college meets on December 13, and until the President of the Senate (gag, choke, gag) opens the envelope containing their votes on January 6, 2005, it's all up for grabs.

I really believe Kerry is that smart. They HAD to be ready for bullshit like this, and I would think it brilliant if the stories they put out were phony, designed to throw the "journalists' off their trail. After all, the media in this country is as stupid as Shrub, and they deserve nothing but misleading. They've done so well with the crap they've gotten from the White House - the stuff they treat as gospel truth.

But, I digress.

Let's just hold the two Johns and their wives - especially Elizabeth - in our hearts and prayers for now, and pray to whomever we believe that good and righteous men will prevail.

[Straight Shooter]

86. Thank you kindly, Ms. Dingo

You're quite the trial dog, too, I imagine. (I sent you PM's which now require no reply, as I see the significance of the dates in your post here.)

As for 12/13/04, what a wonderful belated birthday gift for Kerry that would be if someone whispered in HIS ear, "The fix is in."

*fingers crossed, praying fervently*

[OldLeftieLawyer]

88. I just answered you, Shooter

Check your mailbox.

I'm a newbie, and didn't know people could write to others. So, pardon my delay in getting back to you.

And, thank you.

[InvisibleTouch]

94. Your posts are giving me this crazy kind of hope....

Every time I've been convinced Kerry had done something stupid, or didn't have the strength and the nerve to take a strong stand, he has pleasantly surprised me beyond all expectations. For those of us who were here through that long long July night when we were waiting for the Vice Presidential pick ... remember how we felt when we thought it was Gephardt? Remember the disappointment, the denouncements? And remember what the actual news turned out to be? ;)

I'm back on the emotional roller coaster here. Was pretty depressed earlier; now I've got some crazy hope back....

[OldLeftieLawyer]

85. This is the exchange that made me think ..........

...... there was something going on beyond what we were seeing:

The shout, coming when it did, and what the guy said, didn't make any sense, when you think about it. Of all the things the guy could have called out, why would he say:

"Audience member: We still got your back!"

Kerry's response was telling, too, with those two words in the middle:

"Thank you, man. And I assure you – you watch – I'll still have yours."

Maybe he just meant that he'd be wonderful in the Senate, fighting against the rightwingnuts, but it was such a strange thing to say, don't you think?

"... you watch ..."

Maybe I'm seeing things that aren't there. But, in this degree of despair and sadness, I have to choose to believe.

[Dogmudgeon]

27. Kerry's "concession"

Concessions are worthless.

The law is clear. If the Ohio ballots are totaled and Kerry wins, then Kerry is the President-Elect. End of story.

If so much of a hint of electoral fraud by Republicans is produced, I guarantee that every state will scrutinize their votes. They will be compelled to actively look for reasons why the vote went as it did. If, indeed, fraud did occur, then it will certainly emerge at that point.

If everything went honestly, was kosher, and George Bush did, in fact, win the election fair and square, then all is well and good in the eyes of the law. But John Kerry can't just say "I give up". No one can do that. It's like ... like joining the Air National Guard and deciding you just don't want to be there any more.

And if the election produces another set of surprises, then Kerry will be compelled to "de-conceed".

At that point, we'll be in legal terra incognita, and I, for one, would be happy to see it.

On the other hand, don't get your hopes up. It's a crapshoot right now, but every state is required to count the outstanding ballots so they can generate official totals by 12/12. I'm assuming that Bush won. If perchance Kerry emerges as the President-Elect, it will be a happy surprise for me.

--bkl

[Wapsie B]

78. Ahem.............

"like joining the Air National Guard and deciding you just don't want to be there any more."

I think the precedence for that has already been set.

[GoddessOfGuinness]

30. "Mark Weaver, a lawyer for Ohio Republicans...

predicted that election officials would throw out most of the ballots after determining the people who cast them were not eligible to vote."

Arrogant assholes, these rethugs........

[OldLeftieLawyer]

33. I have something to say to Mark Weaver

Fuck you.

We're not finished.

We're far from finished.

Take heart, friends.

It's not over.

(Remember in 2000, when Gore called Fuckface to withdraw his concession speech? Fuckface got pissy, and Gore said something like, "Well, you don't have to get snippy about it." That's how much legal weight concessions speeches have.)

I got this feeling................

[Baja Margie]

39. I hope to God

you guys are right. Please be right.

[Must_B_Free]

48. In 2000 %90 of the provisional ballots were accepted

[tkmorris]

38. Perhaps, but

according to this site:

http://www.sos.state.oh.us/sos/results/2004/gen/voterTurn.htm

there were only 150,000 or so provisional ballots issued on election day. I don't see any way to get the requisite votes out of that total. Unless that 150k figure is wrong. Is it?

[WheresWaldo]

41. this thread is killing me...

I really hope this news is true, gosh, right when I was begining to be able to deal with the disapointment, a nwe ray of hope. I'm not holding my breath, but it sounds from this thread that there might be a chance.

of course, the estimates list of provisional ballots showing 150,000 is at variance with the news in the thread, but I am the eternal optimist.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

44. If the majority of those provisionals were from Repub challenges...

[Dem2theMax]

40. Do we have Dem lawyers/counters there as well to monitor the count?

I'm wasting my time typing out "I don't trust the repukes."

[LibDemAlways]

45. Yea, They'll "count" them all right,

as they toss them into the circular file. I heard Greg Palast on Pacific Radio in LA this morning talking about these "provisional" ballots as the latest GOP trick to suppress the vote. Simply challenge minority voters when they show up and hand them a "provisional" ballot which is likely to get shit-canned. No one is the wiser and pesky Kerry voters are dealt with.

Also said that the crappiest old punchcard machines were reserved this year in Ohio by the rabid repuke SOS Blackwell for the minority districts to assure a huge number of under and overvotes that could be tossed. This is Florida 2000 redux, and Kerry didn't have the balls to fight it.

[iowa_democrat]

47. absentee ballot scam

we fell right into one of roves traps, I believe, with our massive absentee ballot initiative. They challenged thousands of them. Here in Johnson Co Iowa, dem stronhold, republicans had 6 people at the auditors office challenging absentee ballots. For any excuse. I spent 8 hours on election day contacting people, and my advice was to vote a provision ballot. Some will get counted, some will not. Many appeared to have been challenged because they were filed in the wrong precinct (early voting at the library for instance) All of those challenged votes are why Iowa hasn't been called yet. They start counting the accepted ballots today at noon.

I personally will never vote absentee again, unless there is no choice.

steve

[TalkingDog]

49. I hate to stomp on the happy party...

*edit: I meant to post this to the main thread...again, I'm new here, please be patient with my learning curve.


But if the Dark Side of the force actually reads this board, don't you think they'll use the information and speculation posted here to further their own agenda?

I'm not saying we can't discuss, conjecture or surmize. But know that the adage "Loose Lips Sinks Ships" might be a very timely idea.

I'm all for HOPE. The gods in their spheres know we need some right about now. But if this is a WAR, as many of you have declared, then consider that even if an idea isn't true, they can still use it against you.

I know I'm new here, but I think that gives me an emotional distance that some of you may not have. Passion is wonderful, it can accomplish great things. But to paraphrase a Greek philospher on the subject: Age and experience will always crush youth and enthusiasm.

In other words: The current admin is full of crafty old farts. Don't put anything past them, even hijacking your speculation to block any potential manuverings by Kerry.



"Be the change you want to see in the world"
Gandhi

[daydreamer]

50. you are right

[trogdor]

77. That is, if they take this thread seriously.

I think the general effect of the concession is to get Team Bush to chill.

[OldLeftieLawyer]

87. In their arrogance?

They won. What do they want with losers like us? They're hardly reading what we write here.

They've got us all spooked, though, don't they? Bastards.

There's an old Italian saying my Grandpop taught me:

"You spit up in the air, it lands in your face."

Those fuckers are heaving a lot of phlegm straight up. I wouldn't stand near them when it comes down.

Hell, I wouldn't stand near them anyway .................

[lizzieforkerry]

55. I had a LOT of friends in Ohio that voted

absentee because they were going different places in Ohio to help with GOTV.. Wouldn't it be ironic (and so sad I can't bear to think about it) that these votes won't be counted? What is the staus of Ohio absentee counting?

[Cronus Protagonist]

64. I was saying that back then - absentee ballots may not be counted

And I questioned the wisdom of voting in a ballot that can be lost, thrown away, invalidated and certainly not counted on voting day - givces the other side too many ways to steal.

I was pooh-poohed then, and I wish I had made more of a stink about it now.

Show your support for the president, wear a FUCK BUSH button!

http://brainbuttons.com/home.asp?stashid=13
(We usually ship same or next day by first class mail)

[hippiechick]

54. Then why did JK say that 'there's no way'

with the remaining number of ballots, that he could expect a different result than a loss to Cokeboy ?

AND, even if he DOES by some miraculous act of karma get the win, he'll have a GOP House and Senate to deal with - 2 years at least of 100% stifled legislation.


:hippie:

[DoYouEverWonder]

57. Even that would be better than 2 years of the Bush agenda

with nothing to stop him from doing whatever he wants.

[GinaMaria]

68. he could Veto

that would give him some chance to balance the budget, he could nominate justices that are centerist and appeal to both sides, and he could focus on the war.

[goodhue]

65. seems to me they should count all those votes soon

There are more votes to be counted than the margin of victory!

[Amigust]

66. Palast says "spoiled" and provisional ballots give it to Kerry

Story

[Reciprocity]

69. Kenneth Blackwell said ....

Kenneth Blackwell said that in the 2000 election, about 107,000 of the 123,518 provisional ballots cast were counted.
http://www.tri-cityherald.com/24hour/politics/election/v-election/story/1795100p-9660910c.html

[coreystone]

70. Comparing the %'s to the 175,000 (most recent estimates) would..

yield approximately 152,000 votes which MAY or may not count. If we take the "some" 136,000 vote difference in Ohio between Kerry and Bush; we split the 16,000 votes between Kerry and Bush and we get tie.

So! What would be the "estimated" % of the 152,000 that would be expected to go Kerry! What is the estimated % of "provisional" votes being contested by the Republicans, and the % being contested by the Democrats???

Just curious!

:-)

[George_S]

89. The "provisional" are paper, not machine

So if the machines were tampered with, the "provisional" will go in higher proportion to Kerry.

All we need to do is get close enough for a recount.

Any word on where it stands now?

[WatchWhatISay]

71. Look on your SOS website

How many provisional ballots did your state have?

I was a precinct alternate judge. Out of 728 voters, 2 were provisional. For the whole state of Texas there were 23,000 provisional votes. Why would Ohio have 150,000-250,000?

Something seems amiss.

[lakeguy]

74. challenges

[George_S]

90. By the GOP, why else would they take that to court?

They wanted to challenge.

[Wapsie B]

79. I was wondering about this.

The TV whores kept talking about Ohio and Florida still having votes to count yet even after Tuesday. All I can say is hmmmmmmmm.....

[osaMABUSh]

81. Why not have a November suprise?

Hell, we lived through 2000.

[Cookie wookie]

93. * only "won" Ohio by

136,486 by the count posted on CSPAN today.

Ohio 2796147-Bush
2659664-Kerry

Difference 136,483!!!!!!!!!

[halobeam]

96. Ohio Democratic Party today will NOT CONCEDE OHIO

http://www.ohiodems.org

The head of the Ohio Democratic Party said todayOhio Democrats are not
willing to concede the election. They are in the process of investigating
the innumerable incidents of vote fraud.

If you have an incident of voter fraud
report it
1. to them
2. to http://kerry.senate.gov
3. to http://www.groups.com/messages/ohiovotefraud
4. to http://www.indyvoter.org
5. to http://indymedia.org

Jeb Bush violated federal law in excluding black and not
Hispanic felons

The GOP has violated federal law in uncountable numbers of cases

the NH GOP and James Tobin have violated federal law in blocking
handicapped phone line access

[George_S]

97. Record Voter Turnout in Ohio Results in Democratic Gains

Wednesday, November 3, 2004


FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE

November 3, 2004

Record Voter Turnout in Ohio Results in Democratic Gains

COLUMBUS – Democrats gained elected offices throughout Ohio Tuesday night aided in part to the record Democratic turnout for John Kerry.

“The massive Get Out the Vote program in Ohio has helped Democrats gain seats in the Ohio Statehouse and courthouses throughout the state,” said Dennis White, Ohio Democratic Party Chair. “We are proud of the more than 170,000 volunteers who helped our candidates get elected.”

Despite losing in a close election, John Kerry set a record for a Democratic candidate in Ohio receiving 2,659,644 votes. That was a 21 percent increase over the amount received by Al Gore in 2000.

The outstanding turnout helped Lake County Democrats Lorraine Fende and Timothy Cassells win seats in the Ohio House of Representatives along with Brian Williams of Akron andJennifer Garrison of Marietta who upset the incumbent, former Lt. Gov. Nancy Hollister. The Democrats lost one incumbent.

At the county level, nearly every incumbent Democrat was re-elected and several new offices were picked up throughout the state.

At the County Commission level, Democrats took control of the Franklin County Commission when Mary Jo Kilroy defended her seat and Paula Brooks ousted incumbent Arlene Shoemaker. The two will work toward improving the county and its cooperative efforts with the city of Columbus.

Other winning Commission candidates include: Montgomery County’s Debbie Lieberman; Richland County’s Gary Utt, Monroe County incumbent Mark Forni won who was joined by Francis Block, Carroll County’s Catherine Stoker; Clark County’s David Hartley; Gallia County’s Fred Deal, Harrison County’s William Host, Lucas County’s Pete Gerkin; Mahoning County’s Anthony Traficanti and John A. McNally; Morgan County’s Rich Schiver; Putnam County’s Robert Riepenhoff; Seneca County’s David Gross and Ben Nutter; Summit County’s Nick Kostandaras; Trumbull County’s Paul Heltzel and Tuscarawas County’s Chris Abbhul beat an incumbent Republican.

Other county offices of note won by Democrats –Auglaize – Sheriff, Allen Solomon; Carroll – Sheriff, Dale R. Williams; Columbiana – Recorder, Craig Brown; Cuyahoga County– Common Pleas Judge, John Russo; Geagua County- Sheriff, Daniel McClelland; Hamilton County-Coronor, O’Dell Owens; Harrison County – Coroner, Isam Tabbah; Henry County – Recorder, Sara Myles; Jefferson – Prosecuting Attorney, Thomas Strauss; Lawrence County – Treasurer, Stephen Dale Burcham; Lucas County – Treasurer, Wade Kapszukiewicz; Recorder, Anita Lopez; Marion, Common Pleas, William R. Finnegan; Portage – Clerk of Courts, Linda Fank-Hausser, Treasurer, Bonnie Howell; Common Pleas Judge Joseph Giulitto; Putnam – Prosecuting Attorney, Gary L. Lammer; Ross – Clerk of Courts, Ty D. Hinton, Recorder- Gerald Byers; Stark – Auditor, Kim R. Perez; Court of Appeals Judge, Carla Moore; and Trumbull – Clerk of Courts, Karen Infante Allen.

-30-

Contact: Dan Trevas at [phone] or [e-mail]

[symphony]

98. 600 people voted, * got over 4,000 votes

in this one OH precinct :wtf:

http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/11/05/voting.problems.ap/index.html

COLUMBUS, Ohio (AP) -- An error with an electronic voting system gave President Bush 3,893 extra votes in suburban Columbus, elections officials said.

Franklin County's unofficial results had Bush receiving 4,258 votes to Democrat John Kerry's 260 votes in a precinct in Gahanna. Records show only 638 voters cast ballots in that precinct.

Bush actually received 365 votes in the precinct, Matthew Damschroder, director of the Franklin County Board of Elections, told The Columbus Dispatch.

State and county election officials did not immediately respond to requests by The Associated Press for more details about the voting system and its vendor, and whether the error, if repeated elsewhere in Ohio, could have affected the outcome.
Bush won the state by more than 136,000 votes, according to unofficial results, and Kerry conceded the election on Wednesday after acknowledging that 155,000 provisional ballots yet to be counted in Ohio would not change the result
The Secretary of State's Office said Friday it could not revise Bush's total until the county reported the error.
The Ohio glitch is among a handful of computer troubles that have emerged since Tuesday's elections.
In one North Carolina county, more than 4,500 votes were lost because officials mistakenly believed a computer that stored ballots electronically could hold more data than it did. And in San Francisco, a malfunction with custom voting software could delay efforts to declare the winners of four races for county supervisor.
In the Ohio precinct in question, the votes are recorded onto a cartridge. On one of the three machines at that precinct, a malfunction occurred in the recording process, Damschroder said. He could not explain how the malfunction occurred.
Damschroder said people who had seen poll results on the election board's Web site called to point out the discrepancy. The error would have been discovered when the official count for the election is performed later this month, he said.
The reader also recorded zero votes in a county commissioner race on the machine.
Workers checked the cartridge against memory banks in the voting machine and each showed that 115 people voted for Bush on that machine. With the other machines, the total for Bush in the precinct added up to 365 votes.
Meanwhile, in San Francisco, a glitch occurred with software designed for the city's new "ranked-choice voting," in which voters list their top three choices for municipal offices. If no candidate gets a majority of first-place votes outright, voters' second and third-place preferences are then distributed among candidates who weren't eliminated in the first round.
When the San Francisco Department of Elections tried a test run on Wednesday of the program that does the redistribution, some of the votes didn't get counted and skewed the results, director John Arntz said.
"All the information is there," Arntz said. "It's just not arriving the way it was supposed to."
A technician from the Omaha, Neb. company that designed the software, Election Systems & Software Inc., was working to diagnose and fix the problem