Moral Values A Significant Factor In 2004 Presidential Election

[JI7]

<The majority of voters who supported President Bush this election, cited moral values as a reason for their vote. That's over the economy and even the war in Iraq.

Tim Watson, pastor of the First Baptist church in Longview, says many Christians and non-Christians believe America's basic family values have been eroded. "There was just this frustration, this restlessness on the part of Christians to say we at least got to stand up and make our voice known. It's more of just trying to turn the tide of some very disheartening and negative things that we've seen over the last few years in our country."

Pastor Tim says it's not just Christians voting on morals and many who voted for President Bush did so to affect more than just the next 4 years. "I think also the potential appointment of new supreme court judges over the next 4 years was another motivating factor for people to get out and vote."

"It's time for Christians to stand up and be bold and really stand for what they believe and not be afraid," says Ruth McAfee.

In this election, both parties could not ignore the power of a vote for moral values. Three fourths of white Christian voters supported President Bush. Those white evangelicals represented about a fifth of all voters. According to the associated press, their top issue was moral values.>

http://www.kltv.com/Global/story.asp?S=2518603&nav=1TjDSjQE

[Liberal Veteran]

1. If denying people basic human rights, torturing prisoner, and killing civs

...is basic family values, I am glad to be a member of the radical immoral left.

[dddem]

21. But these people aren't "saved"

So it's really not a problem.

I'll say this, If I were Christ, I'd be really pissed at what people are doing in my name.

[Maat]

47. Amen, Liberal-Veteran.

n/t

[Furity]

60. Me, too

God, this has been a terrible day for us.

~Furity

p.s. I'm STILL trying to figure out why I am so IMMORAL.

[Tight_rope]

63. I'm with you....I no longer care who dies because of Bushs* war!

In fact, I said to my husband before the war that it would not end until American's have had enough of their fathers, mothers, brothers, sisters, sons and daughter die in the war. So I guess enough have not died yet. So I say to the Iraqi's kill on.

[flyingfysh]

2. 100,000 Iraqis have been killed

Yep, that's some moral values for you.

[mn9driver]

37. Iraqi dead don't count.

51 percent of american voters think it's just fine to kill civilians---as long as they're very far away and not American. Heck, killing Christians is OK, too---as long as it's in Africa. If it was in the ME, then it would be distressing--at least until the next news cycle.

[LivingInTheBubble]

72. "Moral values" is an euphemism for religious fundamentalism.

Hence why they dont care about dead iraqis.

[74dodgedart]

86. "Culture of Life" only applies to stem-cells and fetuses

In Bush world, it's quite alright to kill women, children and elderly.

[Jade Fox]

3. How's this for moral? Don't invade other people's countries and kill them!

Its all about sex. "Family Values" is a code for "we are not queer and we
don't screw around. We don't want you to either."

I don't understand these people!!

[SCRUBDASHRUB]

5. ..as if to say Democrats are immoral. Fuck them! I don't want your

support, Bush. I trust my bush more than you. Back off, monkey man!

[Karenina]

10. Einfach.

Sie spinnen. Check out all those paragons of virtue who were up in Clinton's face.

Nothing to understand. Sie spinnen.

[BeyondGeography]

16. For the "morals" crowd, it's about culture, not values

as your post indicates.

We need to align ourselves with socially conscious clergy of all faiths who share our approach to values (generosity and tolerance, for starters) and go straight at these hypocrites.

[Jade Fox]

19. Yes, progressive Christians need to start kicking ass.....

and taking Christianity back.

[wysi]

31. Erm...

... actually it's all about a public show of self-righteousness. Lots of them are 'queer and screw around'!

[Jade Fox]

66. Yes, the hypocracy is always evident...

They don't have to follow their own dictates as long as they claim to do
so publically while forcing others to follow them.

[Maat]

48. Ah, Jade Fox, but they do screw around...

the Pastor was always making passes at Mom when I was young. Of course, everyone was...but, that's another story...

[morcatknits]

52. Bingo!

You've hit the nail on the head. We hear so much about "values," but it is really just the one -- sex. It is ok for Falwell to lie to the little old ladies and steal their savings for "Liberty College," where they teach you how NOT to think, slaughtering living breathing children is a virtue, and science and knowledge are despised. But we've got values about sex, unless you are a priest who wants to have it with little boys, or maybe little girls for the evangelicals -- we can probably cut you a little slack, there.
morcatknits

[heidler1]

64. IMO family values are a facade that religious people of all persuasions

hide behind. Just because someone preaches morality or goes to church on Sunday does not prove that they are therefore moral. Because the human mind is designed to love this type of self deception does not mean its good.

What can be done about it? Maintain your pride in being virtuous for its own sake and remember "Democrats can be aware enough to see what goes around comes around right here on Earth."

Very likely the mental conflict within the pretense of Religion is probably keeping many people from a good nights sleep due to a bad headache.

[The Spirit of JFK]

4. Don't forget lying, cheating, stealing, drugs...and AWOL -nt-

[meti57b]

6. are "lie, cheat and steal" moral values?

[DeepModem Mom]

17. "Moral values" is a relative term, isn't it? For some...

it's sticking one's nose into the personal life of others, and imposing your idea of morality -- for others, it's concern for the well-being of others, and for the common, human good.

[rodeodance]

79. Everybody (major newspapers) leads with the finale.

".....Everybody (major newspapers) leads with the finale. "That's it," said Senator Kerry. A few hours later, President Bush said, "America has spoken, and I'm humbled by the trust and the confidence of my fellow citizens." He called for... unity: "A new term is a new opportunity to reach out to the whole nation."

In the just-about-final tally, the president got about 59 million votes, the most in history. As everybody details, Bush went for his base, particularly evangelicals. And in the other oft-reported factoid, exit polls showed that a plurality of voters (22 percent) were most concerned with "moral values"--80 percent of them went for Bush......."

http://slate.msn.com/id/2109181/

[Red_Viking]

7. Next stop, Salem Witch Trials

We're heading back to 1692, folks. Having visions and ratting out your neighbor for being in league with the devil. Guess I'll have to wear my scarlet "L," for low-down dirty freedom-hating Liberal.

Morals? If Jesus returned tomorrow, the first place he'd visit for an old-fashioned smiting is that shitty bunch at 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue. Next stop, all those fucking churches as big as shopping malls. Then the televangelists.

Morals? Give me a break. When we stop killing Iraqi children, let's talk.

Say hello to the Christian Taliban. They are now in charge of our lives.

RV

[Disturbed]

11. Values?

The anti-Christ Cult is determined to rule Amerika.

[bloom]

36. The Puritans also killed Quakers for being Quakers...

in Massachusetts - 1660 more or less.

The puritan mindset has a history of religious non-freedom.

[LostInAnomie]

8. We Dems are going to have a problem until...

... we either can find someone to bridge the gap like someone who is against abortion with the exception of rape, incest, or health of the mother.

Either that or we need to find someway to crush the fundies.

[Crowdance]

13. Lost, indeed. n/t

[religiousleft]

58. We can't bridge the gap by being what we are not

More dishonesty won't help. We need to articulate what we are. We also need to point out to the Religious Right that the Republican Party has not delivered on the issue of abortion and WILL NOT. These well meaning people have been taken for a ride by a party that has been able to pursue and pass radical tax-cuts, a pre-emptive war stratagy, a roll back of years of envronmental and labor law. The Republicans have been sucessful in all they have pursued except limiting abortion. It's becuase they don't intend to. Republican leadership reads the polls and know that the elecorate still supports a womans right to choose to terminate a pregancy. They pass an anti-abortion platform every convention with a wink to the real party faithful: Pro Business, Pro Emperialist, anti environment. They pursue radical agendas for the business community right over the backs of the democrats and then manage to blame us for stopping their "values" agenda. They have been pulling this bait and switch since Reagan and getting away with it.

[Furity]

62. We don't need to do that

Hey, the fundies have it all. Nutcase in the Whitehouse, friends in Congress, and I shudder to think about the Supreme Court. They could criminalize abortion tomorrow if they want. They won't do it because the backlash would be overwhelming. Good bye moral issue.

~Furity

[catzies]

65. I no longer think the backlash would be overwhelming. Yesterday proved it.

:cry: Yesterday was when EVERYONE was supposed to show up. If they didn't then, will they ever? It's late...

[atreides1]

98. I Like The Second Choice

We crush them and destroy them, but how do we do it without resorting to the use of violence?

[Imalittleteapot]

9. When asked what she liked about Bush,

a woman in my building told me that it was a moral issue. I asked her to explain. She said, "Bush is a Christian." I said that Kerry is a Christian. She said, "Oh, you don't really know. Kerry is not a Christian." I asked her if as a Christian did she approve of bombing children in Iraq. No answer. She rolled her f-ing eyes!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I almost lost it.

[PROGRESSIVE1]

12. puke

:grr:

[LiberalFighter]

53. How the hell did she know monkeyboy is a christian?

[Bridget Burke]

74. To most of these folks "Catholic" is not Christian.

The Catholic bishops & priests who got on the Bush "morals" bandwagon are viewed with contempt by the hardcore "Christians". Their usefulness is over.

Actually, Googling a bit on "Christian Reconstructionism"--the movement to remake the country to an Old Testament model (including slavery)--reveals many conflicts between the various politically active fundamentalist groups. Now that they've "won", they'll all begin squabbling over the spoils; there's no reason for them to remain united.

[KittyWampus]

14. If Exit Polls Were Wrong Showing Kerry Winning, Why Would They Be

correct about the issues that people were voting on?

[VegasWolf]

39. The exit polls were only wrong when there was no

incriminating paper trail. Methinks the exit polls
wer right and something else was wrong.

[libertad]

78. Until 2000, weren't the exit polls always right? I always remember

them being accurate in the past. Now they are implying that they are usually wrong. I think they are only wrong when there are election shenanigans going on.

[MasonJar]

15. I am glad that I do not share their moral values; they're grossly

immoral. Since Bush only sees things in black and white, good and evil, I dub him Evil.

[frogbison]

24. I go to church most Sundays

I consider myself a Christian. However, I don't see what is moral about our 1100 dead service people and the thousands more scarred both physically and emotionally.

I don't see what is moral about the 100,000 innocent Iraqis dead. This is an improvement over a brutal dictator?

I don't see what is moral about leaving thousands of Americans without adequate health care, or ignoring those who have to choose betweeen needed medications and food - or not able to afford either because of policies that favor the pharmaceutical companies.

I don't see what is moral about the thousands of Americans who have lost their jobs under the Bush administration (230,000 in Ohio alone) nor do I believe it moral to let thousands more slip below the poverty line.

Further, leaving our children with such a debt as we will, due to an uneccessary and preemptive war and tax cuts that benefit the wealthy, is certainly not a part of my definition of what is moral.

[lakeguy]

18. fuck moral values

:evilgrin:

most people who preach about moral values are the very ones who don't have any morals to speak of!

[JPace]

20. I was just listening to a guest on Air America

saying that Democrats have to lay claim to moral
values to woo the religious to our party. The repugs
have values framed in such a way that they have a
lock in this area. We have the true moral values,
feeding the hungry, see that medical care is available
to everyone, that everyone has a living wage, on and on.
We have to find a language for these values that brings
back the support that we need for our party.

[religiousleft]

32. Finding a language or reclaiming it

is a task all "liberals" or "progressives" need to take seriously. In the age of Elenore Roosevelt or even Kennedy/Johnson there was language for concern about equality, the plight of the poor and the justice for workers that elicited the traditions of Christianity and Judaism and drew on their power.

Now we find ourselves sitting on the sideline unable to touch the hearts of people and leaving their yearning for meaning in the hands of reactionaries who pander to their fears. Our people do indeed perish for lack of a vision.

[juliagoolia]

22. pandering divide and conquer

thats all folks.

Pander to them, and then you can divide the people against their own best interest on minor issues..

We needed to exploit our moral values of honesty, intergrity, charity, tolerance and love.

They used fear(which is what the evangelical ministers also use) and three issues to wrap christianity around a pile of baloney, and now they have sullied christianity and have sold christians a pile of baloney that is against their own self interest.

[spanone]

23. Moral Values my ASS. What a crock of shit.

The most immoral administration ever.

[fugue]

25. But it's not *real* Christianity!

[It's short, so you only get 2 paragraphs. ^_^]

One of my problems with Christianity is that so few Christians pay much heed to the words attributed to Jesus in the bible. It's a shame: they are some of the most enlightened, compassionate words in Western literature. Red-letter bibles are even published, and still numerous modern Christians seem to skip right over those words. I grant that there are grounds to question whether there was a historical person who actually uttered them in the way that the bible depicts, but Christians are supposed to believe that there was and that he did. Surely his words should be the foundation of their religion, but the more I look at modern Christianity, the less it seems to have to do with what even they claim the man from Nazareth said.

Of course, they do face the problem that the words were not framed for world in which modern Christians live. The situations used to clarify complex philosophical issues are now as opaque as the philosophical issues themselves. The bible shows Jesus skillfully framing great truths in first-century Jews' life experience, but with a different life experience, a different frame is needed. Jesus' parables need to be told with modern equivalents that resonate with modern people for today's Christians--and the rest of us--to appreciate their true import.

http://www.dissidentvoice.org/Nov2004/Moralis1103.htm

[luaneryder]

26. The examples of their moral values and

8's are immoral. I want nothing to do with them, their fucked up values or *.

[teryang]

27. The "moral values" idiots elect "murder inc."

This is what happens when you substitute so called faith for reason.

The same sort of people elected hitler. Well meaning stupid idiots.

[The_Casual_Observer]

28. And that fear of new taxes didn't hurt either, did it?

What horseshit they have been handing out today about this. Taking the upper road like they really care about shit like this. They want to kick arab ass for cheap oil and pay no taxes, and wrap a bible around the whole motherfucker. Fuck this.

[joycep]

29. We were talking about this at Church tonight

They keep talking about people of faith, people with values, regular church attendees, voting for Bush. It really rankles Christians who voted for Kerry as our entire church did. As far as I know we do not have a republican in our church.

[religiousleft]

34. Do we worship together?

[FlamingLiberal]

100. Unitarian?

If you have no repubs you must be Unitarian.

[Snellius]

30. When Clinton lied, no one died.

It's okay to lie to send your son to his death, as long as you prevent him from, god forbid, marrying another man.

[antonialee839]

33. They can take their "moral values" and

shove them. I'll take my values over theirs' any day of the week and twice on Sunday, the day when most of these hypocrites are sitting in a church pew. Oh dear God, we can't let the gay people get married, now on with the "Crusades". I think these people are truly moral midgets, and some day when they meet their maker, I hope he asks for an explanation as to why they would give Jackass George approval to continue with his bloody agenda. I will never understand this. These are people who do not care one iota for their fellow man, but they get all warm and squishy over a freaking petri dish.

[religiousleft]

38. Of course their maker will hold them accountable

but our job is to figure out how to impact their foolish decisions. Shouting won't help, name calling is a tactic only if you want to inflame a mob. If you are a person with values, and they are people with values, maybe you can persuade them to change their minds. If they are not human-or because of their "midget" status sub-human then maybe you need to start a crusade too.

[antonialee839]

42. Sorry, I don't believe you can have values

and approve a mindless war with a country that had nothing to do with anything. To me, a vote for Bush was a vote approving this war and the continuation of it. Lying a country into war: NOT MORAL.
Voting for the liar after it's been proved that we went under false pretenses: NOT MORAL.

[Hello_Kitty]

35. If white evangelicals make up a fifth of voters

Then the rest of *'s supporter have some 'splainin to do!

[Bo]

40. They also support the DEATH PENALTY

WACKOS

[RobinA]

41. I Think Dems Need To

seriously dissect this issue and figure out how to play it. I've had Bush supporters state to me that they don't agree with Bush on everything, but "at least he has integrity." You read the letters to the editor in the paper up until election day, and every Bush supporter says the same thing, Bush isn't always right, but at least he's honest. Kerry got very little, if any, bounce from the first debate, in which he looked like a President and the President looked retarded.

Now, we can scoff at this or we can try to figure out what's at work here. It may be delusional, but it just won them an election. I'm not advocating suddenly changing platform planks, because then I'd be voting Green. But it needs to be explored how they get their message out.

I mean, they just won in large part by convincing a majority that up is down. Think how far ahead WE would be if we can figure out how to effectively convince people that down is down.

[antonialee839]

43. I say next time we send our candidate out

in a white robe, beard and sandals, and that includes Hillary.
If they are so easily fooled by the Bush honesty act, I think we have a heck of a chance at pulling this off.

[tiedye]

105. Not Hilary

She's too famous. Let's put up Kucinich like we should have in the beginning. He's got family values! Hilary would be the same problem as Kerry. Flop flopper.

[VegasWolf]

46. I think the dems need to kick out our "leadership". Thank god

Daschle is gone, hopefully Terry Mc, Lieberman and others will
step aside for a new breed of democrats. The funny thing is that
the republicans have been saying all along what is wrong with
our party, you can't tell where we stand anymore. I saw one
person in this thread suggesting we go along with eliminating
aborton, as long as we keep the option for life of the mother.
The current leadership has made us RepublicansLite and why
vote Lite when you can have the real thing. I used to know
what this party stood for, but now I don't. How was kerry's
position on iraq different from chimps. We know that tax-breaks
for the rich ( the new trickle down theory ) don't stimulate the
economy and the economy after four years reflects this fact. people
lose their jobs but vote for bush so that gay people can't get
married. What I think we need is some leaders with balls.

Sorry guy's, I'm still disappointed!

[religiousleft]

56. I'm disappointed too

and wonder if a democrat of sufficient moral character could have credibly said during the debates that the administration LIED? The unfortunate perception of many voters must be that politicians who lie, profit off of their constituents misery and are in the pocket of "special interests" are so common that these moral failings are taken for granted. Certainly they are not the moral issues that evangelical voters respond to.

[Sterling]

77. It's a culture war not an election war, when dems figure that out.

We will probably still be fucked but at least we will understand why were being fucked.

We need to try to change the playing field between elections not just try to blend into conventional wisdom every 4 years.

[CTD]

44. Apparently more Americans fear gays than fear Osama

http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2004/pages/results/states/US/P/00/epolls.0.html

Scroll 3/4s of the way down and look at "MOST IMPORTANT ISSUE". We know that "Moral Values" = gay marriage, etc. 22% viewed this as their most important issue. That is more than said terrorism or the economy.

Simply put, more Americans fear gays than fear OBL.

[ShinPath]

45. moral values

I am afraid that on this issue we democrats are still paying for Monicagate...

[Bridget Burke]

75. "Monicagate" was paid for by all US taxpayers.

Millions of dollars were spent to find one human failing in a president who had powerful enemies.

Bush, Sr., had a mistress. Bush, Jr., may not be "up" to it by now; he's got lots of health problems.

Edited to add: Why do you regard a blowjob as more morally repugnant than allowing 3,000 people to die on US soil on 9/11, invading two countries & killing thousands more, & gutting any program that will benefit someone with a net worth under 1 million dollars?

[dqueue]

49. how...

How it is any portion of the electorate synonymizes "moral value" with the bush administration is beyond me. I simply can not grasp that notion at all, at all.

[MisterP]

50. there's an exprssion that goes:

"the more he talked of his integrity, the faster we counted our silverware." The more they have "moral values" in their mouths, the more likely they are to be amoral fiends: the Bible is full of examples of this and warnings against them. Pity their followers don't read the works they quote so selectively from.

[drscm]

51. Add Destroying the Environment, Squandering Public Funds for your

rich corporations and buddies...

Oh, hell, it would be easier to list a single positive value this administration believes in if it had one.

[ecoalex]

54. Ignorance the republican base

It is primary the Democratic Party finds a way to have a fair election. Until this, success will be denied.A legistative attempt will be foiled.They have congress, pwesidency, and da courts, and media in their favor. Add the AP computer voting scheme, and it's over folks.Get ready for 40 years of rethugs .

[steely]

55. Yeah, Live and let live, but do it my way. eom

[johnfunk]

57. Okay, here's the Primer: What "Moral Values" Really Means

Conserva-newspeak:
"Moral values"

Plain English translations:
1) "Hatred of gays"
2) "Hatred of liberals"
3) "Hatred of full access to all health care alternatives to pregnant women (but it's sure fine to execute the guilty and maybe even mock them before they are put to death)"
4) "Hatred of the Pope, because he is the Antichrist (but please, keep it quiet or we'll lose the Catholics)"
5) "Willingness to put GOP-driven wedge issues ahead of the interest of your faily, school, first responders and community"
6) "Arrogant, chauvinistic presumption of superiority"
7) "The new social engineering, i.e.letting the state stick their nose in the privacy of you, your companion, your family"

Any additions to the list?

ON EDIT: Spelling.

[yo-yo-ma]

59. nov 3 and suddenly it's "moral values"

It's interesting how "moral values" - not a term that was up there on the list of polling questions pre-election, suddenly emerges throughout the whole entire media as an explanation for the election. Sounds like a very effective "talking point" distributed by the RNC/Rove. The actual polling question asked was vague enough so that most people answered in the affirmative.

What troubles me is not simply how rapidly disseminated this message became, but how it implies that the other team, the dems, are not for moral value, that they are immoral or amoral. It gives an even larger cloak of legitimacy to the republicans. And it would have undermined the footing for contesting the election if the dems hadn't rolled belly up.

[PotatoBoy]

61. Yeah.. morals ??

Bush has none.. he's a low life sack of shit

[camero]

67. We should start protesting outside of churches

NO MORE BLOOD FOR CHRIST

[Hekate]

68. Beggars on American streets, American kids with rickets...

...doesn't charity begin at home?

Oh, wait, if Uncle Sam used our tax money to help them out, that would be "welfare" and that would be wrong.

Besides, they'd have to know the meaning of "caritas" to begin with.

Hekate
she's back

[ixion]

69. oh! the hypocrisy is staggering

really. Moral values? Give me a break. These people are barbarians and they talk about morals. Seriously, that's a brain buster. :crazy:

[jobycom]

70. War is peace, hate is love, all hail Big Brother.

At least they'll all share a nice warm afterlife with their hero, and Usama, so they can have their perpetual enemy forever.

[cubsfan forever]

71. Horsehit! n/t

Professor 2

[bill]

73. Ignorance, Fear, and Bigotry are moral values?

[leftchick]

76. and Arrogance, Imperialism and Torture as well

the moral party morons...

[Mr_Spock]

80. It's them freaks in Jesusland again...

"Killing is good if a Christian does the killin'"

[SillyGoose]

81. Denigrating the military service of a decorated war veteran

in order to get elected is an example of their so-called moral values as is failure to take responsibility for their actions and lying to the world. I'm glad I don't embrace those values.

The Republican party does not have alot to proud of in the wake of this election.

[ellie]

82. I think it's time for

some freeway blogging here in Ohio.

I was thinking of signs like:

No Job? Oh Well!
At least gays can't marry!

No health care? Oh well!
At least gays can't marry!

It won't help, but it will make me feel a whole helluva lot better.

[TexasSissy]

84. I think it'd be better to leave a specific issue out of it, since

other moral decisions came into play, like abortion.

Maybe:

No job?
Oh well, you voted for it!

No health care?
Oh well, you voted for it?

[Neshanic]

83. Issue must be framed as Born Agains, their beliefs and goals.

They are running the show.

All the people who are not saved and do not believe the Bible as absolute truth that voted because of "moral values" and still thinking themselves Christian are not in the "club".

They have a big surprise coming.

Oh and Catholics and every other religion possible, you are Satanists. It's the ugly little truth that Falwell and his gang keep hidden, but the gang knows....wink, wink.

The coming Theocracy. Not kidding.

[Terran]

85. It's hypocrisy and foolishness like this

that really make me think this nation is doomed. It's sad, but I don't see this changing any time soon, and by the time it does, it will be too late.

[brentspeak]

87. Can bibles be used to pay the mortgage? Can handguns be used as dinner?

Jesus never advocated walking blindly over a cliff.

[Triana]

88. SO a sea of poverty and wars based on LIES...

...are their moral values?! Apparently so!

NOOOOOOOOO THANKS!

What a bunch of fucked up, stupid people.

[Neshanic]

89. Where did the "moral values" tag come from? Just thin air?

Everyone that voted for Kerry was labeled wanting in the "moral values" department the day after the election. Do you think that phrase just popped out of nowhere?

It came directly from the Born Agains. Straight from Fallwell to Rove to the media. The media then happily lapped it up.

How does it feel to be considered to have no "moral values". Now that they have a firm grip on their base, it's time to separate us more. Want to know what it is like to be gay and the feelings with it? Now you know, you "moral values" deficient people.

This is the wheat from the chaff everyone. The Liberal East/West coast God-hating Blue heathens against the Reds. He won, now to finish it off, spread the word, call all the media, it was the "Moral Values" that won.

Get it yet?

[tiedye]

103. conveniently Qualitative

and impossible to measure. Having morals means putting yourself in someone elses shoes.
Oh don't we all feel we have great morals.

[CBHagman]

90. They don't read their Bibles.

If you've actually read the Scriptures, you know that practicing your faith, whether you're a Christian or a Jew, does not mean prancing around telling everyone how moral you are. It's about repentance, making amends, social justice, living in harmony with others as much as possible, and so forth. It's actually very demanding, but there's nothing in there about giving more money to the wealthy or starting wars or holding people in jail without access to a lawyer.

There's a sick, twisted, dysfunctional version of Christianity abroad in America, and unfortunately it's been around for decades. The Jimmy Carters and Jim Wallises of the country don't practice this form of Christianity -- if it can even be called Christianity -- but the media doesn't pay that much attention to the Carters and Wallises.

We need to take our country back morally, but not the way the Bushites would have it.

[Politicub]

91. I wouldn't position the red states' values as "moral values"

They are more akin to values of control and values that dismiss rational thought. That's why Bush won. He waged a successful campaign built on fear. It's ironic that the people that will be harmed most by his caustic agenda are the very same ones who voted for him.

I have no sympathy for outsourcing of red america's jobs now. I can't believe I was naive enough to believe that Kerry's strong economic agenda would win them over. Screw them.

[Neshanic]

92. You don't get it. You have been judged and not even realized it.

[Politicub]

93. What do you mean?

I don't understand your post...

:shrug:

[tiedye]

104. he means

we are all Negroes now. Apartheid. Its the perfect third Reich family versus the undesirables. That'd be us.

[Suspicious]

94. Welcome to the 9th Level of Hell,

fellow "morally challenged" progressives...the ride is just beginning.

Please keep your critical thinking skills tucked away at all times to avoid psychological injury.

:eyes:

[EndElectoral]

95. If about Moral Values the Repubs wouldn't have won!! It was about immoral

values!

[OnceAndFutureTruth]

96. Here is a take on this issue from a different perspective: Tom Wolfe's

My new mantra is, "Every time you call them dumb, a new RW voter is born." In that vein, I present for your reading pleasure:

<snip>
'The liberal elite hasn't got a clue'

Monday November 1, 2004
The Guardian

Tom Wolfe casts his gaze across America at this election time, with eyes that change mood in a nanosecond, with a flicker. For the most part, they exude an amused elegance befitting the hallmark white suit and dandy-ish two-tone brogues. But then the look suddenly changes, to become scalpel-sharp, mischievous, seizing upon some detail. It is a metamorphosis which begins to explain, perhaps, how this softly-spoken, immaculately-mannered gentleman journalist from the South can write with such voracity about the grime and sediment which inhabits American society and the human soul.

<snip>
As he notes, the America which votes tomorrow is a country riven over morality like never before. On the flip side of the culture of ubiquitous sex is that of puritan Christianity, as harnessed in no small part by Bush. "Yes, there is this puritanism," says Wolfe, "and I suppose we are talking here about what you might call the religious right. But I don't think these people are left or right, they are just religious, and if you are religious, you observe certain strictures on sexual activity - you are against the mainstream, morally speaking. And I do have sympathy with them, yes, though I am not religious. I am simply in awe of it all; the openness of sex. In the 60s they talked about a sexual revolution, but it has become a sexual carnival."

<snip>
"Here is an example of the situation in America," he says: "Tina Brown wrote in her column that she was at a dinner where a group of media heavyweights were discussing, during dessert, what they could do to stop Bush. Then a waiter announces that he is from the suburbs, and will vote for Bush. And ... Tina's reaction is: 'How can we persuade these people not to vote for Bush?' I draw the opposite lesson: that Tina and her circle in the media do not have a clue about the rest of the United States. You are considered twisted and retarded if you support Bush in this election. I have never come across a candidate who is so reviled. Reagan was sniggered it, but this is personal, real hatred.

and here is where you can read the entire thing:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uselections2004/story/0,13918,1340525,00.html

[LiberalFighter]

97. This erosion of family values is the fault of people like Watson

They aren't doing their job in teaching the proper values to their parishioners.

OR

The parishioners aren't listening to him and his colleagues.

[Sophree]

99. I beg to differ.

Moral values were obviously NOT a consideration.

[USA_1]

101. MV's

Glad to see that people are FINALLY talking about this important manner. Big Ed Schultz's show was almost all about the matter today and yesterday.

Republicans claim to be highly moral and vote on the basis of politicians who proclaim themselves as such. We all know that is bushfrigginshit. It sells in politics just like sex sells in advertising.

Now, if only the Democrats would realize it and stop being so afraid of talking up the way you readers are doing on this forum today, there is a good chance of winning back the Congress, the White House, and the state legislatures.

This is what I wrote on this board before Election Day. Perhaps if you had gotten the message across to America, the election may have turned out differently. Let's see more talk like what you see above before EVERY election. Democrats need to fight like Republicans. When you do election results will be FAR diferent.

[tiedye]

102. I voted for moral values too

and I voted for that softy Kerry because he hadn't killed as many people as Bush.

Some people's moral bottom line is not allowing gay marriage. But, when soldiers force prisoners to perform sodomy, that's all in the game.

Its an American conspiracy based on sexual humiliation like abu grhaib. Humiliate the minorities into submission.

Makes people here feel powerful to humiliate gays. Its a terrible thing. Ponder these words of Hitler I grabbed...

"The National Government will regard it as its first and foremost duty to revive in the nation the spirit of unity and cooperation. It will
preserve and defend those basic principles on which our nation has been built. It regards Christianity as the foundation of our national morality, and the family as the basis of national life." Adolph Hitler, My New World Order, Proclamation to the German Nation at Berlin, February 1, 1933

[RevolutionStartsNow]

106. Where did we go so wrong?

I was brought up with values by 2 of the most liberal people you will meet, and those values are: tolerance, forgiveness, pacifism, helping the helpless, loving my neighbor, and standing up to oppression and hatred.

WE are the party of values. They are the party of greed, intolerance and senseless murder. When did hating homosexuals become a value?

We are way way off course if this is how we define "values". It breaks my heart.

[USA_1]

107. "No Longer a Christian"

http://www.commondreams.org/views04/1025-25.htm


Don't know if this article was presented above but it's worth a good look.

Liberal views reflect TRUE Christian values.

Conservative religious hypocrites are AntiChrists.