Bush: Will Reform Social Security System Now

[denverbill]

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - President Bush (news - web sites) said on Thursday he planned to start work immediately on reforming America's ailing Social Security (news - web sites) retirement system and predicted a long slog ahead.

"We will start on Social Security now. We will start bringing together those in Congress who agree with my assessment that we need to work together," he said in his first news conference after the bitterly contested presidential election.

Bush said reforming Social Security would be a priority during his second term and he predicted it would be very tough and costly.

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=578&e=2&u=/nm/20041104/ts_nm/bush_social_security_dc

Aww. Isn't that special. Social security taxes are going up.

[LauraT28]

1. Kiss it goodbye!!!! It's done!

[SharonAnn]

19. Gosh, my "three legged stool" only had one leg left and now it'll be

removed too.

Leg 1 - Company pension (they're underfunded and being reduced, companies are going out of business and ending their retirement plans, most didn't have COLA so effective amounts reduced over time)

Leg 2 - Private savings (my 401-K is now a 201-K)

Leg 3 - Social Security (a few years from "full benefits" at age 66, they want to defund it).

And, the only real reason to privatize it is that Bush's cronies want to have the "management fees" associated with "managing" the accounts. You know, fees for helping people invest in companies like Enron.

[William Seger]

42. Two reasons, really

Pouring huge amounts of cash into the stock market while the real value of the existing equity isn't really going up will create a bubble like we've never seen. Hell, just passing the bill, before it even takes effect, will create an unbelievable buying frenzy, so when people actually start contributing to their accounts, they'll already be buying stock at ripoff prices. And when the "savvy" traders figure it's time to cash out, it'll trigger a collapse like we've never seen. After that, the Great Depression will probably be called the Lesser Depression.

It'll be a disaster for the stock market, a disaster for the economy, and a total disaster for working people, who will not only lose whatever that put into it, but also have nothing to fall back on.

The rich, who have nothing to fear and everything to gain from a depression, will get much richer while the working people who actually create their wealth will get the holy shit beat out of them. It's nothing but a huge wealth transfer scam perpetrated by the super greedy.

[jdj]

66. will it still be paycheck deducted?

If I don't want to put my retirement in the stock market will I be forced to? I have never had a 401k because I never wanted to be investing in a company when I did not know what I was paying for, and, well, this just sickens me.

[RaleighNCDUer]

81. Wrong on one point. The rich do have something to fear.

Us.

[calimary]

104. No, they will let those fabulous financial wizards from Enron handle

accounts like these now. What a good idea, 'eh?

[surfermaw]

113. You are right

This is the first step in doing away with Social Security, and another thing when he says ownership society, he means you are on your own, with all the safety nets put in to stop a depression will be gone, he would have had a great depression without Medicare and safety nets. Many a hospital is staying open off of the older Americans with medicare..

But I think there will be a depression within 18 months, as soon as China decides they don't won't to buy the deficit any more,however that might be what it will take to wake up the ignorant R/R's in the south.

[kysrsoze]

48. Does that mean all the money I've contributed is now no longer mine?

Great.

[demnan]

2. Hey baby boomers

Bush says F*CK YOU! Hey Mom, move to Canada if you want prescription drugs, what do you think this is, socialism?

[nibbana]

59. Vast majoity of Seniors Voted for Bush..Reaping and Sowing?

kick back my fellow Dems and let the victors have their spoils..
Admit that you lie an ultra conservative American and relax...
Acknowledge and move on..

[jdj]

67. Bush has said it won't affect this generation of seniors

it will be us who will be fucked by this. He's not going to fuck his base, they might not vote repuke next time. He's gonna fuck people who will pay for it after he's dead and gone.

[Skidmore]

130. * and his buddies are preceeding to screw everyone so

don't feel picked on.

[Rose Siding]

3. privatiaztion

"Bush had proposed setting aside a portion of Social Security taxes to create individual accounts that workers could invest in stocks and bonds."

That's what happens when you make a failed businessman president.

[denverbill]

9. Well, there is NO WAY he can do it without increasing SS taxes. Period.

And won't it be special to watch freepers when that happens? He's going to increase their taxes by 15% but then allow them to invest that money in stocks/bonds, which is something they could already be doing by their own damned selves. It's basically the govt forcing you to save and invest your own money.

[jdj]

69. gotta love that party of small govt.

[strategery blunder]

72. Ooooh, I'll buy bonds

Because when the Chinese, the Japanese, and the Europeans make an economic war upon us by refusing to finance our deficit, interest rates are going through the roof.

[denverbill]

78. Don't buy American bonds then.

Interest rates are going higher. But when interest rates go up, existing bond values. If you paid $1000 for a bond paying 3% interest rates, and interest rates go to 6%, who the hell would pay you $1000 for that bond?

If you're gonna buy bonds, buy them from some fiscally responsible country. That precludes the US.

[strategery blunder]

85. I have the "hold until maturity outlook"

But I guess you're right, because the US will probably default on their bonds.:(

[alfredo]

12. He has dropped reference to a partial privatization.

He has been saying that he will privatize social security.

[mulethree]

101. whats wrong with the current IRA's and 401K's for that?

They are private, owned, retirement savings.

Fix social security by removing the ?87K? income cap on contributions. It would be like the medicare tax where you keep on paying no matter how much income you're making.

And then, if you're going to keep capital gains and dividend income taxes below the taxes on earned income, make people pay the 15% SocSec on that income.

[calimary]

106. Let's let everybody gamble in the stock market, 'eh?

Wonder what'll happen when there's another downturn and all their gambling goes down the drain - with their alleged retirement. Of course, by then, bush will be long gone. He'll have done it the "IGMFU" way - "I got mine - F-U!"

[denverbill]

109. Hey, he'll have his 'Presidential pension' too.

Notice how President's, Senators, and Congressmen all manage to have enormous fat pension checks lined up for THEIR retirements, at our expense.

They make at least double to 10 times what most Americans make. Give them a f'ing 401K with a 3% match and let them save for retirement like the rest of the country.

Instead, Bush will get $400K/year for his 8 years 'work', plus security details, living expenses, etc.

[lovedems]

4. Is it reaching out when you only call on those who agree with you?

I know he said agree that we need to work together but after the last 4 years that is code word for I will only work with those who agree with me.

The continued lowering of the bar for the most powerful position in the world. What a disgrace.

[SeattleDem]

21. exactly! so much for uniting, once again

that quote burned me up too. Lip service yesterday to working with those of us who voted for Kerry. Back to his partisan rancor today.

[hatrack]

86. Any Republican reaching out to me will draw back a bloody stump

Fuck them, one and all, with the Chimp-in-Chief at the head of the list.

[Robert Oak]

5. see ya social safety net of any kind nice dream n/t

[ewagner]

6. GOP "CODE" again

Reform = privatize.....

[The_Casual_Observer]

7. Since todays workers pay the freight for todays old people

the system will collapse. This is what all the lies, wars, gays, terrorists etc. were all about. This is the ultimate prize for these dirty motherfuckers. Thanks red state pinheads.

[Wright Patman]

8. If they raise payroll taxes

any higher, even fewer jobs will be created. It will probably even cause layoffs.

Especially among small businesses, whom the GOP is always touting as their base even as it caters to the big corps who can afford the $100K contributions.

Expanding the payroll base so as to make the tax less regressive is a non-starter considering the composition of the Congress. Those who make more than $87K do not pay any tax on the amount they make over that limit. It is proportional up to that amount and then turns regressive.

[denverbill]

11. I guarantee you they will raise payroll taxes. Guaranteed.

Reagan did it too. It fucks over ordinary people and doesn't hardly touch the elites.

[bigluckyfeet]

54. It like it's time to start writing letters

I wrote the white house a not so nice letter last year and my 2 Repuke senators.People had better hurry up and speak out.

[Career Prole]

10. I never get tired of repeating this because I want everyone to know...

Shrub's first Treasury Secretary Paul O'Neill, and his "longtime friend" Alan Greenspan pleaded with the chimp and cheney to get social security done before the tax cuts, because they both thought that was a "legacy-making" use of only part of what was then a huge surplus. They predicted it would take ten years and a trillion dollars to make a seamless transition.
Chimp and cheney blew them off and said the tax cuts would generate a bigger surplus with which they could work.
O'Neill got fired...Greenspan seems to have conveniently forgotten all about it...and now they're going to try to do it in the face of a huge deficit. What idiots.

[classof56]

13. And my social security income is being cut.

This will do wonders for the economy. Now I gotta figure out what I can cut from my budget so I can afford insurance, food, taxes, my mortgage payment, utilities, etc., on my greatly reduced income.

Thanks, all who voted for Bush. I only hope you fare better than I and my fellow social security recipients are going to in the days and years ahead. Yeah, right!

Tired Old Cynic

[FlaGranny]

36. I had to drop insurance altogether.

I've got seven months to go to become eligible for Medicare. Insurance for me, alone, would have been $1000 a month.

I guess the Republicans would say it was all my fault. After all, I worked hard my entire life beginning when I graduated high school until this year, a total of 47 years. I'm one of those lazy folks who don't deserve insurance.

[classof56]

46. This is outrageous!

And it's NOT your fault! I know you know that in your heart, but it's easy to let them make us feel that way, huh? They seem to want to punish us for living good productive lives, doing our part to make this nation work, contributing to the economy, paying our taxes, raising families, being decent human beings. The bottom line is, Bush, his cronies and all the big corporations he protects and helps make richer--none of them care ONE WHIT about us or anything that happens to us caused by their evil, greedy, self-serving policies. We tried to get them out of there and it didn't work. Now all we can do is take solace within ourselves that we have once again done the right thing and we will survive!

You are an excellent person, deserving of better than you are getting. Hang in there--the next seven months will go fast, let us just hope Medicare remains intact in the future. I went through a similar situation--extremely high medical insurance premiums until I got on Medicare. It does get better!

Best wishes!

[FlaGranny]

132. Thanks,

I'm fine with this really. I don't dwell on it. I'm an optimist and I'm basically healthy except for osteoarthritis and mild multiple sclerosis. I haven't seen a doctor in nearly two years. Sometimes I think its safer to NOT go to the doctor. :-)

[jdj]

71. have you looked at getting a temporary policy?

if you go to http://www.ehealthinsurance.com , you can get a quote, it will probably be really high, but I have one just in case catastrophic things happen, it's for six months, then you can renew it only if you don't use it.

it might be worth looking into...

edit: here's a quote from that site for a 64 year old:

Fortis Insurance
Deductible - $2,500
Coinsurance - 20%
Office Visit: You pay 20% after deductible
A.M. Best Rating
as of 03/04/2004: A-

6 months
$163.80
monthly

I pay about $50 a month for mine, it's an 80/20 policy with a $2000 deductible.

you just put in your zip code and then go from there.

[FlaGranny]

131. Sure, I've tried - I have pre-existing conditions.

No one will cover me. They're for people with absolutely no problems. I go to the doctor rarely, but that doesn't make any difference. I might have to go and that makes me ineligible. I could have had continued coverage from my Cobra for between 800 and 1000 a month.

[Samantha]

123. Wait until you are 65 and see that Medicare has turned into a standard HMO

the premiums for which are equivalent to market prices. Try paying for your medical insurance out of your reduced social security benefits and see if you have enough left over to buy food. If you do, tell me how because I see myself at that age in the same process seniors where in pre Lyndon Johnson.

[sherilocks]

14. It will take $2 trillion dollars to

keep SS solvent, if part of the money collected goes to private accounts. Where will this money come from? The deficit? Higher pay-roll taxes? Lower benefits? Raise the age of retirement?

[denverbill]

17. Higher taxes, guaranteed, and a gradual reduction in benefits.

It's the only possible way to do it, unless they intend to borrow several trillion dollars. However, they only borrow money to give tax cuts to billionaires, not to help your average retiree.

[BeatleBoot]

22. All of the above.

[grumpy old fart]

15. REFORM = ABOLISH

Love all this GOP code stuff. The boneheads who elected this chimp eat this shit up though, and think it tastes good....

[one_true_leroy]

16. This is gonna make Enron look like a lunch money bully.

He's wasting no time, is he?

Edit: I guess he knows he's got exactly four years before the wolves catch up with him.

[Beetwasher]

18. It's Just Too Big A Pot of Money For Them To Keep Their Filthy Paws Off It

America, land of the sucker. Thank you sir! May I have Another!

[Malva Zebrina]

20. Long slog--yeah it's hard work

combine with another hike in Medicare premiums I bet, as they try to starve out the elderly folk who are using government resources in the last year of their life using up the whole of the money in SS.

[VLC98]

23. Clueless person here. Could someone tell me...

when you say payroll tax, is it FICA? Also, if privatization goes ahead, what happens to the payments you've made?

[denverbill]

24. Answers.

Yes, payroll tax is FICA.

And the payments you've already made aren't saved anywhere. They are used to pay retiree benefits. The excess funds are just used to pay other expenses.

[VLC98]

30. Thank you denverbill

Do you know about the Thrift Savings Plan that the military is doing and if it's a sneaky step toward total privatization? I'm very worried about it.

[trogdor]

70. The TSP is a quasi-401K scheme.

Only it's the Wal*Mart version.

1. There are no employer matches, but the contributions are tax-deferred. Uncle Sam is a cheapskate.

2. You only get to shift your money from one fund to another four times a year, so if the stock market crashes and you're heavily invested in stocks, you're SOL. You get to sit day after day and watch your money evaporate into the ether while people like me can shift funds DAILY. I know somebody at my former Reserve unit who works for the government on weekdays and lost his shirt during the 2001-2 bear market.

3. The maximum contribution is WAY less than the 20% of base pay (I think) I can squirrel away.

If you qualify for an IRA, I'd do that before putting any of my money into a fund with those kind of restrictions.

[VLC98]

90. Thanks for the info.

My husband only has $65 a month going to the TSP and he retires in about 8 months, so that will come to an end. We started an IRA with $2,000 about 8 years ago, but haven't added to it because a) we couldn't afford to and b)it doesn't seem to have done too well. Current market value is $3,013....what do you think? All of our savings go into a HIMMA because we're going to need it when we buy a house next year. Any free advice for us?

[CrispyQ]

95. So that statement of your FICA account that you receive every 2 years

...or so is total bullshit? I figured as much anyway, but now I feel really good knowing that the $500 or so a month I was going to receive (cough, cough) is going to go to Bushco's rich buddies. I'm sure they need it & will put it to good use. Fuckers.

The best thing you can do in George W Bush's America is prepare yourself to live on Walmart wages & get yourself in the best physical condition you possibly can & hope you aren't in an accident.

[Blue Wally]

117. No......

The Social Security Statement shows your earnings and contributions over your lifetime and is the basis for cacluating your benfits. Social security used to be "off budget" and there was a theoretical "trust fund" which was invested in government bonds (i.e. the gummint was borrowing from the "trust fund"). Our own Democratic congressmen (back when we controlled Congress) dumped it into the overall budget (to hide the size of the deficit). Essentially, Social Security is a "Ponzi scheme" with income from current contributors used to pay out bernefits to current retirees. As people live longer and baby boomers retire, fewer and fewer workers will be paying in. One of two things needs to happen: 1. More money goes in through higher FICA taxes or transfers from the general revenue; or 2. Benefits need to be cut or retirement age raised.

Kerry would have been faced with the same problem.

[AZCat]

25. Paul Krugman was talking about this on Al Franken's show yesterday

He sounded really despondent, and had nothing good to say about Bush's "reform". I don't think any of us can count on reliable Social Security or health care for the rest of our lives, along with clean drinking water and avoiding a permanent rolling war that eats the lives of our young.

[jdj]

74. I think that sentence is worthy of being on a billboard.

"I don't think any of us can count on reliable Social Security or health care for the rest of our lives, along with clean drinking water and avoiding a permanent rolling war that eats the lives of our young."

so true.

[0007]

26. Tom DeLay can push the bill through in the middle of the night again

If we didn't wake up after the election rip off the first time, they can run with DeLay again, 'eh?

[Yavin4]

27. Don't Worry Jesus Will Make Up The Difference

We no longer need SS because we have Jesus security.

[jdj]

75. Yes, welcome to the United States of Jesus.

Get your stigmata here.

[OneBlueSky]

28. what he means is "pillaging" the Social Security System . . .

just like he did to that multi-billion dollar retirement system in Texas . . . gave it to his friends in the private sector to "manage" . . . and all the money disappeared . . . same shit, different day . . .

[walkon]

29. They will undo everything

from Roosevelt to the present on social policy. Count on it.

[apnu]

37. yes and guess what?

they are also gonna do a 1929 on us too. mark my words.

[denverbill]

39. If you meant FDR, you shoulda meant Teddy Roosevelt.

Hell, they want to abolish anti-trust laws, child labor laws, and damned near any law that benefits ordinary people against the wealthy or against corporate interests.

[freestyle]

31. What's next? Ice Floes

These people really want you dead once you stop being economically useful.

[tokenlib]

32. So are we going to allow this without a fight??

Can we get enough people to wake up? To mobilize? The GOP succeeded in equating our warnings as those of Chicken Little in the minds of the masses. But now the reality of the threat is exposed. There must be something we can do....

Perhaps join the Committee to Protect Social Security and Medicare??
www.ncpssm.org We should all be open to suggestions.

Let's fight back..

[William Seger]

51. This is far more serious than the Iraqi war

... because it will have a much larger negative effect. You'd think there should be proportionally larger demonstrations, wouldn't you?

But that's not likely to happen with the "media" lulling everyone to sleep with comforting words like "reform" and belittling anyone who dares to speak against it.

[Fovea]

33. We will start bringing together those in Congress who agree

There you have it.

If you agree, I want to hear from you, otherwise, Cheney You!

This is the definitive policy non sequitur from Generalissimo Cokespoon.

[tokenlib]

35. And the opposition needs to bring together those who disagree..

If we can have a REAL opposition party. It is time for backbone.

[jpak]

34. jpak to Chimp

KEEP YOUR FUCKING MONKEY HANDS OFF MY SOCIAL SECURITY

AND YOU WANT MY TRUST?

FUCK YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[llmart]

55. From a baby boomer to Bush.......

KEEP YOUR FUCKING HANDS OFF MY SOCIAL SECURITY!

(I can't believe how much I've used that f word lately:)

[Ganja Ninja]

38. Why not have Bush revamp Social Security?

He's done such a great job with everything else he's touched.
I really just don't care anymore. The idiots who voted for this guy and the people who were too lazy to get up off their asses and vote him out will deserve what's coming. I'm almost willing to give up my social security just to see them take it in the ass!

[halobeam]

73. careful what you ask for

I feel the same way. I KNOW family members who are Bushies.... they will cry, and I will feel sorry for their stupidity and stubbornness, but I will say, I warned you and this is what you voted for.

[denverbill]

79. There's going to be a lot of that going around. And welcome to DU!!

[jdj]

80. Let's Have a Contest!

Who will get to be the first one to say that to their families and friends??

I have been over and over the nightmare scenarios in my head the last few days, including the drafting of my two young nephews.

I hope when the shit starts hitting the fan that the admins pin a thread at the top so people can relate their "this is what you voted for" bushslap stories.

[sadiesworld]

40. And just think...

a few weeks ago the media said Kerry was scaremongering when he said that * wanted to privatize SS. :crazy:

[Jasper 91]

68. Bush denied having ever said that he was going to privatise SS .n/t

[zbdent]

41. Like any of his other "reforms"

it will be totally trashed. Not one spec left.

I told a freeptard that when there's something wrong, you fix the problem, not just throw out everything.

"Hmm, the oil's a bit low. Time to buy a new car . . ."

[William Seger]

56. "Conservatives" are NEVER interested in "fixing problems"

Someone mentioned this insight to me about 20 years ago (Reagan era), and it's proved to be absolutely true: "conservatives" don't "fix" problems; they just exploit them to advance their real agenda.

[hunter]

43. A desperate act...

... to prop up the great pyramid scheme that our economy has become.

It will make the fall all that much harder.

What I don't understand is this -- isn't investing Social Security money into private businesses like this a kind of socialism? Hell, we could just avoid all the fuss and "nationalize" these businesses directly. Why bother with the middlemen?

[Barrett808]

44. The final round of asset-stripping begins

Like the S&L heist, but on a larger scale. Roll in Enron and BCCI, and it will still be the biggest inside job ever.

[LibDemAlways]

45. Imagine how happy all the idiot chimp voters

are going to be when grandma and grandpa's benfits are cut and THEY become responsible for housing/feeding/and providing medical care for their elderly parents. Dumbshit stupid asses will whine and complain, and still vote "R" next time around.

[Lugnut]

47. Great.

This was one of my biggest fears. I've been working and re-working my budget to figure out where to put my whopping $25.00 SS increase come January. It's been a tossup between gas for my car, food and my prescriptions. :grr:

[justgamma]

49. Ltte from fundie in local paper

called SS a ponzi scam and a communist program. Some rightie must have been preaching this shit. Elrusho, perhaps?

[savistocate]

52. AS IF no one in their ConChrstn circle needs their SS?

I did not get a picture of these people having big retirement
bucks or could back up parents&or grandparents who would lose. ????????

[scarface2004]

50. bushspeak translated "now i will destroy soc sec....

you effing assholes, ha ha ha!!"

[Dinger]

53. Reform, That's A Cute Word

[bhunt70]

57. how will this affect my wife who gets disability?

[denverbill]

58. I wouldn't worry about it anytime soon.

When they pass this, it will likely mean a slow decrease in retirement benefits, and I doubt it would impact disability as much. I'm just guessing, but it does seem more geared towards changes in retirement.

[Lugnut]

60. Good question

I am 59 years old and have been disabled for 10 years with spinal cord injury. It's not just the elderly who will suffer.

[Nikepallas]

61. Start eatting jello and stuff money into mattresses.

I thought my Grandparents and others were being overdramatic but now I see myself doing that.

[strategery blunder]

77. Stuffing money into mattresses is a bad idea

When other countries call in our debt, we'll only be able to respond by printing more money. Can you say hyperinflation?

Stuffing gold under your mattress might be a safer bet.

[Nikepallas]

91. Thanks for the Tip?!!!

:yourock:

[Tracer]

62. From what I've read ...

... Social Security is solvent until 2042.

That means there is 38 years to make it solvent past that year.

Why the bum's rush now? The answer of course, is that * Ñ like his fellow crony Grover Norquist Ñ wants to drown the government in a bathtub and to hell with caring a whit about their fellow citizens.

[denverbill]

65. You could extend that indefinitely by raising the limit on contributions.

It's just been arbitrarily cut off at $80,000 or so, so people who make $10,000,000 per year only pay SS on their first $80K in income. So raise or eliminate that limit and problem is solved, totally, forever.

Alternatively, you could set a surcharge on the very highest incomes (say over $1 million/year). Even 1 or 2% SS surcharge on those extremely large incomes would produce enough to keep SS solvent forever.

God forbid the wealthiest members of society ever be required to sacrifice anything for the good of the country though.

[tsuki]

100. 2042?

Only if the Chimp and his good ole boys don't get their hands on it.

[Carolinian]

63. Yes, waste no time in raiding the social security funds.

Who elected this stupid shit anyway?

[d_b]

64. Fucked.

[Kitsune]

76. You know, I knew I would never see a dime of my social security.

But it still hurts to see it die, y'know?

[Politicub]

82. Reform = Eliminate

Probably the best program that we have going to combat poverty among seniors and the disabled is on the verge of being eliminated.

We have become a nation of Neanderthals, or our true nature has finally been revealed.

I weep for my country.

[denverbill]

83. Hey freepers. How come none of you has posted this article over there?

I'd be very interested in how you boys feel about Bush's 'costly' reform of Social Security.

[Cinletharwi]

84. "who agree with my assessment" - TRANSLATION:

"You're either with us, or you're with the terrrists/against us."

No room for dissenting opinions, move along.

51% of this country has no problem denying the other 49% equal representation.

[Delphinus]

87. OK ...

is there a way for us to get out of paying ss tax?

[paulk]

88. Will BushCo be able to get this through the Senate?

This whole thing has been flying under the radar - there was never any serious discussion during the campaign - outside of Kerry asking where the 2 trillion bucks was going to come from...

Once it's out on the table, it will be a lot harder to sell - even with a Republican controlled Senate. The Dems have bashed the Repubs so many times with SS, I'm surprised Bush thinks he has the "political capital" (like he said today) to get this passed.

[tsuki]

102. Anyone who speaks out knows that Bushco

will unlease his rabid dog, Rove-r on them.

[denverbill]

105. You got that right.

The only way to stop this is to convince ordinary Republicans, but good luck with that. How can you expect anyone that thinks Saddam was involved in 9-11 and who thinks the last 4 years have been wonderful is beyond hope of convincing before this gets rammed through.

[paulk]

111. Not every Repub. thinks that - and once they do the math

their Senators will hear about it.

Because the math doesn't add up. It didn't add up in 2000, when Bush first proposed it, and it doesn't add up now. This is Krugman's
2 minus 1 equals 5.

Bush will try to pass this first thing - trumpeting his mandate. Will the Dems stand up to him? Will the Repub. Senators from Blue states stand up to him?

This is going to be the first test on how well Bush's 2nd term will go. Fire off a letter to Allard about what a bad idea this is. I'm going to.

[donkeyotay]

89. the last time they "fixed" social security it was very COSTLY

Back in the early 80s - and Greenspan was one of the architects of the FIX. They raised the withholding rates (from what, I don't recall and haven't been able to find, but it was a big hike) to 15.2 percent, split between employer and employee. This was a big deal at the time, but they said it was necessary in order to build up a SURPLUS so that the fund would be solvent for the boomers.

Now those evil fucks have stolen our social security and given it to Bush's base, the Haves and Have Mores.

Working class republicans are the stupidest people on this planet.

[montanaliberaldem]

92. There is nothing wrong with Social Security!

This is long but worth reading, I think. I just spent over 2 hours listening to an economics professor from Eastern Washington University, Prof. Douglass Orr, explain the truth about Social Security and who benefits from the myth that it will cease to exist in about 30-40 years. When this administration talks about the Social Security Trust Fund disappearing, what that really means is that the excess paid into the fund above what is paid out each year (right now we are sitting at about 270% above annual expenditures) will be down to 0. There will be no surplus, but with a payroll tax increase of 1% at that time - not now - Social Security will be a pay as you go system, as it was until the mid 70's. Keep in mind that all the "Baby Boomers" will likely be dead. Social Security is efficient and successful - overhead is only 7/10 of 1%. It was a complicated lecture but basically, as I have always suspected, it is business in general and specific sectors of the business world that will benefit. And benefit in a huge way! A mandatory requirement for workers to invest a percentage of their wages will give stock brokers millions of new investors and generate, according to experts, about $80 billion in earnings each year - to the brokers, of course, not to the investors. The Stock Market will boom. The 10% of Americans who own 90% of the stock will benefit. Businesses will no longer have pay SS payroll taxes. Workers who work for wages will be the sole contributors to their retirement. Business will have no responsibility or obligation in helping fund the retirement of their employees and they have been working toward this end since the birth of Social Security. The bait-and-switch of the defined benefit pension plan to the "portable" 401K defined contribution plan was a huge boon for corporations. Things like this make me absolutely nuts!

[denverbill]

97. Welcome to DU and thanks for the good post.

I would think being the lone liberal in Montana would be enough to drive me nuts:).

I'd be willing to take your Prof's word since he makes a living studying this stuff. However, in my opinion we'd be a lot better off just raising the cap on taxable wages and/or instituting a SS tax on extremely high income people (say a 1% tax on incomes over $1 million). However, I'm surprised to hear all it would take would be a 1% increase after the surplus is gone. That's interesting.

[montanaliberaldem]

129. Thank you for the kind welcome.

This site has been my salvation for the past 3 years and I haven't felt so alone on the fringe. Actually there are a few of us - liberal and democrat - in Montana and we managed to elect a democrat governor who chose a republican lieutenant governor (whom I have always respected). There may be some hope for this state yet. I do feel we as a state should apologize for giving the country Senator Conrad Burns and Marc Racicot. Watch Racicot - he is very smooth and presentable, but not to be trusted. With regard to the professor who spoke here, he used the government's own forecasts and numbers - he just explained what they actually show rather than what this administration "says" they show.

[alarimer]

114. This info needs to get out

I believe that this plan of Bushco to privatize SS is just to enrich cronies on Wall Street who stand to benefit from fees for investment, etc. So could I invest my SS contributions in, say, real estate, instead of the stock market? I guess it depends on what the plan is. Oh, and what happens to the part of SS the employer pays into? Who gets that?

[library_max]

93. Kiss Social Security goodbye.

Social Security taxes my ass. They're going to privatize it. They've wanted to kill it all this time, and now nobody can stop them. They'll play a shell game to keep their own moderates in line, but the bottom line is, it'll be gone within a decade, replaced by individual accounts that people pay for (or don't) entirely out of their own pockets - in other words, no national system at all. And I say that as a 46 year old who is starting to save his money.

[trueblew]

94. President Snake Oil... n/t

[Anarcho-Socialist]

96. Since it's costly, we can rest assured that they'll find a way to pass

the cost on to the poorest Americans and the middle class.

[Tight_rope]

98. Those old folks who voted for moral values...will now have to eat

their moral values because their goes your Social Security check!

[sonicx]

99. oh well. at least i'm protected from TERRA.

[n2mark]

103. You seniors

who voted for the shrub, good luck.

[teryang]

107. The hundreds of billions stolen from the lockbox already

...aren't enough. Also needs to give the plunge protection team some relief, they're exhausted trying to keep the stock markets afloat. Time to ripoff another generation.

The cookie jar is open and the brainwashed lemmings have their wallets wide open for the picking.

[VegasWolf]

108. code: reform = thanks all rednecks who voted for me -

I can see them going home and telling their wives, that
yuk, yuk, I'mn following W's plan and sinking all our
money into the stock market.

[Ilsa]

110. Well, that did it. I'm turning to

white collar crime to get my retirement. I'm gonna get screwed any other way I do it, so I better start planning. ;) ;) ;)

[LastLiberal in PalmSprings]

112. Which stocks will we be allowed to buy?

A couple of years ago I heard someone ask a "privatize" supporter in the administration if it would be possible to buy speculative stocks. He was told, "No, only certain companies would be approved for investment."

O.k., boys and girls, let's think about that for a minute:

1. As a company, how do you get on the list? You make large contributions to the people who can put you there, and you do everything in your power to ensure they stay in power.

2. As an investor, once you are invested in a "government approved" stock, you have a vested interest in how that stock performs. Therefore you will support candidates who promise to make your stock go up via tax cuts, government handouts and no-bid contracts. Since they can make or break a company, these politicians will effectively have control of the company.

So in addition to being a huge giveaway to the brokerage houses, privatization lets the Repugs stay in power, and gives them power over the companies who keep them there.

But by God we won't have to see two men kissing and holding hands. And that is what powered this election.

[V Lee]

115. Buy enough land to grow food, plant veggies, get solar power,

and pray you don't get sick. That's what we're doing.

Oh, and buy assault weapons (thanks Bush!). If they come for my veggies they're going down!!!

[rfkrocks]

116. The "New Deal" replaced by the "GOP DEAL"-

Middle Class,poor class,working class lube up

[Art_from_Ark]

119. The New Deal is being replaced by the Raw Deal

[librechik]

118. what a relief! That means it will never get done!

Shrub's promise means nothing. They want to keep the issue alive for the next few Repukkke candidates, that's all.

[The River]

120. Time for Plan "B"

Guess it's time to marry for money.
Faking love is only slightly less painful
than faking food, clothing and shelter.

[young_at_heart]

121. Who cares about Social Security.........we have such wonderful "values"

Obviously, having those important Bush Values is far more important to the American people than a secure future.

[LynnTheDem]

122. "But the cost of doing nothing ... is much greater than "

Now WHY does that sound SO DAMN FAMILIAR???

Something to do with IRAQ, wasn't it???

ROTFL!!!

[Catt03]

124. Yeah...22 billion is the cost

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/11/04/business/04econ.html

The new economic agenda will focus on two big goals. One is expected to aim for a fundamental overhaul of the income tax, very likely in the direction of a system that lessens even further the taxation of investment income; the other to push for a partial privatization of Social Security that could eventually reduce costs but require borrowing more than $2 trillion over the next two decades.

And we are so in debt now.....

After four years of rapidly rising budget deficits, the Treasury announced on Wednesday morning that the government will borrow $147 billion in the first three months of 2005 - a new quarterly record, but one that is likely to be eclipsed before that year is out.

and we are relying on foreign countries to pay the debt but

Foreign investors have thus far been willing to finance the United States' borrowing, but most of that has come from central banks of Asian nations rather than private investors. If foreign appetite for Treasury securities wanes, interest rates would have to rise to make such investments attractive enough to keep money flowing into this country.

"The U.S. bond markets are likely to react very badly,'' said Nariman Behravesh, chief economist at Global Insight, an economic forecasting company, "as investors begin to worry about the impact of these large deficits on U.S. interest rates, the U.S. current account deficit and the dollar."

I say....Oh well....

[joytomme]

125. Bush says today he'll reform Social Security

George Bush jabbers first, then someone does some thinking for him and he has to backtrack.

His first after-election off-the-cuff jabber was to claim that his initiatives would be put through and if the Dems didn't agree to them they'd be left behind. Not so fast. The last time he told people if they didn't agree he'd go it alone, the world said, Screw you. And he got into a mess in Iraq.

Two big things stand in the way of his plan to privatize Social Security without opposition. The first is that his own party is not firmly behind him on anything.That will become apparent now that the election is over. He has big problems in the GOP...some call it a Civil War within the party. The second thing that will throw a monkey wrench into his unilateral plan to privitize Social Security is that there are big elections coming up in the Senate in 2006. A lot of Republicans have a lot of placating to do in their constituencies and Bush acting like a dictator is a bad political stance to take in a divided nation. He does not have all Republican Congressional votes in his back pocket. I have no doubt wiser heads prevailed today and he was advised of that fact.

Ratfuck Diary (http://ratfuckdiary.blogspot.com)

[Straight Shooter]

126. Well, I do appreciate the cooler heads prevailing, BUT

I don't trust bush and I don't trust his "faith-based, we're shifting realities on you before you can catch up" groupthink of enablers.

It's all IGMFU, as the above poster mentioned.

What is the Number 1 threat to a marriage? Money problems! Wait for the divorces to skyrocket when bush's policies start to hit home. And who makes money from divorces? Lawyers! It's time to start pointing out that bush does not practice what he preaches.

My mantra to bush, from now until he collapses from the weight of his lies: Practice What You Preach

And FWIW, screw this word "reform" or even "privatization." Make it a word that conjures images in people's minds. It is the Enronization of Social Security.

[Only Me]

127. Most people I know live pay day to payday, including me and he

expects the poor and middle class me to have cash to invest in the stock markets? Stocks are a little iffy to put your future money on.
I am so against this..he had our money and he waisted it! Reform now, take away your security later. First step in... YOU PEOPLE ARE ON YOU OWN!!!

[progressivedancer]

128. Huh?????

Maybe it won't be so bad, yeah right MY GAY ASIAN ASS!!!!!!!
I really don't know where the fuck he is going to go with social security but whatever hope that people have that he will actually be fair and not biased is shallow as he had really hinted in privitizing it.

[July]

133. Bush-style "unity":

"We will start bringing together those in Congress who agree with my assessment that we need to work together."

The sentence in itself is almost meaninglessly circular; in Bush-speak, it seems to say, "We'll talk to those who agree with us."

[VegasWolf]

134. "Social security is for girle-men!", Arnold.

[ZR2]

135. It is my understanding

That this will allow people the option of investing a portion of the money they pay into Social Security to be invested in stocks or bonds.

If you don't like that idea, then fine, don't take the option....

[montanaliberaldem]

136. I don't think it will be an option, but a requirement.

Keep in mind that every percentage you invest for yourself is unmatched by your employer. You will fund more and more of your retirement and your employer will contribute less and less. With the uncertainty of the stock market, I'd rather take my chances with social security. This move to privatize this program benefits businesses, stock brokers, and those whose wealth is derived from stock ownership. Social Security now collects a surplus of almost 300% above annual expenditures. The surplus may disappear in 30-40 years, but then SS - with a 1% increase at that time - will be a pay as you go program that will be able to meet its commitment to retirees. That is based on the governments own numbers and forecasts. Social Security protects people from "longevity risk" or living beyond your ability to earn money. You will never outlive SS, but you could easily outlive your investment fund. They don't want to fix Social Security; they want it gone so business no longer are forced to contribute to employees' retirement and that money can be paid to it shareholders. Hell, most of them already have gotten rid of any benefits to hourly workers. It's all about profitability.