LAT: Dems Map Different Strategy (Red State nominee in 2008)

[DeepModem Mom]

THE NATION
Democrats Map Out a Different Strategy
The 2008 nominee must appeal to red states, analysts say. Hillary Clinton may not qualify.

By Peter Wallsten and Nick Anderson, Times Staff Writers


WASHINGTON — Reeling from their party's loss in the presidential election, some key Democratic financiers and strategists say they have learned a clear lesson: Next time around, no Northeasterners need apply.

The blue-state party needs a face from a red state if it is going to expand beyond its base on the two coasts and preserve its hold on the Upper Midwest, where its long-standing appeal to voters has become tenuous, these insiders say.

Their voices — if they become ascendant as the Democratic Party undertakes a round of soul-searching after Tuesday's losses by presidential nominee John F. Kerry and key Senate candidates — could dampen prospects for Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton (D-N.Y.), who has been frequently mentioned as a prominent White House contender in 2008.

The concerns about the party's direction also could lift lesser-knowns such as Govs. Mark R. Warner of Virginia and Michael F. Easley of North Carolina, who are widely seen as effective communicators of a populist Democratic message in Republican-leaning states....

***

The standard-bearer should be a face from the South or the Midwest, he added, naming Sen. John Edwards of North Carolina, this year's vice presidential nominee, or Sen. Evan Bayh of Indiana as presidential possibilities....


http://www.latimes.com/news/politics/2004/la-na-dems6nov06,0,680680.story?coll=la-home-headlines

[ithacan]

1. left populist!

NOT a DLC type -- DLC is the opposite of populist.

Someone like Jim Hightower.

Hillary would be absolutely wrong; and she's my senator.

[Sara Beverley]

32. If we cave any further we might as well join them!

Hell no!! It won't make a bit of difference to this evanglical nitwits.

[pfitz59]

45. Hightower for president ..he'd be a good-un!

Note of caution: Scorched earth ahead!

[TrueAmerican]

2. We are going for someone from the Blue States

and ram it down those redneck throats. Fuck the rednecks.

[QC]

14. Yeah, that attitude has worked so well for us in the past.

:eyes:

[mitchtv]

44. I for one will stay home If we get offered a DINO like Bayh

and many more like me. What a presription for disaster

[MattBaggins]

55. Well this southerners only need apply won't work either

As a New Yorker, if I am told that I need not apply, I may have to reconsider my place in this party.

[Owlet]

3. Well, now, that's exactly what's wrong, isn't it

"some key Democratic financiers and strategists". Ah, yes..the very people who worked so hard to convince us that Howard Dean wasn't 'electible". Those very members of the Establishment that can't see that they are not just part of the problem: they ARE the problem. Hello, Terry MacAuliffe? I'm talking to you.

Well, here's the lesson I've learned from this election: support the candidate who wears the least expensive suit.

[jmcgowanjm]

13. We have hours, days, maybe weeks left

When you hear people saying, ‘take a deep breath, we will
pull through this’, ‘we need to work harder’, ‘we need
to organize’—no. We will not. It’s
over.

Unless electronic vote tabulation is history, and
these companies are driven out of business, it’s their
country. Not ours.

Nobody knows, and no one will ever know, what the actual
vote count was.

http://www.globalresearch.ca/articles/CHI411B.html

BTW-War is raging in Iraq now.
At least 2 troops/hour are dying.

We're in Hell.
Prepare for casualties.
Oil $65/bbl by JesusDay.

[Neshanic]

New Fox show. "My big fat obnoxious candidate"

[DeepModem Mom]

6. lol!

[Tandalayo_Scheisskopf]

4. I thought one part of the American Promise...

Was that any kid from anywhere could grow up to be president.

That is anywhere. As in anywhere.

[THUNDER HANDS]

17. yes anyone* can grow up to be president

* - not including blacks, gays, Northeasterns, West coasters, women, anyone in a blue state, people with poofy hair, people with indepentent wives, people who can speak clearly, intelligent people.

[Cocoa]

5. Dennis Kucinich!

Sadly, Dick Gephardt is probably done with electoral politics. :-(

But Dennis has a lot of good years ahead of him, and his state is kind of important.

[mikehiggins]

11. Dennis is a great guy

but his politics are too extreme for lots of folks, even in the NorthEast.

In addition, he simply does not appear Presidential on tv and that is not good.

I think Edwards is a good bet, if he follows the path of Nixon and Reagan, spending the next four years cementing his support within the Party by helping Dems at all levels. I'd like to see him working with Rep. Weiner in NYC next year in the Mayoral election. And most especially, whoever runs against Pataki for NY governor.

The only good thing to come from the "no Northeasterner" will be if it keeps Giuliani from making a run at the WHite House. However, I think the "experts" have a point, especially with Senator Clinton. If there is anyplace less popular with the Great MidWaste than New York, I can't imagine it. There might as well be a sign on the WHite House lawn saying New Yorkers Need Not Apply. ;^)

I'm still for Wes Clark, again.

[Cocoa]

12. Kucinich is way more mainstream than Bush

including in the red states. I'm not kidding. Dennis is only extreme if you're looking at it from the corporate elite point of view, if you look at it from the voters' perspective he's right there with us.

Maybe that's what the dem party should start doing, eh? Looking at the voters?

[sandnsea]

42. Where do you live?

How old are you? Do you know any Republicans at all? Reaganism has swept through this country and most people believe all the health care, trial lawyer, tax cut, welfare queen, bullshit. If the left refuses to understand this, we may as well fold it all up and quit. There is a way to turn this around, but you have to admit the problem is real and that the far left is in the 5% minority before we can all get together and do it.

[Cocoa]

46. I live in Katherine Harris's district

I'm 36. I know some Republicans, but they're older and wealthy, and they're not going to stop being republicans.

But I also know some younger Bush voters that aren't necessarily Republicans. I don't know what they think about the issues, actually I doubt they know what they think about those issues.

But regardless of anecdotal evidence, I wouldn't be so sure about what you assert. I have heard about public opinion polls that show broad support for single-payer health care, and very little support for free trade, specifically NAFTA. The main proponents of status quo in health care, and free trade, are the elites, not the people.

[BootinUp]

18. I say nay to Edwards

JMHO, but I don't think Edwards would be all that strong even with the Southern background. You know who I like. ;)

[NNguyenMD]

53. Here's an idea...Al Gore

I read a post from an earlier thread and I'm convinced that if Al Gore chose to run in the 2008 primary I'd give him a clean slate to work off of. He's obviously a different man than we was in 2000. Since getting screwed by EVERYONE during the Florida debacle I'm certain he won't be the poll watching candidate having his campaign manager micromanage his every move.

He endorsed Howard Dean, that ought to tell you something about the lessons he's learned in the last 4 years, that its better to stand on principle AND be proud and VOCAL of where you stand.

I felt sad hearing about how he fought for 36 days despite being grossly being abandoned by his own party and the rest of the left, even getting screwed by Lieberman. He's going to be the candidate who doesn't give a shit about what "some people" think of his personality or attitude. I think if Gore runs in 2008 you'll get a Howard Dean with the red state mentality that we've all been looking for.

On a side note, for a VP pick we realyl ought to get someone who doesn't want to be president. Not that Edwards was bad, but we need an attack dog to viciously go after the target. And I think the best way to accomplish that is to get someone who really couldn't give a shit whether he'll run for president or not. Thats why Dick Cheney works so well for the retarded chimp.

[mccormack98]

57. Seconded.

Gore is the answer.

[trogdor]

51. IOKIYAR

Reagan was from California. Rudy would do just fine because he's not a DEMOCRAT from New York.

Wesley Clark in '08!

[eridani]

56. What, in particular, is extreme about Kucinich?

A real problem with Dems is that we keep on getting suckered into using the Republican words. Stop it, already!

[Charlie Brown]

61. No candidate who supports gay marriage

(or drug legalization) has a chance of winning. I support both of these, but the majority of Americans don't. Shame, really.

[eridani]

69. This is changing, and the way to help it change is--

--to invoke the American values of fairness and common sense.

More people favor civil unions than oppose them. The reason this is the case is because of ongoing activism. The youngest age groups are in favor of gay marriage, so we shouldn't back off on it--things are only going to go more in our favor.

http://www.thetaskforce.org/downloads/RecentStateMarch2004.pdf

People are overwhelmingly in favor of medical marijuana--

http://www.norml.org/index.cfm?Group_ID=3392

There is also a lot of concern about the failure of the War on Some Drugs.

http://www.norml.org/index.cfm?Group_ID=4280

[The Zanti Regent]

29. Dennis has no chance

Rove would take the Department of Peach thing and wring Dennis' neck with it.

Dennis would lose all 50 states, just like Dean would have.

THe fact is the ONLY Democrat who can get elected President is a Southerner. That's a fact! My original choice was Bob Graham and if he had been the nominee this time, he WOULD have beated Bush, especially if he had Clark on the ticket.

Even Clark would have whipped Bush's ass.

[foo_bar]

54. Department of Peach?

Will they handle the impeachment?

[WI_DEM]

7. The strategy is no different than ever

In effect they want the party to move to the right. "No Northeasterners apply" isn't it about time southerners figure out the civil war is long over? We in the east have no problem voting for southerners. Also, what about 2000? we nominated a southerner from a "RED" state, Al Gore and he didn't win a single southern state either. We had an attractive RED state candidate for VP in 2004 and he didn't bring in a single RED state--even in his own state the ticket lost by 300,000 votes or more. I predict this is what will happen in '08 the DLC gets it's way and nominates a RED state Bush-lite and we still don't win a single RED state and also turn off the base so much that we lose a few more BLUE states as well.

[DeepModem Mom]

16. Good points! Maybe our leaders need to study "The Emerging Democratic...

Majority," and act on it. The Red-state fundies may not be the future. We have changing demographics, and a new Gen Y, enormous in number, that could work in our favor if we looked to the future instead of the past. We win on the issues already, and if we stress young, if we stress Hispanic, if we effectively stress issues that resonate with people who live in the modern world, we might begin to own the future -- given honest elections.

And it does sound like we need new leadership, or at least some new blood.

[Prodemsouth]

30. Many Hispanics are also good Catholics. They are social conservative

reliance on heavy turnout of young voters does not work we have seen that twice now and each of those times the USA was at war with a third world nation!!!

[RPM]

8. Edwards?!?!?!?!?!

Nothing against the guy, but he did squat for us - didnt help us carry his home state.

Lukewarm to him, at best

[codegreen]

9. McAuliffe and the DLC must go or this party'll die. just that simple.

[Lorien]

15. Indeed. I won't bother being involved

if they are left in control. They'll play the same stategy with the same results. Three times and they've learned NOTHING!

I've always been against a third party, but a third party may be the only way if we can't change party leadership.:-(

[carnie_sf]

22. Me too

I'm voting green until some real democrats take over the party. Jim Hightower for Pres. 2008

[funnymanpants]

34. Bingo

My thoughts exactly.

First, to those people who think Rove would take Kucinich apart, we need to stop giving Rove too much power. He barley won the election for Bush, despite Bush being a war time president. We can win on our own terms in spite of Rove. (I am not saying Kucinich would or would not be a good candidte.)

The Democratic party does not need the southern states to win. If we get the popular vote, most likely we will win. It usually works this way.

Let's work on our own strategy our own policies rather than on manipulative strategies that backfire on us and end up helping the Rupubs.

[goclark]

72. Then put a Bubba as head of the DNC

And a Bubba at the head of the ticket.
And a Bubba for Vice President.

And we still will lose.

Why? Because they will steal the election again!!!!!


We must fix this or not go on.

[Catt03]

10. Someone from the South will then run against

Rudy Guiliani and he is from New York. So it will be reversed right?
Or there maybe Arnold, (if they change the Constitution, which they will if they want)?

Both of these guys could win the South and they surely are not family value candidates, per the definition.

I wish Democrats were shut up about this. They are panicking and it is embarrassing.

[SoCalDem]

19. Jesus H. Christ.. Have they learned NOTHING?

Why not send an engraved announcement to every repube in the country..

THIS is what makes me C R A Z Y ... The Dems seem to feel the need to "share" everything..

It's no wonder the repubes have a counter-attack for every move we make..


It's 4 days since the disaster, and they are already telegraphing their "strategery" for the next one??

Hows about getting some computer scientists, mathematicians, a few friendly journalists, and some of those TEN THOUSAND lawyers together in a room somewhere, and try to figure out where GeorgiePoo got all those votes he claims to have?

[against all enemies]

23. They could only run Jesus H. Christ if he were from the south.

If he was from a northern state they would paint him as a "Liberal". And rumor has it that he "knew" prostitutes. They would vote against him on moral grounds. Jesus would lose to Bush, not religious enough.

[Darth_Kitten]

25. LOL Jesus H. Christ would lose to the "real" christian repub candidate...

Sorry. ;)

[janx]

20. Typical knee-jerk reaction from "democratic strategists"--

It doesn't matter one damn *where* a candidate is from; it matters a great deal whether s/he can connect with people.

This ignorant provincialism and capitulation to right-wing ideology is really getting on my nerves. It is aiding and abetting the divisions in the country--exactly what the right wing wants.

[FloridaPat]

21. Maybe if the Dems just show some guts in between election years

they wouldn't have to spend so much time picking candidates. Maybe if they made sure the vote count was legitimate, they wouldn't have to spend much time picking cnadidates. Maybe if the Dems had plans, purpose, ideas and very loud mouths. They won the last two elections. What's to pick!

[ReadTomPaine]

74. Thank you. The 'silver bullet' theory for killing the GOP werewolf...

... is spin induced fantasy. Too many DLC strategists are literally admiring friends of the GOP they are supposed to be opposing tooth and nail.

RTP

[Darth_Kitten]

24. WRONGGGGGG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

:eyes: Solidify your base. It shouldn't be a question of whether or not your base is going to come out for you on election day.

Don't limit your options. Honestly. Shouldn't matter where the candidate is from.

[Bush was AWOL]

26. I like the candidates their mentioning

but I'm not sure why they need to announce their strategy.

[Francine Frensky]

27. some thoughts on Evan Bayh

If you've never seen him, Bayh is very handsome, probably more so than edwards...

He was governor of Indiana for several years, and his father was a long-time politician in Indiana.

He's very moderate, but I am a huge fan of his as his favorite professor at Indiana University was also my favorite. A business school prof. who teaches a class on general economic topics (cocktail party discussion economics), who really preaches the nuts and bolts of THE democratic economic theory. It's the basic idea that the middle class is what separates us from the economy of Mexico.... that protecting the environment is good in the long run, that government should do certain basic things..

I loved that class and, without explicitly saying this is "democratic ideas on economics" I think it offered common sense economic ideas that appeal to everyone.

Anyway, even though he's probably way too moderate for most on this board, I think he would make a great candidate, maybe a very solid VP.

[Dems Will Win]

38. Bayh is an awful speaker

He's so mild, his voice barely is above a whisper.

He's out.

Edwards is better than Warner, but can he beat Hillary--who will definitely run and crush Edwards?

We're stuck with Hillary in 2008, who would likely lose unless there is a Depression and a Draft (which of course is very probable).

So who do we have in 2012?

Edwards? (He'll still look 15 years younger than he is, which would probably help)

Edwards/Obama in 2012 after the end of civilization as we know it!

As Al Gore said: SIGH!

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

28. Oh bullshit. Even Clinton would not have won were Perot not in the race

John Kerry was as good a candidate as it gets for our general platform. I'd still run with him.

[sweetladybug]

31. Al Gore was from a southern state. It won't make any difference

who or where a Democrat candidate lives, he WILL NOT win a Presidential Election. The Republicans own the new media, radio stations, christian tv stations and christian radio stations (and they campaign constantly for republicans and most of all they own the VOTING MACHINES. WE ARE SCREWED!!!!

[sandnsea]

43. Exactly

If he had been allowed to campaign like he did in Iowa, really talk about global issues and how it's all connected, the kind of fair trade he truly supports and how our own stupid corporate health care and other policies hurt it, national service and building communities, energy independence and jobs and really striving for a better tomorrow; with all the depth of the subject he had in Iowa; we'd be singing a different tune today. But no, Bob Schrum dumbed down the election and you can't dumb it down enough for Bush voters.

[depakid]

33. The Confederacy lives

Actually- the US has been living under the Confederacy for at least 10 years now, and apparently that's not going to change in my lifetime- oh well.

[RedCon1]

59. divide and conquer

We need to divide the south into as many little pieces as possible. Divide them by gender, by SEC, by religion, by race, by sexual preferences, by poltical leanings, etc. If the war really turns south, we should start...

[surfermaw]

35. Mike Easley..Why

The state would vote against him, North Carolina elects a democrat as governor, but the red necks in the eastern part of the state are the old Dixiecrats that never changed their regisration, it has nothing to do with who was on the ticket, it is all about the religious rights, the republicans have been working on that for more than 20 years.

My point Jim Hunt was governor of North Carolina for years and started head start,but on the national ticket they would have voted against them...The only thing that is going to turn the red states around is a depression, such as the one after Harding Coolidge and Hoover, however that won't happen untill Bush has taken out all the safety nets...He still has about 10 % unemployment in some areas, if all were counted....When China stops financing his deficite , he will have a depression.

[74dodgedart]

36. Wesley Clark

Arkansas

[surfermaw]

37. John Edwards, & Wes.Clark ..except for factor R/R

John Edwards and Wes.Clark may have pulled a few more votes our way, but I think the religious right would have voted for Bush no matter what. They are going to have to get mighty hungry to wake up and think.

[LibDemAlways]

39. Why bother even going through

the charade in 2008? The fix is already in.

[leesa]

40. What crap! Once again we let the RW set our agenda for us.

THEY 'won' with a rich eastern boy! Hello!!! Bush is a Northeastern boy.

[crossroads]

67. Right you are... I won't play!

Found this on a yahoo message board tonight...

HOW YOU CAN EXPOSE THE STOLEN ELECTION
by: mr_**********) 11/09/04 12:58 am
Msg: 13**** of 136985
5 recommendations

Bev Harris of BlackBoxVoting.org (www.blackboxvoting.org) has put together a handy list of things you can do to expose Bush for stealing the 2004 presidential election:

1. BE THE MEDIA -- See below.

2. CRUNCH THE NUMBERS: Discrepancies please, and hurry. E-mail them to [e-mail] .

Pass the word. Need source documents, too. ASAP.

Follow your nose, or join the Black Box Scavenger Hunt: Pick a county. Look at small counties, as we are seeing many discrepancies in those. Look in any state. Get the official number of registered voters, Dem and Republican. Get the number of votes cast on Nov. 2, Republican and Dem. Make a grid like this, filling in the right numbers:

# reg. voters % # votes cast %
Rep 100 33% 150 50%
Dem 200 67% 150 50%
Totl 300 100% 300 100%

We can find out a lot from this procedure, very hard data, that will make a real difference. As soon as you have finished a county, e-mail it to us. Do as many counties as you can.

3. HAVE A HOUSE PARTY: Show the film “Votergate” (the real one, which you can download for free at www.Votergate.tv .) Organize “Be the media” actions and set up investigative teams to help dig up information like you have in #2. Timeline is NOW, to get action before seating the electoral college.

4. HELP CONNECT THE WIRES: Hook Black Box Voting (.ORG) up with powerhitters you know, people who can make things happen.

5. DONATE to any of 3 organizations: Black Box Voting (.ORG), the consumer protection group for elections; or the new recount fund (information upcoming, contact DU's Hedda_Foil), or send contribution to Votergate.tv (The REAL Votergate film, by Russell Michaels, Robert Carrillo Cohen, and Simon Ardizzone. There is another by someone else, make sure you get the right one.) The real VOTERGATE is the most powerful investigative film on this topic, and consequently it has been attacked and blocked repeatedly. They deserve your support.

“HOW TO BE THE MEDIA”

Don’t expect to see vote burglary on TV. To get the message out fast, you’re going to have to become the underground railroad. Do it now. Take pictures of each other doing it. Have house parties to show others how to do it. Here’s how to “be the media.”

BE YOUR OWN REPORTER: We will send you new information as we get it. We need your e-mail to get you on the list, so if a friend sent this to you, please shoot an email to [e-mail] to sign up.

Spread the information we send you to every blog, listserv, forum you know and throughout your personal network. Talk about it at work and to people you meet everywhere, lots, quickly, all the time.

SELF SERVE SOUND BITES: Frequent, very short messages to immediately increase public awareness. Assume you won’t see it on TV.
Put vote fraud related messages on:
- Yard signs
- Car windows
- Write them on duct tape and wear them
- Print REMOVABLE stickers and stick them on things:
- Bathroom door at the gas station.
- On telephone poles in the dead of night
- At bus stops
- On the back of bus seats
- Stick them into your junk mail and send it back via return mail
- Slip them into menus at restaurants
- Leave them in books at the bookstore
- Share new self serve sound bite ideas with us and we’ll send them out with new messages.

Also, here are more ideas.
- Magnetic signs for your car
- If you know a trucker, have them put a message in the window as they drive across the county.
- Make a patch and put it on the front of your baseball cap
- Carry a sign and stand in the window outside the Today Show

If we have to be our own media, so be it. We will not sacrifice democracy just because TV executive producers have a problem with this issue.
..............

:bounce:

[mountainvue]

41. Unless we

remedy ourselves of voter fraud we will never win another election. Edwards didn't carry North Carolina this time, what makes anyone think he could do it as the nominee?

[LiberteToujours]

47. How come the Repubs don't need a northeast liberal?

Huh? How come they get to nominate the most fascist whackjob ever, but we need to compromise? Fuck.

[STL_Social_Democrat]

49. Rudy. Pataki, Romney, the gropenator

All of these people are unacceptable to the funamentalists in the base of the GOP. Romney is a mormon, there is no way in hell that southernors will elect a mormon, whether its right or wrong. Rudy is an adulterer, ontop of being pro choice and pro gay rights. Pataki is pro gun control, that would kill him in southern primaries and the gropenator would also. Even if Ahhnuld were eligible to run, he would alienate the GOP base so much that he would lose.

[Auntie Bush]

50. So it looks like Jebbie is it!

[STL_Social_Democrat]

48. Why not Rendell/Warner or vice versa

Ed Rendell is more the type of man in which some of these "red state voters" would be comfortable with. He is a big guy with a deep raspy sounding voice, served in the army, former prosecutor/tough on crime. Is he from a "blue state" yes, and yes he is jewish, however he is a governor, yet understands how DC works having been the former DNC chair. More importantly though, he comes across as a no bullshit straight shooter, which in my opinion was more of a problem for Kerry than anything else. If we have learned anything, its that style does matter. Unfortunately, substance is secondary.

Mark Warner is frankly a little too conservative for my own liking, however he does fit the bill as a red state guy. He has a background in business prior to running for office.

My biggest fear is that in this effort to find a candidate from a "red state" we will end up with another anti union, right to work state, free trading corporate ass kisser. That is what Al From and the DLC want more than anything.

[amandabeech]

64. I'm originally from the red part of Michigan and now I live

in the red part of Pennsylvania.

Rendell is the governor of Pennsylvania "Where America Begins", but he will look, sound and act like the New Yorker that he is to red state/red county folks.

I like the guy myself, having lived in NYC and DC and can get beyond the externals, but I think that even the teachers in my hometown would have problems with him.

A Pennsylvanian or Marylander from a non-urban part of either state and with a neutral accent might cut it as the Veep, though.

[Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin]

52. Legally anyone can run who wants to

John Edwards and Wes Clark are two red staters that come to mind. I was a delegate for Clark.

[mccormack98]

58. We need to be able to elect candidates no matter where they come from!

The simple fact is that the Democratic party gets most of its presidential candidates from the northern states. We can't just stop recruiting good candidates from the north simply because they are from the north. We need to develop a strategy that works for anyone - regardless of their place of origins.

There are millions of people in this country who would be Democratic if they were registered. And there are millions of others who ARE registered as democrats but who don't vote.

We need to go after these voters. We have to figure out what makes them tick. What motivates them. And what it would take to mobilize them.

In other words, we need to do what the Republicans are doing. GET OUT THE VOTE IN OUR BASE. Screw the middle.

[SoCalDem]

60. Sorry.. It won't matter.. It's OUR IDEALS they hate..

The candidate could be from Montgomery Alabama, but if he/she's not a bible-thumping,gay-hating,black-hating,gun-loving-mysogynistic fetus-worshiper, he/she will NOT win the south..

The "true believers" in the Bush Cult follow only "their kind"..Any democrat who kowtows to their demands, becomes abhorrent to real democrats..

This is the Catch22 we have ourselves in.

Electoral votes have been drifting southward for YEARS, and they have played the game well..

With all the HORRIBLE things Bush had hanging around his neck, they did not bat an eye when voting for him.. What does that say??

Zealots are NOT rational people.

Our party needs to start getting some of the secretary of state positions in every state possible, and governorships and state house legislatures. The goings on within the states are more important than ever.

Laws need to be passed in the southern states that will start taking away some of their unfair advantages . Those states are famous for allowing environmental damage, low wages, low/or no taxes.. These things are creating MORE Electoral votes for them...at the expense of blue states..

A new census is 6 years away.. Legislatures need to start NOW..

[amandabeech]

66. You are absolutely right about taking eveything at the state

and local level.

We've been bested by two Secretaries of State, Harris and Blackwell, and by Repuke-controlled state legislatures drawing up districts.

It's time to start bankrolling state and local parties and their candidates.

Politics are like baseball used to be--the farm teams are incredibly important.

[Kimber Scott]

62. Why don't we just get somebody from the KKK?

:shrug:

[Cheney Killed Bambi]

63. Bad Idea

Nominate a good candidate and we'll do fine. None of this centrist republican-lite bs.

[amandabeech]

65. No one here has mentioned Tom Vilsack , governor of Iowa.

Kerry nearly selected him as V.P. Apparently, he's very popular in Iowa and has a "bootstraps" story.

He might go over in the Midwest, like Ohio, Wisconsin and Missouri, a few southern states like Arkansas and Tennessee, and maybe western/plains states like Colorado, New Mexico, Arizona and Nevada.

I'm prejudiced, but it's hard to dislike a plain-spoken Midwestern type.

Having said all that, has anyone here heard him speak? I doubt that he could raise the rabble like Harken, but perhaps he's not a Sominex speaker like Bayh.

[LibDemAlways]

68. Isn't it a bit premature to

worry about who will be the next sacrificial Dem? Unless and until we unrig the process, it won't matter who we nominate.

[flaminbats]

70. exactly..

time to abolish the Electoral College. Then we can nominate Zell Miller or Ben Nelson.

[Salluc]

71. Anyone else here for the protests before the Repub Convention?

One of the things that was fantastically striking to me was there we all were, all 500,000 of us, marching up 6th Avenue here in New York and during those loooong hours, I think I saw two Kerry buttons. All week long, there were numerous other marches throughout the city and people were marching about issues, not for the Democratic candidate.

And so many of those people were young and pissed off and Democrats just weren't speaking to them. In the same way that Detroit can count on their grandparents to buy Buicks, we were counting on them voting for us. But here's the problem, we just failed them all day long and every which way.

They needed us to talk about justice and the environment and every single thing the * administration has done to screw young people, disenfranchised people, poor people and "minorities" -- we were so busy courting Red states, we didn't pay a moment's attention to the plaintive marching, dancing and drum beating of flesh-and-blood people looking for a champion.

As Democrats, we have, have, have to stop being your father's Buick.

[SKKY]

73. I don't know why I think this...

...but after reading about and listening closely to what he says, I think we're going to hear a great deal from Gavin Newsom in the future. If he decides to take on Arnold, I think we'll be able to tell where he has his sites set.