Like Clinging Chads, Kerry Faithful Hang On...

[OhioChick]

Like clinging chads, Kerry faithful hang on
But officials don't expect big changes in tally
Saturday, November 06, 2004
Scott Hiaasen
Plain Dealer Reporter
John Kerry won Ohio - you realize that, don't you?

The exit polls were right. Kerry just conceded too quickly; his victory can be found in all those uncounted ballots. And his concession speech was merely customary, you know.

And how do you explain those extra 3,900 Bush votes that showed up in a Gahanna polling precinct?

You don't really think that was some innocent mistake, do you?

Uh, OK - but hold on a minute.

Kerry did abandon his bid for the White House. And state elections officials are confident that voting totals will not dramatically change.

http://www.cleveland.com/election/plaindealer/index.ssf?/base/isele/1099744215316220.xml

[DoYouEverWonder]

1. Kerry concession

was a brilliant move.

By the time the Electoral College meets in Dec the case for fraud is going to be overwhelming.

We are at war and Kerry is laying in wait.

The tide is going to turn soon. The longer we can wait while the votes are still being counted the better.

[GRLMGC]

2. No he's not

He doesn't care. He doesn't have to.

[Straight Shooter]

3. It's the DAMAGE CONTROL TEAM out in full force and effect

Oh, they see it coming, they don't want it to take them down, so here they go trying to pull the bushy wool over everyone's eyes. They can't call us "sore loserman" because Kerry and Edwards and even Dean are laying low, so now they're trying to compare us to hanging chads? What ineptitude!

Good grief, they even brought out "Revenge-of-the-Nerds Rove" for an interview with Peter Jennings and Brit Hume, explaining why bush "won."

Damage Control, pure and simple.

[GingerSnaps]

4. Would fraud

Wipe out Kerry's concession?

[0rganism]

6. Kerry's concession means squat, legally

The vote is for the party's electoral slate. I didn't hear any of those guys conceding.

The current tally is best-guess only. If a majority of the electoral college decided to vote for Badnarik, he would be the next president.

[struggle4progress]

23. Good point. Should we begin lobbying electors? eom

[LisaL]

5. Why don't they explain to us how one voting machine can give

Bush almost 4,000 extra votes? What kind of mistake is that?
There have got to be thousands of those machines in Franklin county alone. If only 34 machines gave Bush 4,000 extra votes each, his lead is gone!
And how to check that-no paper trail. The only reason those 4,000 votes were discovered is because there were less voters than votes.
How do we know what other machines did?
How can it be verified that they did not add 4,000 extra votes to Bush' lead?
If one machine can make a "mistake" like that, how do we know if others didn't?
It's pathetic, really.
They refuse to admit that something very fishy is going on.
And none of our Democratic Leaders seem to want to ask any questions.
Well, they better, or they all will not be re-elected when their time comes when their votes magically dissapear.

[BayStateBoy]

7. My Reply to this Journalist

The mainstream news media have been spoon fed a new word by Bush/Rove. That word is "evangelical," and they are babbling it excitedly like babes at a day care to the exclusion of some very real issues impacting the Bush Presidency.

The second Bush/Rove pabulum is the Bush "mandate," also being belched along with the evangelical pill. Meanwhile, no one seems to entertain the possibility that the Bush "mandate" may mostly be an Electoral WMD.

That is not to imply that Republican grassroots efforts, moral values, the evangelical vote were important especially in Ohio. No question. Kerry was up against it in a country voting with its Bible and belly rather than its brain. But, those issues are instantly eclipsed by the following:

1. Electronic (BBV) voting, or any voting method that does not leave a permanent paper trail which can be audited is a felony to democracy.

The legitimacy of democratic elections is predicated upon the electorate's ability to verify election results. To deny the people or any candidate the option of a recount is directly contrary to the democratic principles upon which this nation was founded. Therefore any voting method not leaving a permanent verifiable record should be eradicated forever from the American political landscape.

2. Re: Exit polling, please no more excuses or distortions. Exit polling always correlates within 2% with voting tallies. We need answers, or in the absence thereof, a serious investigation the following facts:

a. In Election 2004 the only exit polls that did not correlate closely with voting tallies were in states using BBV or a combination of methods including electronic machines. http://www.bluelemur.com/index.php?p=388" WHY?

b. In Election 2004, in every instance where there was significant statistical discrepancy between the exit polls and the voting tallies, George W. Bush was the recipient of additional votes and never John Kerry. WHY?

WI +4B MN +7B NC +9B FL +7B OH +6B CO +4B PA +5B NH +15B
NM +3B

WI Poll one 52-48 3rd 51-46 Final 52-47 Published 50-49
PA Poll one 60-40 3rd 54-45 Final 53-46 Published 51-49
OH Poll one 52-48 2nd 50-49 3rd 50-49 Final 51-49 Published 49-51
FL Poll one 51-48 2nd 50-49 3rd 50-49 Final 51-49 Published 47-52
MINN Poll one 58-40 3rd 58-40 Final 54-44 Published 51-48
NH Poll one 57-41 3rd 58-41 Published 50-49
NC Poll one 3rd 49-51 Final 48-52 Published 43-56

http://www.washingtondispatch.com/spectrum/archives/000715.html
http://ustogether.org/Florida_Election.htm

http://www.michigancityin.com/articles/2004/11/04/news/news02.txt

***The statistical probability of a & b resulting from something other than random chance will be published shortly you can be assured.

c. "The last wave of national exit polls we received, along with many other subscribers, showed Kerry winning the popular vote by 51 percent to 48 percent." http://nytimes.com/2004/11/05/politics/campaign/05poll.html

I submit that these issues should be thoroughly investigated, not in any attempt necessarily to overturn the election, but to pursue the truth which is the mainstay of any democracy and which used to be the heart and soul of news journalism.

[aquart]

10. The religious crap is the Republican cover story.

The American people did not vote for the man who is destroying us.

[peekaloo]

8. Media types like this are Dingleberries...they hang too!

}(

[FormerOstrich]

9. Damn...this was one of those stop what you are doing and tell

this person to....well..you know. Here is a copy of my e-mail to the author.

I just read your article “Like Clinging Chads….”. I thought I would try to explain to you are trivializing a very serious matter. I am disappointed a professional journalist preferred only to write an article with no substance in a condescending tone versus to attempt to understand the actual issue.

There has been state after state report hardware malfunctions which impacted the number of votes. Issues such as more votes than registered voters, missing votes, and negative votes have been reported nationwide. Many of these issues have been detected in the 2000 and 2002 elections. Yet, we still see them today.

You seem to suggest that voters should just lay back and let the election officials certify the numbers. Apparently you are confident that any and all abnormalities will be addressed and corrected. If they haven’t straightened this out in the last 5 years what makes you feel so certain they will in the next moth?

Personally, I don’t believe it is a matter of “hanging on” and the “Kerry faithful”. Perhaps it is people that care more about this republic and our democracy than you do. Perhaps it is concerned citizens that feel the election tallies cannot be trusted? Maybe you should be a little concerned, too.

There is no excuse for the types of technological errors that are being reported. For decades ATMs have been processing high volume secure transactions. Dollars don’t disappear and reappear. My account does not get debited or credited for your transaction. The technology exists. Why haven’t we applied those standards to our elections?

You do your readers and your country a disservice when you minimize these issues. It may all seem petty to you because maybe you are petty. Please refrain from discussing that of which you don’t know. There was a time, in my lifetime even; a good journalist could make a difference with this story. Unfortunately, it is people like you that not only further a cause, you’re irresponsibility will make it harder for those that do try.

Trust me….a lot of the “clinging” people would much rather be with their families, at a movie, or a park than to be pouring over dull and boring data. They seem to realize something you don’t. Our responsibility as a citizen to this great country goes beyond ridiculing others.

Thank you

[intheflow]

12. ATMs

a) make money for a bank.

b) give a paper receipt!

[gratefull4u]

20. excellent letter! (eom)

[hang a left]

24. Great letter.

You write beautifully.

[crossroads]

28. Well put!!! n/t

:dem:

[NYC Liberal]

11. You know what they say about rats and a sinking ship...

They're scared to death that we shined the spotlight on their little election-stealing scheme. They know it's coming out, bit by bit, and everyone involved is scattering. All we need to do is stay focused, and we will win!

[OhioChick]

13. Congrats....

To the two above posters for very well-versed letters to the journalist! Bravo!

[mongo]

14. "People just need to be patient and calm down,"

I will NOT be patient. I will NOT calm down.

I will shout at the top of my lungs until we have a fair and accurate election!

[JPace]

15. Question....

knowing squat about voting machines is it possible that
when they were rigged that the evidence of tampering
would disappear after the voting was done. Can tampering
evidence be found?

[RedSock]

18. I have a Diebold ATM at my job

I have a Diebold ATM at my job -- it gives receipts.

[bear425]

16. To reach this Plain Dealer reporter:

[e-mail], 216-999-4927

[DeadManInc]

17. Like Clinging Chads, Kerry Faithful Hang On

great letters you sent to this moron.

[OnceAndFutureTruth]

19. Has anyone noticed? Gallup says 23% doubt "fair and square" win for Bush

This result shows up on the Gallup website, albeit stated the other way around (74% think it was fair and square).
http://www.gallup.com/
(scroll down, there is a small blurb about it with a graph at bottom left of page)

Here is the thing: 23% having doubts about the results of a democratic election is a HUGE number, imho. True, its less than in 2000, and that may be why there hasn't been as much attention paid to this figure, but it does seem highly relevant. (It is, after all, 10 TIMES the margin of error by which Bush claims to have won.)

Again, I am not certain, myself. But that many people having questions seems to me a valid reason for a thorough investigation of the results. It seems very unlikely that the Republicans can effectively claim that almost one quarter of the population fits in the tinfoil hat category! (although, you never know)

[LisaL]

21. And the 74 % likely don't have the information (YET!)

If it gets out in the media, a lot more people are going do doubt!

[OnceAndFutureTruth]

22. Countdown (Keith Olbermann) HAS briefly mentioned some of this.

from the transcript of the November 4, 2004 show (http://msnbc.msn.com/id/6414931/): <snip>
"Our Fourth story, did your vote count and what about the comments you made about your vote to your local neighborhood pollster?"

<snip>
Results in New Mexico, Iowa, New Hampshire and Wisconsin are all tight. Only 10 to 15,000 votes separating the candidates there. All four states are leaning toward Mr. Bush. But NBC will not call them for the president until the votes are decisive. Even the states already counted for President Bush, there are questions about whether every vote really got counted. In Ohio, 155,000 provisional ballots still being tallied. Absentee ballots still need to be counted, 92,000 votes were discounted. All which of has led to speculation in the blogosphere that John Kerry may have conceded too early. To say nothing of pictures purportedly showing bags of votes being dumped into trucks bearing Bush/Cheney bumper stickers.

<snip>
In Florida, where concern that the new touch-screen voting machines would be vulnerable to hackers and errors, especially without any paper trail, there were relatively few problems reported on Election Day but several dozen people there and in five other states reported an anomaly on the checkout screen. The same anomaly that was making the e-mail rounds as a joke late in October. Voters say when they tried to verify their pick of John Kerry, the computer kept asking them to verify their pick of George Bush.

Olbermann seems to be willing to stick his neck out a bit, although the rest of this story concerned an analysis of why the pollsters believe that the results differed from the exit polls. Perhaps he is somebody who should be kept apprised of the info people are gathering here.

[Cocoa]

25. my email to the reporter

Dear Scott,

I don't know the validity of the fraud charges. I will need to read news stories that cover the evidence and counterevidence.

But the stories will have to be serious to be of any use to me or any other reader. If they have a silly tone like your story, they're just a waste of time for us and for you.

Since you did some reporting on this, why don't you write another, more normal story, without all the attitude?

[Sufi Marmot]

26. Overseas votes...any idea how many?

In addition, thousands of ballots from voters overseas must also be counted.

The deadline for them to be received by election officials is Nov. 12.

This is a factor I hadn't heard mentioned before - how many OH ballots are coming/have come from overseas - 1000? 5000? 25000?

Does this include military or just civilians living overseas?

-SM

[DoYouEverWonder]

27. I heard that there were 700,000 overseas ballots

I heard this from someone who spoke to Pete Peterson before the election.

[grasswire]

29. my letter

Sir:

I wonder if you covered the personal attacks by Republicans on John Kerry during the campaign with as much skepticism as you apparently feel for the current quest by American citizens to make sure that every vote was counted properly?

Your sacred task as a journalist, you know, is to stand between the people and tyranny. Nothing more. It is not your job to inject opinion or characterization into news reporting. Your piece of today is not labeled "analysis" or "commentary." And so the subtle characterization of those who are verifying vote counts as crackpots is irresponsible journalism.

Tell it straight. Do your job as if the fate of our land depends on it.