Wisconsin school district to allow theories other than evolution

[quaoar]

http://www.duluthsuperior.com/mld/duluthsuperior/news/politics/10117287.htm

Associated Press

MILWAUKEE - The Grantsburg School District has approved a policy that would allow theories other than evolution to be taught in the classroom.

Wisconsin law mandates that evolution be taught, but school districts are free to create their own curricular standards, which do not have to be consistent with the state's model, said Joe Donovan, a spokesman for the state Department of Public Instruction.

The school board felt state law was too restrictive, said Grantsburg superintendent Joni Burgin.

So when the board examined a new science curriculum, as it does every six years, a line was added calling for "various models/theories" of origin to be incorporated.

[kwolf68]

1. Wow

So are we going to stop teaching science all together? Darwin's work was brilliant, absolutely brilliant.

Even if you don't go for his "we evolved from apes" angle, his work on microevolution helped us explain why some animals "make it" and "others dont."

As a scientist-n-training I have no problem with alternative viewpoints, but to minimalize Darwin's work has long been the goal of these cheeseballs...sad it is

[KC21304]

8. Don't you mean sleeze balls ? That I would agree with.

Cheeseballs kind of sounds like a slam on all of us Badgers. :)

[ixion]

2. I wonder if they'll include extraterrestrial fertilization?

I mean, since they're giving equal time and all. :evilgrin:

[Bo]

10. ala Stitchin

[muriel_volestrangler]

69. That does have more evidence for it than 'Creationism'

Seriously. 'Creationism' was invented by someone who thinks that sticking 'ism' on the end of a myth promotes it to a theory.

At least extraterrestrial fertilization doesn't break the laws of physics, or ignore the evidence you find in rocks all over the world.

[ixion]

75. exactly...

I think it's less about opening it up to other possibilities than it is about injecting creationism, which, of the different theories is by far the least viable, violating, as you said, the laws of physics, among others.

[struggle4progress]

87. Oooh. I don't think the Church supports that. eom

[Cocoa]

3. reality-based education is on its way out

well, it had a good run. :-(

[Anarcho-Socialist]

4. Will they teach that the sun revolves around the earth

and that the earth is flat?

[Cha]

23. You mean the Earth..

isn't Flat? And this isn't 1984 all over again?

[cubsfan forever]

77. That is probably their goal,

to eliminate all teaching of science and turn the clock back to the Middle Ages.

Professor 2

[Anarcho-Socialist]

5. Maybe they'll start teaching David Icke's theories too?

:puke:

[The Zanti Regent]

24. Don't forget Erich Von Dääniken, too!

Remember the Chariots of the Gods stuff back in the 70s that was eventually discredited?

[daleo]

6. Looking at the pros and cons of evolutionary theory is fine

But I suspect their only alternative "theory" will involve something about Adam and Eve.

[LiberteToujours]

9. Exactly

This isn't about looking at "alternate" theories, it's about pushing Christian literalism down the throats of an entire nation.

[DrWeird]

11. Well, looking at the pros is fine.

Since there aren't really any cons.

[ScrewyRabbit]

40. No, there are cons

The cons are that the "alternatives" they're talking about aren't science. The science classroom should be left to science.

Creationism is religion. Leave it to the religion class.

[deadparrot]

12. Bingo.

Go ahead and examine other theories, I don't see a problem with it.

But we're not going to be teaching the Big Bang, primordial soup stuff. It will be Creationism, pure and simple.

[snippy]

7. This is what happens whaen people vote republican. n/t

[lawladyprof]

15. But what to say about fossil fuels?

Didn't take millions of years to form. God made them within the past 10,000 years. Quick tell Exxon that the next generation won't be believing in the origin of petroleum.

[Skittles]

13. with all due respect isn't this what churches are for???

nt

[Jack Schitt]

65. That's exactly what churches are for.

[rockydem]

14. Science class is for science

If they start teaching Biblical shit in Biology we might as well cancel all science courses...

[ticapnews]

16. "Evolution is a theory, just as much as creationism is a theory"

"There is contradictory evidence for both."

Wow.

I feel bad for the kids. They're going to have this biblical claptrap shoved down their thorats, and when they get to college they're going to be confused as hell. Assuming the school district isn't black-listed by most institutions of higher learning. They aren't going to accept students who can't pass biology, geology or other sciences.

[Auntie Bush]

19. My poor deceased son used to say the exact same thing!

You "kind-of" took the words out of his mouth.

[NickB79]

68. AAAGGGHHHHH!!! Here is why creationism can never be a scientific theory

In science, when faced with a question that you wish to solve, you first create a hypothesis. You apply this hypothesis to your problem at hand, testing and running experiments to see if the evidence supports or rejects your hypothesis. If it supports it, you continue testing, finding new ways to try to invalidate your hypothesis. If, after numerous tests by many, many individuals and research groups, your hypothesis is still standing, you may begin to consider it a theory.

If, however, the evidence points to your hypothesis being wrong, you must be prepared to discard it and create a new hypothesis that takes into account the new data. The very basis of science is conducting experiments with the ability and willingness to discard your hypothesis if it is invalidated. If you are unable to do this, science stops and personal viewpoints take over. This is where creationism falters. The day a creationist can openly admit that he/she is willing to discard their hypothesis that God created the world within the past 10,000 yrs if the evidence doesn't support it is the day it could truly be regarded as science, and thus compete with evolutionary theory in the classroom. However, creationists instead come to the table with a hypothesis, and try to force the data to support it, the exact opposite of what science intended. They are ideologically bound to their dogma, no matter what the data says, and can therefore NEVER be considered true scientists.

[Briar]

73. Exactly!

A theory relies on facts. No matter how beautiful it is, when a fact comes along which doesn't fit it, goodbye theory. Science looks for those facts.

Creationism is a belief. It laughs at facts. Find a million (if you are brave enough risk being burned at the stake for asking questions about Bible truth) and they will all just be treated as tests of faith. True believers will just congratulate themselves on overcoming scepticism.

[Book Lover]

17. Another breach in the wall

Sounds so nice, doesn't it: "Various models/theories" scientific. Hey, we're just putting all the evidence out there for the kids to judge. They've got developed critcal thinking skills, right?

[billyoc]

18. Well, the golden age of humankind

was fun while it lasted. I'm glad I got to see it. :(

[quaoar]

20. What is creationism's explanation

for dinosaurs?

[DrWeird]

21. Jesus horses.

They didn't make it to the Ark.

[ticapnews]

25. Like unicorns

And dragons. And hobbits.

[WildClarySage]

31. Oh, my.

[atommom]

39. Their bones were just placed in the earth by Satan to mislead us.

No, I'm not kidding. A fundie told me that!

As a biologist by training, I'm appalled by the whole debate. There's no proof on their side. The contention that they want "equal time" implies that they have just as much proof as the scientists on the other side. Sorry, but that isn't the case at all! It's just one more case of trying to "save" the masses, and keep their own kids from learning the principles of logic and science.

[gumby]

55. I saw this one explained on my teevee.

The lecturer said that dinosaurs were taken onto the the Ark as babies because baby dinosaurs are little-bitty.

I am not making this up.

[AlienGirl]

67. I asked my fundie co-worker about that

She said dinosaurs never existed.

Tucker

[FM Arouet666]

83. You don't need one

That is the beauty of religious thinking. God placed the bones of the dinosaurs as he created the earth. They never really existed. Now prove me wrong.... For that matter, we all didn't exist until 5 minutes ago when God created us in a flash. Can't prove that either. That is the problem with religious thinking.

[splat]

22. Star seeds from outer space okay, too? n/t

[0rganism]

26. So, what accurate predictions is the Theory of Creation providing for us?

What particular empirical evidence does it explain?

"Evolution is a theory, just as much as creationism is a theory," he said.

Since when is creationism a theory?

[Journeyman]

50. If creationism is to be taught as a theory. . .

then it'll have to teach as all theories are taught: with the underlying belief that it could be wrong.

[The Wielding Truth]

27. And the world was a cosmic egg. Yes teach all non

scientific concepts. Then teach the discoveries of physical examination with no religious input. Yes teach, but teach all.

[JudyM]

28. Evolution is apparently too 'reality based'

[Blue_Tires]

29. why not just skip to the part

where the bible is the only approved teaching book for schools?

[WindRavenX]

30. Fuck this shit

No wonder children in the US lag behind pretty much every single developed nation in science and math- we're allowing BS creationism to replace science. Evolution in itself says NOTHING about the lack of a "creator"; it is only the mechanism to describe change.
Goddammit this makes me angry.
I hate neocons.

[RetroLounge]

32. Grantsburg is a rural shithole

Problem is, the minute these kids turn 18 they high-tail on out of there and then we have to deal with more fundies in the cities.

Hopefully they go to UW-Madison and get themselves de-programmed at an off-campus everyone-is-naked Everclear party.

RL

[Massacure]

33. As long as all the theories are given equal time, then fine.

[Tampa Rob]

35. No, NOT fine. Equal time presupposes equal measure...

...and "Creationism" has none, zero, zip, zilch, in the way of scientific measure.

Also, the poster above who mentions that Evolution says NOTHING about the original "creation" of the earth is quite correct.

The MECHANISM for change in and out of species is up for lively debate.

The FACT that they change is not.

Now, if you want to have arguments about the origin of the earth, be my guest. And still, science commands more serious attention in that sphere.

TR

[Massacure]

37. Science isn't always exact.

When I was in middle school I was taught the beliefs of Christianity, Judism, Islam, Budhism, and Hinduism, as well as science. And my beliefs aren't messed up. I'm as good a democrat as all of you.

[ScrewyRabbit]

44. No one is saying your beliefs are messed up, or

that you aren't a good democrat. What we are saying is that religion and science aren't even talking about the same thing. They are totally separate subjects.

[struggle4progress]

88. Oh, you'd probably be grumpy even if they wanted to teach the Edda theory:

First, Muspelheim and Svol, Gunnthra, Fiorm, Fimbulthul, Slidr, Hrid, Sylg, Ylg, Vid, Leiptr, and Gioll (flowing from Elivagar in Niflheim) filled Ginnungagap, forming Ymir and Audhumla. Ymir's feet begat Thrudgelmir, and Audhumla licked Buri into existence. Various other arrivals soon followed. Unfortunately this early (but somewhat dysfunctional family) then murdered Ymir, causing a bloody flood which drowned various relatives, although several quick thinkers escaped in a boat, while others cheerfully used Ymir's corpse to create heaven and earth and then manufactured Ask and Embla from surplus driftwood.

Although a tremendous amount of evidence supports this theory, the standard scientific community is conspiring to suppress it. But open-minded people everywhere will welcome its inclusion into school science books as a great leap forward.

[newyawker99]

91. Hi TampaRob!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[ScrewyRabbit]

43. I'm sorry, NO, the other "theories" aren't theories at all

Some of you need to go back and read up on what actually constitutes a theory. It's not just an "explanation".

[JPace]

34. Well if they are going to offer up Christian theories....

they need to include Muslim and Native American views also,
I'm sure Buddhist's and a few other religions want to be
included. Then we just sort of let the kids decide which
one they like best. Who cares about facts anymore?

[reprobate]

52. And will they give equal time to us Solipsists? We know better.

[jhain]

36. well, evolution *is* just a theory

you know...like gravity.

[DemBones DemBones]

70. Gravity is a law, not a theory (see Newton, Isaac) nt

[muriel_volestrangler]

74. See Einstein, Albert, on how Newton didn't get it quite right

Newton's equations work fine for everyday calculations, but are approximations of the more precise relativistic equations. So saying Newton's explanation of gravity is a theory is correct.

What isn't correct is claiming Creationism is a theory; it's a myth, not even believed by the majority of Christians (the Roman Catholics reject it, plus the vast majority of European Protestant churches).

[NickB79]

80. No, technically it it still a theory

It has been said that, if the law of gravity were discovered today, it would be called the theory of gravity. We still call Einstein's discovery the theory of relativity, when it has just as much evidence behind it as the law of gravity. A law implies that it has been proven beyond all doubt. However, in science you can NEVER prove anything beyond all doubt. We know that the law of gravity applies where we are standing, but what about over on that mountain range? If we prove it exists over there, what about over in that jungle? If we prove it exists on every square foot of the entire planet, what about the moon? If we prove it exists on the moon, what about on a planet around another star? And so on and so on. You could be 99.999999999% positive the "law" of gravity is correct, but that 0.000000001% will prevent it from being more than a theory. It's all semantics, really.

[St. Jarvitude]

90. Quote from my freshman Bio teacher:

Some fundy kid blurted out "There's not enough evidence to justify evolutionary theory!"

She smiled at him and said "There's more evidence to support evolution than gravity. Why aren't you strapped to the floor right now?"

[VegasWolf]

38. Creationism isn't a theory it's a religious philosophy! Like the

earth is flat. Usage such of this reduces the word theory
to utter meaninglessness.

[teach1st]

41. I have a theory that fundies are reversing evolution...

..it's just a theory. Can I teach it?

[WindRavenX]

47. SNARF

good one :D

[Judi Lynn]

42. So is our only answer to give these cretins everything they demand?

Humor them? You know they won't shut up until they are COMPLETELY satisfied in every possible way.

Play along with them, while going about our own lives? Teach children a dual language: one for reality, and another cautious, "pretend" language for communicating when they are around?

Looks that way to me. They aim to control. They've got all the weapons, too!

[sakabatou]

45. Ach...

Soon they'll be telling us that the Gods crontrol every aspect of life and that stars are nothing more than campfires way out there. Like how the earth is about 7000 years old and that the earth will blow up in the year 2012.

[reprobate]

53. Sir or Madam, you blaspheme.

Do not speek of "Gods". There is but one God, and he is I.

And it was I who created the earth and all upon it.

Last wednesday.

[sakabatou]

58. Just quoting from the astronomer Chris Sagan...

Of course with text its hard to to decipher your message if you really mean that...

[Yavin4]

46. Fair and Balanced Academia

We teach. You decide.

[Maat]

49. Excuse me....the Supreme Court has ruled....and the existing..

case law is...that you can't dress up creationism in a pigsuit, put lipstick on it, and call it science (or something like that).

Anyway, all a student's parent has to do is to sue, and they will win, all the way up.....if they live long enough.

[not fooled]

59. Yeah, but only until * packs the Supreme Court

Once he does that, ain't no way SCOTUS will stand in the way of the kooks. Something else to look forward to.

[VegasWolf]

51. Ah, Fox based teaching. Must watch Fox! Must watch Fox!

[Lydia Leftcoast]

48. My father was a Lutheran pastor, and when fundy-influenced parishioners

tried to complain that the local school was teaching evolution, his reply was, "The Bible isn't a science book."

What you're seeing in Grantsburg is the result of fundies putting stealth candidates on school boards. This is one of the weaknesses of the much-vaunted system of "local control" that we have in the United States. In all too many cases, it's shorthand for "control by idiots."

You know, two years ago, I was talking to a Japanese friend, and she asked me to explain this fundamentalism that she had heard about. She listened calmly as I told her about Biblical literalism, highly emotional styles of worship, and strict rules on personal behavior, but when I added that they don't believe in evolution, she gasped, "Uso!" which is what Japanese people say in situations where an American would say, "You're kidding!" By the way, this woman, a couple of years older than I am, is not a scientist, but a musician by training.

[reprobate]

54. Personally, I find it fascinating.

Fascinating to watch the devolution of a society. How long before we all are sitting around the tribal fire and grunting at the evil shadows?

[enki23]

56. evolution isn't a "theory of origin"

but then, don't expect school boards to know what the fuck they're talking about. they never have, and never fucking will.

[sweetheart]

57. I have some theories for them

I presume they'll be teaching creationism. Well in that case, they
should include the atlantis theory, that carbon dating is innacurate
over 1000's of years (how do you know that the decay is constant,
have you tested it over 1000's of years!) and that the skulls and
what not of apes and neanderthals were actually species invented in
genetic laboratories in atlantis. The atlantean people came from
outer space, and colonized this planet.

Then they intebred with their own genetic slave races, that they
bred for labour and heavy-hormone drive reproduction... so we are
1000's of years later a mixed race of partly genetically engineered
species and pure-blood atlanteans.

Geez, they could open the textbooks to science fiction authors who
could write some very convincing theories... and it would certianly
make studying human biology interesting! ;-)

[Greylyn58]

60. And So It Begins...n/t

:puke:

[barb162]

61. beginning of the end for a good education system Might as

well teach voodooo. Wonder what the science teachers think of this shit.o

[VegasWolf]

62. Reality check, we stand bravely at the abyss of the 21st century

with half our population trying to crank it back to the 19th
century. We have unravelled genetic codes, parsed subatomic
particles, proven aspects of relativity theory, have
genetically cloned mammals, built super computers, etc.
And some people want us to believe that god created the
earth 5,238 years ago, on Oct. 28th, at 3:30 PM?

Pince me please, I must be dreaming!

[LibDemAlways]

63. My sixth grader is learning about

evolution in social studies. While helping her prepare for a test, I learned that Neanderthal fossils provide evidence that Neanderthals had a social conscience and cared for the sick and infirm among them. Got me thinking that Republicans have either devolved or they are direct descendents of the australopithecines - the name appropriately means "Southern Ape" - who had heads the size of baseballs and were a much more primitive species.

[Jack Schitt]

64. Um...Creationism has no business in schools.

That's what church and Sunday school is for.

The theory of evolution is based on a lot of hard evidence. Creationism is based on nothing but blind faith. You can see evolution in action in fossils and today. You cannot see any evidence of creationism.

There's a huge difference.

God damn these RW Fundies. :grr:

[Kool Kitty]

66. Republicans=Flat Earth Society.

[DemBones DemBones]

71. I thought all the creationists

lived in the South. <sarcasm>

[One_Life_To_Give]

72. You've got to be blank-ing me

No offence to the messengers

What part of 'Science' do they fail to understand.

Reproducable under experiment! They can't strictly acount for all forces, so it can't be reproduced in the lab.

Evalution as a process is fact, not theory. It's only as a oragin of the species Homosapien, that it lakes sufficient proof to be more than a theory.

[Godhumor]

76. So...

I have always been of the opinion that if a state passes a law saying that creationism belongs in public schools, they should also pass a law saying evolution needs to be taught in Sunday School--you know, equal time, and all that junk.

Amazing how they will insist science doesn't belong in church, but they will have no problem with religion being in school...sigh.

[newyawker99]

92. Hi Godhumor!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[Autobot77]

78. The irony of this is

The fundies say they are against evolution, yet they adhere to a political philosophy that is essentially social darwinism.

[Behind the Aegis]

79. And so it starts

It won't be much longer until the people of this country are unable to compete in the world..PERIOD! I used to work at universities and we had REMEDIAL writing and reading classes! WTF?! Now, it will be people coming out of HS will be so stupid, that we will have to dumb down college even further. We are already #14 in education world-wide. How much further will we slip?

[Strawman]

81. Will that include Spinal Tap's "Rock N' Roll Creation?"n/t

[HappinessPie]

85. LOL - "And he looked...and he saw...that it was GOOD!" n/m

[FM Arouet666]

82. The American Dark Age

Its war. The fundamentalists have been slowly waging this for years. Now, our whole government has gone fundie. Just don't get it. We oppose the Taliban for extreme fundie beliefs, yet pursue extreme Christian beliefs here in the US.

[mainer]

84. National Geographic has Evolution as its cover story this month!

Read it -- it's a great, lucid article pointing out that the utter logic of evolutionary theory.

[VegasWolf]

86. So exactly how is this supposed to work, when the teacher

begins to talk about positrons, he/she must also pause
and say "oh by the way, jesus turned water into wine?"

[DuaneBidoux]

89. Message to students: You didn't want to go to an Ivy League School right?