Gay community fears new era of intolerance

[kskiska]

Equality campaigners are in despair at the rise of the homophobic right


In the bars and cafes of Dupont Circle, the centre of Washington DC's gay scene, the mood is funereal. The American gay community, already reeling from a 'broad and widespread assault' under a Bush presidency, now feels under siege from the country itself.

A week before polling day Washington hosted its annual High Heels Race, a sprint by drag queens that drew large and noisy crowds, both gay and straight. It was a moment of celebration, alive with the optimistic anticipation of a Kerry victory. This weekend, after 11 states voted strongly against gay marriage and civil unions and elected Republicans who had run 'gay-baiting' campaigns, gay advocates are talking about their worst crisis since the Reagan administration or even the Stonewall riots of 1969.

Some are talking about leaving America for good. Performance artist Tim Miller fought a high-profile funding battle with the National Endowment for the Arts that went to the Supreme Court. After travelling to Britain tomorrow for a series of shows, he says he may not return. The Californian, like thousands of gay Americans, is caught in a double bind: he is in a country he feels is rejecting him, and in a relationship with a partner who the authorities will not allow to live in America without the protection of marriage or civil union, which it is not prepared to give. 'My partner has a UK passport,' said Miller. 'We are never sure whether he can stay. What little political hope we had for change has been wiped out. On Monday there were limits on Bush's power. On Tuesday night we had to have a serious conversation about whether we wanted to carry on struggling and feeling like third-class citizens.

more…
http://www.guardian.co.uk/gayrights/story/0,12592,1345502,00.html

[Bluebear]

1. Thanks for the link, I thought you were talking about DU!

:)

[donheld]

133. Vandalism in Denver

The Denver Post

Businesses with gay clienteles vandalized
Windows have been shot out at one concern six times. Some are worried that such crimes are increasing.
By Abigail Chin
Denver Post Staff Writer

Sunday, November 07, 2004 -

Six times this year, managers say, vandals have shot out the windows of Rocky Mountain Pink Pages - a magazine with offices on Colfax Avenue that showcases gay-friendly businesses.

Most of the drive-by pellet-gun shootings have happened in the dark of night and early morning.

But the vandals seem to have gotten more brazen lately: In the most recent incident, they shot holes in Pink Pages' windows at noon - while employees were inside.

"What if they start using bullets?" said Ronnie Suba, general manager of Pink Pages, which was hit by vandals twice last month, police said.

The pellets "are getting bigger, and one almost came through the second pane of the window."

Suba and others who run businesses and organizations that cater to gays and lesbians worry that such acts are on the rise.

There have been at least eight instances of vandalism against gay-oriented businesses this year in Denver, owners say. Four other times, vandals targeted a gay-and-lesbian community center.

At least three other gay- owned business along South Broadway have been hit by taggers spraying anti-gay graffiti on windows.

The numbers are likely much higher; many businesses do not even report that type of vandalism to police.

The Denver Police Department does not specifically track crimes against gay- and lesbian- owned businesses, and it could not say whether such crimes are on the rise.

But the Colorado Anti-Violence Program has seen an increase in reports of bias-motivated violence, including vandalism, hate mail, physical assault and verbal abuse, said Avy Skolnik, the program's direct services coordinator.

There are also a lot more that go unreported, Skolnik said.

"We are only seeing a small snapshot of the reality out there," he said.

Other businesses say they've been victimized by vandals on the same nights Pink Pages was hit.

The We Co., also on Colfax, used to sell novelty items geared toward the gay community, such as rainbow flags and clothes with pride colors.

The store was forced out of business because windows that were repeatedly shot out became too expensive to replace, Suba said.

And The Center, a gay, lesbian, bisexual and transgender community center, was hit four times by vandals this year before property management replaced the broken windows with plywood.

"Short of stationing somebody in the building across the street, there is really no way to deal with it," said Art Thompson, executive director of the Center.

When these types of acts are known or reported to authorities, police supervisors notify patrol and beat officers to be on the alert during their rounds.

"They would make a point of driving by these locations more often than they normally would be," said Denver police spokeswoman Virginia Lopez.

For whatever reason, sometimes businesses do not report the acts of vandalism, and "if we don't know about it, we can't do anything about it," Lopez said.

Colorado Anti-Violence executive director Denise de Percin said police could be doing more, starting with documenting violence against the gay community and other groups.

People have the mentality of "if we don't know it's happening, we don't have to deal with it," de Percin said.

George Blackert, owner of Heaven Sent Me, a gay-pride store on South Broadway, said he has had to clean derogatory markings off his windows more than once this year.

Even so, Blackert said, the vandalism is more of an inconvenience or annoyance than a real threat to his business, at least so far.

"In every society you've got your idiots," Blackert said.

The Center and two other gay-owned businesses in Denver received threatening phone calls this year, de Percin said.

The Center hired a security guard for a few days and made him very visible, Thompson said.

"It caused us to revisit some of our crisis procedures and protocol on how we would deal with an active threat," he said.

Suba said Pink Pages has lost two employees because of the recent vandalism. And who knows how many customers have been afraid to walk inside, he said.

One employee feared for her life sitting in front of a window with six holes in it, Suba said.

"She just packed her stuff, looked at the window, looked at me and said, 'I can't take this anymore,"' Suba said.

But Suba said he will not give in to the vandals. He vowed to stand strong, no matter how many times his windows are shot up.

"We're not moving," he said. "We will not be intimidated."

Staff writer Abigail Chin can be reached at 303-820-1201 or [e-mail] .

[NVMojo]

2. I fear for gays and anyone different from the koolaid drinking

repuke gang ....big time fear...

[Maat]

4. I'm doing everything I can to support my LGBT friends...

no, we did not lose the election because of that issue,
the fundies hate everyone but fellow fundies,
no, they will not succeed,
I'm encouraging my gay friend to abandon Oklahoma for California,
and ... they will not win in the end (fundies).

[Lorien]

42. Me too

I won't back down in fighting for equal rights for my Gay and Lesbian friends-and if the Democratic party chooses to, then I'll find myself a new political party!

[iamjoy]

120. Here! Here!

If the Democrats abandon the Reproductive Rights or Gay Rights platform, I will join the Green Party.

[Dem2theMax]

131. And I'll be joining you. I will NOT stand for the discrimination of

anyone on any grounds. Period. :nuke:

[fishnfla]

3. I'm guessing Matthew Shepard Republicans instead of the log cabin

and I'm fearing more violence against gays. And single moms too.

[iamjoy]

118. Don't Go To South Carolina

Really. The guy who won the Senate race there said that Single Moms and Homosexuals weren't morally fit to be teachers.

And I don't think narrow minded bigots are morally fit to be Senators, but too bad most of SC doesn't feel the same.

[MatrixEscape]

Reasonable concerns ...

I have had discussions during the pre-election period with people about gay issues, (I am straight) and did much to remind them that the struggle of the oppressed in a country like America is very important to a plural, Democratic society.

I actually made some ground. I would like to express my solidarity on this front! That is what America means to me.

[FM Arouet666]

5. Feels like Germany in the early thirties.

Gays are not the only ones. I have spent the day looking for jobs abroad and info regarding immigration. I recall a documentary about Germany, the gays, intellectuals, entertainers all got out of Germany living her to the community of the people. We all know how that worked out.

[iamjoy]

119. My Husband Said The Same

He wondered after it was apparent Bush would get his second term if this was how reasonable Germans felt in the early 1930's like, "what the heck is happening to my country?"

[freetobegay]

6. What about the homophobic left?

They scare me even more! At least on the right I know my enemy.

[WindRavenX]

13. Yeah dude

Scary shit. I was ashamed to see such homophobia on this site after Kerry lost :mad:

[TankLV]

100. Me too.

[okieinpain]

32. do you have links.

[foreigncorrespondent]

50. Hell!!!

Just do a search on gay marriage and set the search for the last five days. You will get a ton of links.

[bliss_eternal]

7. this is horrible

:(

[Erika]

8. Bush's sell out

He spoke to the Log Cabin Republicans in his 2000 campaign. Since then he's kicked them at every opportunity.

[queerart]

124. Sad, Sad, Sad Log Cabin Republicans

[saigon68]

9. The homophobes have only begun to Bash

Armed with "Capital" you are going to see a lot of New Fred Phelps supporters



Notice the "Family Values" with the kids getting involved

[FizzFuzz]

61. true, now they have the Emperor's blessing

this is just reprehensible.
In my department at work theres a lot of fundies and alot of gay/gay-friendly/alternative folk.

How those goddamned self-righteous prigs could work and be friends with gays and lesbians, then go vote for this hate-monger, and then say "but we can still be friends"......

I feel so sick to my stomach

[saigon68]

70. Look for a lot of open homophobia

This is the way that certain christians whip up "the faithful"






Notice the Child Friendly atmosphere and the men playing "leap frog".

[Laughing Mirror]

76. Those Victorians in those pictures are obsessed with sex

That's what their problem is. The cute little girl in the baseball cap holding the buggery poster doesn't look like she's having much fun however. I hope she doesn't have nightmares from this.

The FAGS ARE BEASTS sign reminds me of some racist pamphlet I saw back around the time of the civil rights movement in the early sixties. "Negro: Man or Beast" was the seemingly controversial title. I don't remember if I was able to read enough to find out what was the conclusion it drew.

Thanks for posting these "protest" pictures Saigon. This shit has been around since we gay people started protesting. We live with it and laugh at it. I wish I could find a picture of a Goodyear Blimp (or was it an airplane skywriting? my memory is confused) flying over crowds of hundreds of thousands people at a gay pride parade in New York years ago with the message from Jesus, "God Hates You." They know they've got to have their facts straight, so the boy in the picture above points us to specifically to that place in the New Testament, Romans 9:13, where it says just that.

[FizzFuzz]

77. I'm not sure if our printer can handle this but if it can

I will print this and give it to any fundy who gets twinkly with me.

I think something like some bible quotes too, might be useful like the one about "by their fruits shall ye know them." Hate is the fruit of bush's actions. I'm not bible literate.

[Amigust]

138. The top guy looks like he's about three beers away from giving head.

[ignatius 2]

108. And so yet another generation is being taught hate and bigotry by

those wonderful roll models, their parents. Makes me a stronger believer yet in birth control.

[OutsourceBush]

10. "rise of the homophobic right" ? huh?

This is total bull sh*t. The homophobic right has not risen, it has always been there and the left has done everything to piss them off and motivate them to vote. We gotta STOP using the word marriage for gays. Is that so fucking hard to comprehend?

I can't believe that we got people willing to throw the entire party into the sh*t can over a fucking word. Even the idiot GW Bush said he would support equal rights for gays as domestic partners as long as they didn't use the word marriage.

Now we gotta put up with that illiterate fucking monkey Bush for another 4 years because of squabbling over a fucking meaningless word.

[freetobegay]

15. I think it's more than just a word

But hey you got your rights screw mine.

[OutsourceBush]

18. Right now you are screwing mine and everyone else's for a fucking

word...

What makes that nuclear political gay activist attitude any better than the sick repukes that would nuke everyone if they don't get their way with religion??? Same sh*t.

We gotta come to agreements that work for everyone and stop masturbating on fucking meaningless words that LOSE an election and screws everyone in the process. If you got your rights, fuck the words. I wanna live in a free country thank you. Not the Nazi state that you are helping along with your nuclear political war.

[freetobegay]

20. No retreat, no surrender!

When I am considered equal then I will look for middle ground. Until then fuck anybody thats thinks they are better than me!

[OutsourceBush]

22. You are fucking yourself...

Hope you love 4 more years of Bush. Enjoy!

The only way I can deal with this sh*t for the next 4 years is to somehow get entertainment watching all the idiots on both side fucking themselves to make a point.

[freetobegay]

24. You just don't get it do you.

[OutsourceBush]

25. Yea, I got it

You want to prove a point with the fucking word 'marriage' that Christian loooove so much that they all went out and voted against Dems so bad that you fucked me and every other Dem for 4 years. I got it loud and clear. Thanks! Thanks for helping me get it.

You really want to keep arguing this point?

[freetobegay]

28. Like I said you just don't get

Are you Married? Can you visit your spouse in the Hospital? Can you join in a legal contract for a loan? God forbid one of you should die & the other leave all in the will, can your family take it away from you? It's more than just a word my friend.

[OutsourceBush]

33. Bush offered you all that

What do you not understand. Even the Chimp agreed to give gays these rights. Repukes agreed to this with no problem. Your homophobic enemies agreed to all of this.

No... your problem is with a WORD, not the rights. The rupukes will give you the rights, under a different word.

As for 'am I married', no I live with my girl friend and I would not get any of the shit you ask for but I would certainly have no problem with getting those rights with a different word/s such as "domestic partner". Why should I give a shit if I get everything with my GF that a married couple gets? Hell, I would would be happy. Except for the divorce thing. Maybe they could leave that out of the agreement.


"Can you visit your spouse in the Hospital? Can you join in a legal contract for a loan? God forbid one of you should die & the other leave all in the will, can your family take it away from you? It's more than just a word my friend."

[Name removed]

34. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

35. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[freetobegay]

36. How classic make a claim that you can't prove.

You just outed yourself! LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[OutsourceBush]

38. you 2 years old?

[freetobegay]

39. Man you missed your calling in life!

You should have been a comedian!

[OutsourceBush]

41. Bush's gay union stance irks conservatives

Obviously I know more about your SINGLE ISSUE voting than you do.

The Associated Press

Updated: 3:05 p.m. ET Oct. 26, 2004WASHINGTON - Some conservative groups expressed dismay Tuesday over President Bush’s tolerance of state-sanctioned civil unions between gay people — laws that would grant same-sex partners most or all the rights available to married couples.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6338458/

[sonicx]

60. "state-sanctioned"

You said Bush offered gays civil unions. no he didn't. he said he doesn't care if states do it. He's not gonna do shit federally. Bush himself is personally against civil unions and he opposed having them in Texas while he was governer.

[spanone]

88. Your pink panties are showing my friend. Bush HATES gays.

But he must love folks like you who defend homobashing.

[OutsourceBush]

91. Calling people on your side that are trying to help you a homo-basher

does not garner you more support. You really should re-think that approach.

[Name removed]

101. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Amigust]

139. Oct. 26, 2004 - Notice the date ? The fight had already been fought.

He also supported the marriage amendment that banned benefits before that. Get it straight.

Does he mean what he said Oct. 26? Do you believe what * says?

[foreigncorrespondent]

54. Oh he did huh?

So tell me, when did those homophobic assholes begin writing up plans to introduce a civil unions bill into Congress? Only thing I have heard about is Musgrave saying she will re-introduce the FMA next year. So much for promises. Haven't you heard Bush* lies?

[Chelsea Patriot]

127. You Don't get it, freetobegay!

There's no consensus in our community on the marriage issue!

I have been in a registered domestic partnership here in NYC for ten years.

My partner and I do not consider our partnership a "Marriage" Nor do any of the other male/male couples we know see themselves as being in a marriage. The couples I know do not care what the term is. The rights are what we want. Our NYC domestic partnership grants us every one of those rights you threw out in our post.

If I find the arguments gay marriage activists make ridiculous, specious and laughable to the point of camp, what must Middle America make of them?

A marriage is historical institution that has always been between men and women.

What is so difficult for you Marriage activists to grasp about that indisputable fact?

My Friends in Ohio have now lost their domestic partnership rights because you have selfishly demanded Marriage at all costs.

What do you say to them?

[OutsourceBush]

129. I think he will call you homophobic

for saying what I have been saying.

A *word* is not worth 4 more years of fascism, loss of existing rights, jobs, health care, etc., etc., under Bush. It is unfortunate that you are homosexual and sooooo homophobic. :-)

Your mind is just not right! You actually want to win elections...BAD YOU!!!

[Amigust]

136. To blame gay marriage advocates for the issue is totally specious.

Gays marriage advocates aren't the ones who brought up the issue, they didn't feel the timing was right yet and would have been happy to wait for years more before bringing it up.

It was the theocrat extremists working hand in hand with GOP strategists who made it an issue. Gays and gay supporters only had a choice to fight back or roll over. It seems to me you would have them say, "yes, massa, you go ahead and have your way with me, it's ok, massa, whatever you want, massa, I know I ain't worth nothin' so you go ahead, massa."

The right wing is playing you like a violin when they get you to turn on other Dems. Direct your wrath at the hatemongers who are really behind it all and make a lasting impression there. Hasten the backlash against the theocrats.

[Name removed]

59. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Robert of Locksley]

89. Moral values???

OutsourceBush wrote:

>You want to prove a point with the fucking word 'marriage' that Christian loooove so much that they all went out and voted against Dems so bad that you fucked me and every other Dem for 4 years. I got it loud and clear. Thanks! Thanks for helping me get it.<

Wow. Talk about spineless.

So basically you'd support "anything" in order to see your party win? How pathetic. I'm sure Mandela would have been released from prison early if he'd just admitted that apartheid was wonderful and blacks were inferior. What a moron loser he was, huh?

Certain things are negotiable - but prejudice is not.

If the Democrats toss all their values just to "win", then they deserve to lose. It's the most cowardly, craven thing a party can do - to join their opponents in demonizing a minority in order to siphon votes.

Kerry lost because the Republicans played to the absolute worst in human beings - is that what you want to do to win? No wonder they say the Dems have no moral values if there are Dems like you out there.

[sffreeways]

26. You are wasting your time

on someone that has obvious problems with homosexuality. I say that because Kerry lost because of cheating not gays. The same people that vote for republicans because they hate gays are the same people that always vote for them for that reason. They gay marriage issue was on the table last election, same result.

Clinton ran on allowing Gays to serve in the military, he won twice.

This poster doesn't understand this issue and doesn't have a clear understanding of the facts.

So you are only fueling the misdirected anger and validating the ignorance.

[foreigncorrespondent]

53. Well I hope you enjoy...

...a republican controlled government for the '08 presidential election as well, because while you are here arguing about the word marriage, they are stealing votes through diebold. You think this election was the last they were planning on stealing? Think again!

[George_S]

31. The Reacts Define the Issues

And this is part of the reason they can. Reacts frame their issues in words and images that their base will listen to. They appeal to them. They don't say "fuck you, do it my way or the highway." Bush is saying that now because he has a man-date, but he isn't saying it to anyone he wants to appeal to.

Reacts also framed the abortion issue and called the latest issue "partial birth abortion." From what I head about it, I was against it too. Popping a baby out and crushing its live skull just doesn't sound like pro-choice to me. Sounds more like murder.

So if you want use "gay marriage" and be proud, then that is your choice, but don't be surprised if no one listens when in the same breath you say "fuck you, do it my way or the highway." It will be the highway every time. Same with abortion.

It's like we are trying stuff our morality down their throats without their permission, and that is exactly what we used to rant about with them. I've mentioned this before, why not call it pro-love? How can pro-lifers object to that? And it could be that the pro-choice people demanded too much too. I don't know.

But I don't blame anyone for losing the election. Maybe it was stolen, maybe not. We'll see. Either way, the Reacts did get out the vote even if they did cheat.

Whatever. Regrouping and creating a new strategy is normal after a defeat.

[sffreeways]

23. Were you listening

when John Kerry and John Edwards said that Marriage would be between a man and a woman ?

You deserve your Nazi country, you'll be quite comfortable. You're willing to believe anything they tell you in the face of the facts.

Capitulation was what the German people did too.

[OutsourceBush]

27. You really believe your own BS?

You think one little legalese statement about marriage from Kerry was going to change people's perceptions? Do you? Or do you just play everyone on DU for stupid, like Bush plays repukes for stupid?

[sffreeways]

29. A little legalese ?

No, many posting on this thread appear to be perfectly intelligent. You are the exception obviously. If you weren't so turned on by your anger your curiosity would permit you to see the obvious.

Gays and Lesbians are NOT going to give up their pursuit of their civil rights to please people like you and Fred Phelps not matter how much spittle hits your computer screen.

[Name removed]

30. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[sffreeways]

37. Seperate but equal

we don't do in this country. And marriage is a religious ceremony and gays couldn't care less they have churches that are perfectly willing to perform that ceremony. The amendments are to prevent any recognition of a gay relationship. You are confused if you believe otherwise.

What the government calls marriage is a civil ceremony. Gays aren't splitting the semantic hairs here you are.

Gays want all the rights and privilages afforded to heterosexuals. That is not what people voting against gay marriage are willing to give no matter what name you give it.

Rove created this smoke screen to justify the votes for Kerry that went to Bush through the black box cheating. The exit polls vs the actual votes show that clearly.

Level headed people analyzing what has happened see this very clearly. You are enraged and want to scapegoat an easy target. Your candidate was very specific about Gay marriage. If your argument is that this was legalese and that voters saw through it then they must have percieved he would support civil unions and they weren't going to allow that either.

That isn't the case. All the polling shows that the majority of American voters would support civil unions. Gays would support them as well if those unions were equal to the same union called marriage.

Vent your anger at the fascists that have stolen yet another election or the people that think Sadam was involved with 9/11. Be angry with the democrats that voted for Bush because they believe he would be stronger on terrorism or that it's not good to change presidents in the middle of a war.

Insisting that John Kerry lost the election because some people don't want gays using the word marriage when John Kerry said he opposed gay marriage is bizzare.

Oh, and I wouldn't **** you with Fred Phelp's ****.

[Arroyo]

48. I agree with your criticism

of the other guy's post, but I disagree with your assessment of what Americans feel about civil unions. The only polling that matters is on election day, and people consistently vote against gays. Maybe in a poll they're likely to pretend to be more openminded than they really are, but when they get behind the curtain, they vote their fear of gays. This is not a very enlightened or twenty-first centuryish country.

[sffreeways]

55. This is true

this country votes it's bigotry. I have seen polls that suggest people are more comfortable with civil unions than Marriage. They seem to confuse the religious ceremony with the civil ceremony.

Your point though illustrates exactly what I am trying to convey to the angry poster. That is it's not really about the word at all. As I pointed out Kerry was adamant about being opposed to gay marriage. The poster insists that the gay community self destructively clings to the term marriage and this cost Kerry the election yet Kerry was clear about Marriage and vague about civil unions.

The ballot measures that won opposed both civil unions and gay marriage and basically so did Kerry. He never came out and declared "civil marriage" was the solution.

And if the subject of gay marriage was so important then how can Cheney's position opposing Bush on the amendment and his openly lesbian daughter having no effect be explained.

The exit polls named moral values which does not translate to gay marriage. If it were gay marriage voters would have simply said so. Americans have been bombarded with propaganda intended to convince them that democrats are not moral. Not moral has many implications in the minds of the christian voter. Sex on television, abortion, single mothers. Moral Values is an umbrella term and zeroing in on gays by some democrats as being the only issue says more about the democrat that's blaming gays.

And I agree with the opinion that Roves strategy has been to immasculate our condidates. They did it to Al Gore and to Kerry and Edwards. Gays have nothing to do with conservatives characterizing liberals as "fags". The bottom line is sexism. What they are doing is asserting that liberal men are like women and there is nothing worse than a man to be like a woman. It's women conservatives have a problem with ultimately.

[foreigncorrespondent]

52. We are NOT screwing with your rights at all!!!

The LGBT community supported Kerry by a majority in this election. They still voted for him even though they knew he did not support gay marriages, only civil unions. What does that tell you about us and a word? It should be telling you we don't give a shit about the word anymore, we just want the rights that have been stollen from us.

Are you even aware that in some of the 11 states that decided on the gay marriage ban, that they also voted to ban any form of recognition for same sex relationships? And you wanna accuse us of treading on your rights. Sheesh mate, if you fall in love with someone from another country, you can sponsor them tomorrow, but my partner who I have been with for almost five years now, doesn't have that right.

I am just lucky that her family is so accepting of our relationship, because I know, if anything (God forbid) happened to my partner, and she was in hospital, they would make sure I could see her. I bet you don't have to worry about not being able to see your loved one in hospital, huh?

Next time, please get your facts right, and don't accuse us of "masturbating" on any word. I Have held you in high regard on DU for quite a while, I really don't want that regard to diminish.

[Child_Of_Isis]

64. Free country.

Just don't use the word gay and marriage in the same sentence. :eyes:

[Arroyo]

46. Are you for real?

Why not blame blacks for losing the South? They had to go insisting on their rights! What's a little "blacks only" sign?

I don't remember Kerry being for gay marriage or any gay constituency insisting that he take this stand. I remember an election season filled with gay-baiting, a slew of anti-gay marriage initiatives designed to draw the homophobia to the surface, insinuations that Kerry and Edwards might be lovers because they touch each other too much and charges that Kerry was "effeminate." Homophobia lost the election. People are virulent homophobes, and they should be ashamed of themselves. You don't sacrifice certain groups for political expediency, though, or you're not fundamentally different from the other side.

What's more, if you really think it's just a word, what's the problem with using it for "civil unions"?

[MADem]

47. I think we should STOP USING THE WORD for STRAIGHTS

as well.

I think that 'marriages' should happen in churches--EXCLUSIVELY. Regardless of orientation. You can define "church" as "House of Worship" and play it any way you want. Everything else is a contractual arrangement, a civil union, as it were. If we divorce a religious ceremony, marriage, from a state-sponsored contract that happens at city hall in front of a JP (civil unions), a lot of this crap goes away.

It will appease the homophobes, too, because they can satisfy themselves that "their god" didn't approve it....at least until liberal churches start in sanctifying civil unions in holy matrimony. It will be some time before mainline churches so do, and the rightwing churches probably never will...but who cares. Let them stew in their hate. It's not like people who really live a genuine moral (kind, caring, charitable, tolerant) life would want to attend those hate-filled services anyway, so they wouldn't have to worry about anyone who wasn't a "right" thinker peeing in the punch at their church supper.

But there are plenty of other liberal churches who will get the spirit, eventually, if they haven't already. In the People's Commonwealth of Massachusetts, I can tell you that the crisp fall days have arrived, and the sky has not fallen. The change in the law has done nothing more than throw a little more business to florists, wedding planners, caterers, wait staff, and venue owners. Oh, and made a few people happy, I'm sure.

But the assignment of marriage as a church function is an interesting methodology to triangulate the issue and let the hateful fuckers think they've won....just long enough for us to take over the House and Senate and initiate chimpeachment proceedings.

[theHandpuppet]

62. EDUCATE YOURSELF BEFORE YOU MOUTH OFF

"Marriage" is not just a word. There are very serious legal differences between the rights granted in marriage and those of a civil union -- primarily in the arena of federal protections.

Perhaps it's time for you to visit the website of the Human Rights Campaign at hrc.org so you can educate yourself on the issues before opining about them.

[GarySeven]

11. They should be. There's a concentration camp in their future.

[RaRa]

12. Probably been mentioned before here but

I spoke with some friends today who had a new incite (for me) about this whole gay marriage issue thing. They are convinced it has all to do with money; that it's the insurance companies who are afraid of insuring additional people, plus the additioanl HIV coverage etc.

I don't know; makes sense to me that it's all about big business and money and in turn convincing the average dumb-fuck that they should care.

Why can't or doesn't the DNC push our strengths - that the repukes want to screw anyone earning less than $250K/yr and that the GOP is hiding behind their hypocritical religion shield?

[Iceburg]

125. O christ ...If that was true, lesbians should get their insurance

for free since they have the lowest incidence of HIV!
"Incite" (as opoosed in insight) is right RA RA...

I really don't know how any gay or lesbian could contemplate living in America.

[sffreeways]

14. And even worse

Democrats have been fooled into thinking this is why Kerry lost rather than the real reason. The black Box voting. The predictable cheating. Another stolen election another coup.

Here the day after the election many members were spewing vile blame on the gay community as though they have no heterosexual support or even republican support for their right to marry or at least have civil unions. But the exit polling clearly shows the moral value issue had little to do with the Kerry loss. It was a clever cover for the disparity in the exit polls.

I posted this in another thread but it's relevant here so I'm posting it again. I apologize in advance for being repetitive.

Now I hope those DU'ers that blamed the gay community and called them "selfish" and proclaimed "they didn't care about John Kerry only themselves" are hanging their empty heads in desperate shame. I lost a whole lot of respect for a whole lot of democrats on this site on Wed.

Pfffft only care about themselves. I never thought I'd see something so offensive here. In the 4 years I've been posting here I've never...NEVER been so ashamed of my party.

The GLBT community volunteers, donates, contributes even to a candidate that was clear about his position on their civil rights very clear about his position about their desire to live the American dream like he can. He opposed gay marriage. HE OPPOSED gay marriage. If the bigots didn't believe him is that the fault of the Gay and Lesbian Community ?

He opposed their rights under the constitutions equal protection clause an opposition based soley on religious reason. There is no other argument against extending these rights. This violates the separation between church and state so that it can violate the equal rights of Americans.

But the community knowing this supported John Kerry for the greater good and this is selfish. How much more selfless can this people be ? I guess we are about to find out because if what was being posted here is any indication of the support gays can expect in the future life is about to become very very difficult and this community is about to go back to being very isolated.

John Kerry and John Edwards were very clear, marriage would be between a man and a woman and still they (the gay community) sacrificed their own interests for the good of the nation and overwhelmingly voted for John Kerry. But that's not good enough. For the moral values crowd and the Kerry must win at any cost crowd, that wasn't harsh enough. Not far enough. We need the bigot vote to win ?

But they stole the election again. But it's homosexuals that selfishly lost the election for Kerry. This makes them....not good democrats.

But Gays worry about someone else's kids dying in Iraq. Some have children but most do not. Gays are concerned with the education of someone else's children, they understand we all benefit from a more educated population. Gays on average do well economically but they care about working families with children, single mothers, people needing welfare, after school programs, a womens right to choose an abortion an act most gays and lesbians will never need to choose. They pay school taxes to educate children they are told they are unfit to have of their own or untrustworthy to teach or adopt. Some homosexuals are parents but many are not yet most are democrats even though their party does not support their full pursuit of their constitutional guarantee to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. And who are the child molesters ? Why the same folks that claim moral values were their reasons for voting for Bush. 1 in 4 children are molested in this country by a heterosexual family member before the age of twelve. Many are sexually assaulted by priests and ministers the "moral values" voters.

What a sinister and perfectly evil strategy was employed here. To turn the party they have been so dedicated to against them by having it appear as though it's their fault Kerry lost. A double edge sword. Alienate the gay vote by fooling democrats into believing they lost for defending their homosexual compatriots. Because the Gays pushed their selfish agenda. Drive them from the party and the party looses the millions of gay votes and the hundreds of thousands of committed and loyal volunteers. Not only do they hate them but now they have engineered a way for their own party to loathe them as well.

They stole the damn thing again just as we knew they would. That they would loose seemed so impossible many of us here expected an attack and suspension of the right to vote before they let John Kerry win. They had way too much to loose. Hell, the potential for being exposed as having known about the attacks on 9/11 ? Huh !

Moral values my ass, they needed a way to cover up the disparity and naturally many Americans would believe the hatred of homosexuals would
motivate the masses. Even those of us that support our gay and lesbian friends and family could believe the hatred toward them would be more important than jobs, the economy, the war to the opposition and even to those in our own party. Only it's not true. John Kerry is our President just as Al Gore was our last President. And the effort by the Gay community helped them win but those that hate them helped them cheat.

We are left with one question. How far will we be willing to go now that we know how far they are willing to go.

Shame on those democrats here and all over America that believed the lie and turned their rage on such loyal, gentle, selfless and kind friends.

And to the person that announced that Gavin Newsom handed the election to Bush, you are no liberal, you have no principle, no pride, and no idea about what is right and good and just. You probably would have said the same of Martin Luther King. I'll never understand or remotely respect a human being so shallow.

And now we not only have to fear the enemies of America, and our conservative enemies but now we apparently have enemies in our own party.

Yes, Gays have much to be concerned about. The clock has been turned back to a time when we were on our own again. Sad I'd say. Very sad.

[foreigncorrespondent]

57. Thank you!!!

Your post has truly brought me to tears. I know the thread you originally posted this in, only I didn't see your original post.

Once again, thank you, from the bottom of my heart, for defending the community I belong to, so eloquently.

[iamjoy]

121. It Moved Me Too.

and I am straight. Perhaps because my husband and I are so happily married I just can't understand why some one would deny that right to two people just because they are of the same gender.

and I am angry too when people blame the pro-choice crowd for Kerry's loss.

Moving to the right will not help. Brad Carson was no friend of gays or abortion rights and he still lost the Oklahoma Senate race to some one far more extreme.

[mahatmakanejeeves]

16. Gays ponder * victory

Gays ponder * victory

[Spangle]

17. Gay friend at work told me he voted for Bush

But was for sure Kerry would win. I'm feeling to raw this week to ask and HEAR the "why" of that one.

One of my daughters friends also said she voted for Bush because of the abortion issue. I guess the fact that she is gay wasn't enough of an issue for her to think about.

Sorry, I'm just a little pissed that people would cut their own nose off, inspite of their own face.

[freetobegay]

19. Self hate runs rampant in the Gay community.

It's how the older generation was raised that Homosexuality is a sin.

[queerart]

126. THANK YOU FREE!

You are so correct....

and at the risk of being a "Queer Nit Picker".....

There are still "throngs" of Queer Self Loathers.......

For some bizzare reason they are still there??

Even with the advent of T.V., Movies, and the friggin' internet!

It is way fucking beyond me!

[VegasWolf]

21. Gay's should be afraid, very afraid, they'll probably put a rider

outlawing sodomy on their new Amendment.

[GinaMaria]

40. I fear there will be increasing and open hostility toward GLBT

Seems like the rethugs have made gay bashing a spiritual must for all good christians :eyes:

I'm worried.

[JusticeForAll]

43. Don't fear it hon

believe it. Did you read the earlier responses from our homophobic left? It's bad enough we have enemies on the right.

[GinaMaria]

90. I'm on your side

It's not much, but I will always stand up for you. There are many battles ahead. Call on me when you need me. I do believe it, that's why I fear it. Causing this much pain is destructive to everyone.

I don't understand the phobia especially on the left. Is love so common that we can scrap it so easily? I think it's rare to find someone who gets you, loves you, respects you and who you share similar values and goals with. It took me 40 years to find my soul mate. Doesn't this come down to love? Does anyone control who they fall in love with? It's insane. How can we deny anyone expression of love? To me, there is no freedom without the freedom to express love.

We are a f'ed up society. We have no difficulty with violence and anger and aggression but we fear love and the expression of love. Shouldn't this be reversed?

Sending you a virtual hug,
Gina

[Amigust]

140. the phobia especially on the left

The Democratic Party is a fractious bunch of people who will have to learn to march together and learn how to support one another to ever make any headway from this point. This circular firing squad is pretty ridiculous. The GOP has shown what it takes to win. Can we appropriate the best of those lessons and leave the rest on their side? Would this country be worth living in at all if both parties were clones in every way?

[keopeli]

44. As a gay man, I think there is room for common ground on this issue

Here are the caveats - remember, compromise

1. If the problem is the word, then we can compromise on that. Marriage is between a man and a woman. If I got my way, I'd want Marriage to be defined as between a Christian man and a Christian woman. That would be more accurate for the people who have an issue with the word.

2. Every coupled humans get the same rights. All of them. Every last one. It's the American way.

3. Licences for couples, whether to Marry or to Partner, are issued by the same office, the same people, the same procedure.

4. People selecting Partnership rather than Marriage can not claim to be Married in any government court or office. (This is so the Fred Phelps crowd can feel safe from evil people like me, even though it's effectively meaningless.)

5. Corporations licenced in this country may distinguish between Married couples and Partnered couples in practice, but must distribute the same rights and priveleges to each group. (This is so the Fred Phelps crowd can feel good about being Married rather than Partnered. The seperation will be kept alive in the psyche, but not in the practice.)

There are more issues to iron out, and these aren't perfect solutions, but we CAN compromise.

Where this type of solution will really be effective is that straight couples will elect to become Partnered rather than Married. Once that happens, the fundies will no longer be able to seperate the homosexuals like me into a class against marriage. They'll have to deal with the REAL subgroup of people that favor this style of government and support gay rights, which includes more straight people than gay people.

Citizen At Large

[OutsourceBush]

45. Some of us out here have a lot more to worry about than *words*

They are outsourcing our high tech jobs faster than ever.

I would much rather have a good job than worry about stupid ass word issues. If they pay me good money they can even call it 'domestic employment" I don't give a shit. I just want a decent job. This crap about words when we got people dying for jobs and health care is total worthless crap.

[Arroyo]

49. I think you brought up words

Mind you, the article that started this thread talked about people being worried about things like gay-bashing and a hostile Supreme Court that could take away civil rights for gays. It didn't say anything about gays crying that they couldn't use a certain word.

[theHandpuppet]

65. Rather than put your ignorance on public display

Why don't you actually EDUCATE YOURSELF on the issues involved?

You can start here -- unless the FACTS are too much of a bother for you:

http://www.hrc.org/Template.cfm?Section=LGBT_Families
http://www.hrc.org/Content/NavigationMenu/HRC/Get_Informed/Issues/Index.htm

[GinaMaria]

92. I have a serious issue with your proposal

I was married in a secular civil service to my husband. We are not christians. What we have is a marriage, not a partnership and not a civil union. We have a marriage. No religeon owns that word. People married before christianity was ever invented.

I am married and my husband and I have a marriage. No one will define our relationship but us, especially some right wing nut job. We paid for and received a marriage license. End of story. We are married.

Instead of concentrating on a single word, seems to me some people should concentrate on the quality of their relationsips. No one else's relationship says anything about my marriage.

[discordian]

111. How about this...

We should let any two people get married. Anyone, and they can call it a marriage. But, we should also let any group define their particular breed of marriage. The Christians can define a Christian Marriage as a lifetime marriage between a Christian man and a Christian woman where the ceremony occurs in a Christian church by an official clergymember. The Pagans can define a Pagan Marriage as whatever they so choose. Same for the Jews, Muslims, Hindus, Buddhists, etc. Then in their own institutions, they can discriminate in favor of their version of marriage however they so choose, it's a free country.

[GinaMaria]

117. We already have that for heterosexuals

What you've defined already exits, for heterosexuals. The issue is that it is not available to homosexuals. Christians already define christian marriage. My husband and I define our marriage. Same for the Jews, Muslims, Hindus and Buddhists.

What exactly are you offering? More of the same? How about no. How about we include everyone?

[Amigust]

51. When I heard Bush saying of terrorists that he wanted to make

them unacceptable where they were, I immediately tranposed that as his intention regarding gays as well.

[sleipnir]

56. "Gay Marriage" cost us the election.

Anyone who says otherwise is a fool. Simple and sweet.

Don't worry, I totally stand behind Gay rights 100%, but that doesn't prevent me from seeing what happened these last few days.

Pity America is more interested in hate rather than love and inclusion.

[foreigncorrespondent]

58. Gay marriage didn't cost you the election!

your own complacency cost you the election.

You didn't listen to the hundrteds of posts during the last four years that stated 2004 isn't so safe either.

You didn't pay attention when all the voting problems came out in 2002.

Just think if more people got on the BBV band wagon, we wouldn't be having this conversation now, because Kerry would be the president elect.

[Florida_Geek]

63. Well I know of one never voted Repug before in his 65 yo life that

voted for Bush over this ONE point.

And for the La Ban on Gay Marriages.

[foreigncorrespondent]

66. How nice for you!

ONE! That really counts doesn't it? What the stolen votes? I am sure they add up to more than ONE!

So your point was?

[Florida_Geek]

68. oh one democrat voting for Bush's stand on this ONE issue

does not mean any thing to YOU. BUT it speaks volumes to me.

[foreigncorrespondent]

69. So...

...because of that one vote the dems must purge their party of us queers? Because we cost you the election right?

[OutsourceBush]

78. You obviously imagined it, it could not happen :-)

Everyone votes FOR gay marriage, la la la

Denial is not just a river, la la la :-)

[Skittles]

67. I don't want the gay community to leave

they need to stay and fight with us; we need them and they need us.

[weezielove]

97. me either

It's so hard to believe we're even having this conversation. It just felt like everything was moving in this nice, progressive open-minded way, and now I feel like we've been slammed back into this really icky old judgmental way of thinking.

[JusticeForAll]

71. We can take our 5% (probably more)

and leave. That would solve everything, right?

If these "from-the-left" homophobes really want that, I'd like to see their plan to capture what they will be missing when we are gone.

It's a two-way street.

[OutsourceBush]

79. If you cost us the election over a WORD I don't see what you are helping

the dems one way or the other with that fucking attitude.

Why don't you get as concerned about my job as you do about your word (marriage).

If you don't give a shit about me, why are you asking me to give a shit about a word (marriage) when you can have everything else you want. Killing the party over a WORD is bull shit. It's not a rights issue it is a SPITE issue. You are being spiteful.

If you can't get what you want, you want to fuck us all. Hell, I wish you could get the WORD marriage, but I am a realist and I don't want to keep fucking half the country who are Dems over a fucking word. But that is what we just did.

Now we got the chimp 4 more years. People don't have jobs 4 more years. People don't have health care 4 more years. Wars overseas 4 more years, bull shit from the repukes 4 more years.

We gotta start thinking and acting COLLECTIVELY as a party in order to win and quit acting pissy and spiteful if we can't get 100% of everything our way.

[VegasWolf]

80. I'm not sure why you are hung up about the word marriage, last time

I checked the proposed state admendments would
inviolate civil unions of any kind for gay people.
That's not very democratic.

[OutsourceBush]

83. Giving your enemy ammo and LOSING elections is not very democratic

[VegasWolf]

93. You didn't answer the question, what about civil unions which

give the same rights to gays? Are you aginst those too?

[OutsourceBush]

103. Dam get caught up....

I have already said, I am for Gay Marriage , For Civil Unions, etc etc.

What I am against is giving the fucking Nazi fascist republicans ammo in a close election!

Gay 'marriage' mobilized the religious wackos at a time when we could not afford it. Now look where we are at!

Yea, there were other mistakes, Kerry 'I actually voted for it before I voted against it." and a few others, but the biggest mistakes are always the ones that let the opposition mobilize against you. In this case Democrats trying for 'gay marriage' was a huge mistake in this election climate.

Rove put initiatives on various state ballots to get out the vote. Once the religious wackos went to the polls to vote against gay marriage, they also took an extra second to vote for the anti-Christ.

We would have been better off not even mentioning gay 'marriage' during the election and we could have implemented it with a President Kerry silently during the first year, so they had time to forget about it before the next election.

We, as a party, are fuck-ups. The sooner we realize this the sooner we will stop fucking up.

[VegasWolf]

104. Last I recall, it was Rove that engineered the whole gay

marriage issue. Given that Rove put it on the plate, what exactly
would have done different?

[OutsourceBush]

105. If I was Kerry I would have come out very strongly against using the word

marriage in respect to gays. I would have told the base to shut the fuck up about gay marriage (nod, wink). I would have said what ever the fuck I had to say to get elected (just like the chimp did) and then I would smoke a cigar and fuck with the repukes for 4 years.

[VegasWolf]

112. Isn't that exactly what he did, he said he didn't approve of gay

marriage "word", but allowing civil unions should be left up
to the states. I don't see what you would do differently.

[theHandpuppet]

84. I have now twice pointed out to you...

... that the issue of gay marriage (as opposed to civil unions) is more than a matter of semantics, and provided you with links where you can educate yourself on the issues involved. Since you have chosen to ignore the truth for just more hysterical, angry rhetoric, I assume that your only real interest is to cause disruption of this board and among the members here.

And BTW, there are many gay folks here who were fighting for jobs while you were probably still in diapers. Fighting for civil rights, fighting to end the Vietnam War, fighting for unions, fighting to raise the minimum wage, fighting for Affirmative Action, fighting for women's reproduction rights, fighting for all those things which -- though they may have held no potential impact on our own lives -- were simply the right things to do. And we continued to fight for those ideals in the Democratic Party in THIS election even though there are plenty of gay folks like myself for whom the "gay marriage" issue was moot -- my own state had already outlawed it BEFORE the election, and Kerry still lost WV by 13 points.

Educate yourself with the facts and then lay the blame where it truly belongs -- and it isn't with gay people in this nation.

[Amigust]

134. "job" is a word - "health care", words - "marriage", a word

"civil rights", words - "wars", a word

Agreed, we must think and act collectively as a party as well as the GOP has done, but a party for what. The stories behind those words becomes fundamentally relevant and distinguish us from the new fascists.

[JusticeForAll]

116. It's a shame you don't understand the concept.

Civil Rights, equality, and justice for all are non-negotiable.

Why are you, our homophobic left, frankly, sounding so evil?

[Wols]

72. Why should gays be worried?

The Republicans just elected at least two new Senators (SC & OK)who say that homosexuals should not be allowed to teach our children in public schools. I'm sure the next Supreme Court would never tolerate such discrimination. What's to worry about? By the way, in case anyway is particularly dense, please turn on your sarcasm detector when reading my post.

[Kber]

74. Sarcasm detector on

I agree. I don't think Jews should teach in schools either, or blacks in the newly segregated public schools for whites only.

Look - two points. First, I don't remember the LGBT community making a lot of noise about it - but when the RIGHT WING NUTS forced the issue front and center (i.e. missing weapons? No! Look over there at the two dudes kissing!) Kerry responded as honestly as he could - he wasn't going to support a roll back of civil rights and did support civil unions. They brought it up. What were we supposed to do? Agree with their hateful views? That would have lost this straight vote to Nader real quick.

Second - Hitler started with the gays. They were his "test".
When the German population went along, it was easy to move on to other groups.

To sum up - we fight this bigotry and hatred for two reasons. First - it's the right thing to do. Second, who knows who's next. We gotta stop the shit in its tracks now!

[Laughing Mirror]

75. Yes. People, whoever they are, however they define themselves

have got to stand together as a bulwark against this steamroller trying to flatten us into the ground. But they won't because we just won't let them.

Our goal is to expand civil rights to all our citizens, not take chip away at them or take back ones we gained, just as they want to do with abortion and as they did with the death penalty and the Patriot Act. We have got to move forward, move the way the rest of the civilized world is moving, not backward and worse than the way we were.

[weezielove]

99. this is scarier than I thought

[ElsewheresDaughter]

73. i hope the bush voting gay nieghbors of mine find themselves scared

shitless and hiding in fear!!!!

1 of them paid for a full page ad in my very rural weekly paper ...

"A VOTE FOR KERRY WILL PUT A SMILE ON THIS MANS FACE"

with a picture of Osama bin Laden
" VOTE FOR BUSH!"

paid for by a Republican for Bush, Tom Wilson"

The Windam Journal
Oct. 27, 2004
Windam, NY

[Wols]

81. Homosexuals who support Bush

It boggles the mind.

[Behind the Aegis]

85. They will be...

...the first carted off to the nice "work camps" the Rethugs will set up for us!

[iamjoy]

122. Now They Deserve The Worst

of what this administration can unleash on them.

They deserve to lose their job (because they are gay) and then they can't get health insurance 'cos their mate's company doesn't offer benefits to Domestic Partners!

Don't mean to sound vindictive - there are two other ways to look at this:

1) Gay people who voted for Bush obviously feel there are more important issues to them & the fact that Bush doesn't consider them a citizen doesn't really matter to them.

2) Some people really need to hit rock bottom to see the light. Right now Bush and the bigoted policies he wishes to promote are apocryphal to them. Maybe if they become more real we'll start seeing some real change.

Tough Love!

[VegasWolf]

82. bush, reed, bauer; Want to know what goes on in YOUR bedroom!

[atomic kitty]

95. Nonsense

They are only concerned about Gay marriage. Last I heard, marriages do not take place in bedrooms.

[Bonhomme Richard]

86. I think the Gay community made a Huge mistake allowing...........

the debate to be framed around the word marriage. Yes in the end that is exactly what you want but to actually go along with using the word is like swinging a stick at a hornets nest. That is a hot button word to many conservatives and even some who don't consider themselves conservative. It only gave the bigots the ammunition they needed.

The debate needs to be forcefully driven and framed as contractual unions. At this stage it needs to be addressed as a legal issue. That will take away the sting and frankly legal issues are totally boring to most people. That's what needs to happen.
For God's sake even bush understands that when he said he didn't have a problem with civil unions(of course we know he does and was only pandering) and it should be left up to the states.
There is a reason he believed he could say that and get away with it and his constituents.

[Divine Discontent]

87. we need a nat'l gay leader to lead

and get the gays grouped together to do a lock out of gay talent/skills in the country for one week in 2005, to show what people lose when gay people aren't around......

kick!

[Barkley]

114. I understand you completely but ...

Its unfair to scapegoat gays because of religious bigotry and political ignorance.

You are right about the framing of the issue, but I doubt that gays have that much power to solitarily frame issues in America, especially ones related to marriage rights.

I'm not accepting the connection between:
anti-gay marriage + religious fundamentalism = voting for Bush

Plug in Blacks (who in general are more homophobic and more religious than whites) into the equation and it turns out the 88% voted for Kerry!

Why?

Because Blacks, (who by the way watch more TV than whites) were able to discern that voting for Kerry was in their best interests; the religious fundamentalist whites cannot make that discernment.

This then is the real issue/ problem not gay marriage.

Bush and Rove were clever enough to take advantage of the stupidity and gullibility of ignorant white people.

Gays have tremendous economic resources available to combat the right wing. Unfortunately, too many of these excellent resources are being squandered.

The Christopher Street West parade and its all about consumerism -- which is fine but there had no policital message that organized people into taking effective action.

It wasn't always that way!

Thats got to change.

[Laughing Mirror]

115. Well that must be 56% of the white people who are ignorant

because that's how many voted for Bush. Among gays, 77% voted Kerry. That 88% for Kerry number among blacks is somewhat disingenuous. Take into account the million black votes already erased before voting began. Add on to that the huge number of provisional ballots given primarily to African-Americans when they are given at all. Virtually all of provisional ballots (155,000 in Ohio) are tossed. Trickery with black boxes and other forms of disenfranchisement are rife in certain states.

When you take all of this into consideration, the true percentage of blacks actually voting Kerry was probably more in line with the presumably undoctored results in my brother's mostly black (and poor) voting precinct of Washington, DC. 96.1% voted for Kerry. 96.1%. Precinct after precinct, the vote for Bush was in the 2 percent range. In some precincts the Bush vote was as low as an astounding 1.66%, only 12 votes! Tell me again about that 88% for Bush vote.

Black church people looked around their gay-saturated congregations and clearly did not fall for the hypocrisy and homophobia of the Bush administration. We have the figures that bear this out.

[Amigust]

137. In a game of define or be defined, it's the guy with the biggest

bullhorn that does the defining. The Democratic Party was notoriously unable all the way through to do the defining. That takes a lot more coordination and bullhorn, something like what the repukes have. If we don't develop a disciplined, coordinated party that is a single efficient fighting unit, the repukes will keep the prize.

[fortyfeetunder]

94. We have to stand up against this bigotry

See the writing on the wall, If we as a nation don't tell the Religious Zealots to fuck off and leave gays alone, and grant them simple legal civil unions, then they will squash the gays and come back for someone else.

Gays are first. If the religious right is successful in squashing gay rights, who in the hell will be next? How about miscegenation being legalized again? Hmmm?

[weezielove]

96. I don't believe in the religious right wing's homophobic god...

but I sure wish for our sakes that he'd send his son back to earth to take them all away so we can live in peace and harmony on this beautiful planet.

[VegasWolf]

98. Yes, wouldn't it be wonderful if there really were a RAPTURE and

these "christians" disappeared. Life would be wonderful.
No more Falwell, crouch, bush, or tammy baker!

[weezielove]

102. If I were their god I'd be so embarrassed and ashamed...

I just can't even fathom what ever, who ever created us wanting us to judge and threaten other human beings this way. It seems beyond evil.

[Chicago Democrat]

106. that god exist only in their minds...The real One doesnt care how

you love.

[Amigust]

132. If there really were a rapture, these "Christians" would be

so surprised to see other folks disappearing while they themselves were not.

[Chicago Democrat]

107. We are the Jews and this is our Nazi America

I am not going to the camps without a fight..

[devilgrrl]

109. I grieve for the gay community - except for th 25% that voted GOP...

they can kiss my loser-girl ass.

[Emillereid]

110. There's so much talk from the religious right about the sin of

homosexuality and that the bible mandates killing them. I think any gay who stays in Amerikkka is foolish -- for it may indeed be their very lives at stake. People who think rationality will triumph and that human beings won't go down that dark road are naive - humans have as much capacity for hatred and madness as they did in previous times. Amerikkka has gone completely crazy!!! And homosexuals are the new scapegoat in the new fascist state.

[VegasWolf]

113. I completely agree, I have many gay friends and I think any

gay that voted for bush has a death wish.

[queerart]

123. Gay community fears new era?

Nah...... Nothing New... It's been the same as long as I can remember!

Folks just think Queers have it good because "Will & Grace" is on TV!

[Jack Schitt]

128. It's starting within our own party as well.

Sadly. :(

[LightTheMatch]

130. Learn how to defend yourself.

To be perfectly honest, I think that the GLBT community should take a strong interested in learning firearms and carrying concealed weapons in the states where it is allowed. You may need them, and when the first couple of redneck 70 IQ mofo's that try to mess with you get their heads splattered against some wall, the next ones will think twice.

[Borgnine]

135. Get ready for a battle within the next one-to-two years.

I hope all geniune DUers (not the slime who have posted homophobic rants since Tuesday) that are straight are going to be willing to stand up for our GLBT friends in the riots to come. I, for one, won't let any of these bastards lay a hand on them.

[Briar]

141. What they should also fear

is being betrayed by the Democratic party as they scramble for the "moral values" votes of the homophobes.

[Behind the Aegis]

142. new era?

Honestly, the biggest thing that scares me is the number of DU'ers and democrats that are willing to sell the gays 'down the river!' I have watched this site in disbelief at the number of people who have attacked gays and blamed us for the loss!

to our allies: thank you! we need you! we love you!

to the detractors: FUCK YOU! You can claim to be a liberal but there is a white hood out there waiting for you!