Historic vote count is over (Florida)

[Judi Lynn]

Posted on Sat, Nov. 06, 2004




ELECTION 2004 | PROVISIONAL BALLOTS


Historic vote count is over

Broward elections officials accepted more than 2,428 provisional ballots in the presidential election, the first time they were widely used in the state.

BY ERIKA BOLSTAD
[e-mail]


Broward County won't send a final, certified vote to the state until next Friday, when military and overseas absentee ballots are tallied, but the rest of the counting is finally done.The canvassing board wrapped up its count of more than 2,428 provisional ballots late Thursday night after examining several hundred to determine whether they were valid votes.

This is the first time the paper provisional ballots have been used in a presidential election. The ballots, which were mandated as part of the Help America Vote Act, are the last resort for people whose names don't show up on the voter rolls.

When provisional ballots arrive from the precincts on Election Day, workers check their computer system to verify that the voter is registered and to check whether he or she has already voted. Voters also must be in the proper precinct for a provisional ballot to be counted.

If the voter should have been allowed to vote, the provisional ballot counts. If not, it is thrown out.The office did not track the total number of provisional ballots received or the total number that were rejected, said Gisela Salas, Broward Deputy Supervisor of Elections.They will know the total count of rejected ballots when they send letters to all those who cast them, Salas said.

''I think we threw out a ton,'' said Broward County Mayor Ilene Lieberman, who served on the three-member canvassing board.
(snip/...)

http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/news/10112736.htm
(Free registration is required)

[Hog lover]

1. They threw them out if not counted?!!!!!!!!

I thought a provisional voter had the right to find out if the vote was counted. Plus, how can anyone challenge the results if the ballots are just tossed?

Tell me this is not true!

[Drifter]

14. This happned to me ...

in 1992. I physically carried my voter registration card to the polls (along with the letter which named my polling place). I was not on the voter rolls. They gave me a provisional ballot. About 3 weeks after the election, I received a letter indicating my vote was invalid and therefore NOT counted.

I was very puzzled about this, but really didn't let me it bother me (since Clinton kicked ass).

Cheers
Drifter

[BayStateBoy]

24. My Reply: This Election is Beginning to Stink Big Time...

The mainstream news media have been spoon fed a new word by Bush/Rove. That word is "evangelical," and they are babbling it to the exclusion of some very real issues impacting Democracy and the Bush Presidency.

The second Bush/Rove pabulum is the mythical Bush "mandate," also being belched along with the evangelical pill. Meanwhile, no one seems to entertain the possibility that the Bush "mandate" may mostly be an Electoral WMD.

The first message from Election 2004 is that BBV or any voting method not leaving a permanent paper trail that can be audited is undemocratic and un-American. They must be banished from the American landscape forever.

The second message is the history of American voting is both a history of recounts and a history of rigged elections. If there were widespread fraud it occurred in the Bush Family Fiefdom of Florida, which despite the "hurricane votes" Kerry should have won or at least come within a razor thin margin. That Jeb Bush has been "busy" assuring no chad recounts is not the product of conspiracy theorizing, it is just plain common sense.

The third message is that exit polls are always within 2% of voting tallies and no amount of media spin makes election 2004 an exception. Kerry had a 97.7% probability of winning Ohio and a 93.5% probability of winning Florida. Also when was the last time an incumbent President with an approval rating of less than 50% won reelection?

Those who persist in denying the validity of the exit polls need to explain the following: (1) Exit polling statistically correlated with voting tallies in every state except those using BBV or electronic machine combinations. (2) In every case of discrepancy, G.W. Bush was the recipient of extra votes (5%-7%) and NEVER John Kerry. Why?

The fourth message is that no amount of White House or media spin can stop the miasma of stench that is beginning to pervade results in Ohio and Florida. This will linger and foul the second term. Overturning the election is not the issue. Truth is the issue which is something that most journalists and media seem to have abandoned years ago.

And lastly, we have a president already regarded as illegitimate by 1/2 the people who is reelected in an election increasingly tainted with allegations of fraud. To those people he will forever remain illegitimate. Bush may rule 1/2 the country but he can never govern.

[noiretextatique]

2. wtf...why wouldn't they keep a count?

of the total provisional ballots and the total thrown out?!?! perhaps it is the accountant in me, but that just isn't a sound practice.

[goclark]

5. I worked the polls in California

The number one rule was that we could not throw ANYTHING away!
We had to keep any ballot that was smeared and write VOID on it in front of two other poll workers. Then it was placed in a box.
All the voids and everything else, extra ballots,envelopes, pencils everything had to be counted and recorded.

If we had to count the pencils at the polling place, they sure should not be allowed to throw away a ballot!!!!!

[noiretextatique]

9. now THAT makes sense

i don't have much auditing experience, but this practice in florida is just insane. for an election official to say "oh...we don't know how many there were, and we don't know how many were thrown away"...
that's just ridiculous.

[The Backlash Cometh]

15. Since the Republicans took control of Florida,

there has been a big push to change legislation in order to keep public records out of the hands of the public. They keep making exceptions to our Public Records Laws, they shorten the statute of limitations for legal responsibility and they have a very liberal view when it comes to destroying records.

[barb162]

18. sick bastards running that state and sick bastards who vote

for them, damn repukes

[cubsfan forever]

22. Unfortunately true n/t

Professor 2

[Bluebear]

3. "I think we through out a ton"

A real precision operation I see.

[Carolab]

4. WHAT IN THE HELL

They THREW THEM OUT? How can anyone check them out then? Or count them? This is totally screwed up!

[alittlelark]

6. The 'Kerry pulling a rabbit out of his hat' odds

just shrunk.

[LisaL]

7. Oh boy.

Is that how we count votes now?
Trowing them out by a ton?
:nuke:

[lakeguy]

8. fuck that BS

"we threw out a ton." what the hell is that? how much more of this will we put up with before something is done?

[ticapnews]

10. It may be a figure of speech...

meaning they discounted those ballots, not that they were *literally* thrown away. But it would be nice to see some clarification.

[progressivebydesign]

19. NO. they were "THROWN OUT". as in NOT COUNTED.

What part of not counted don't you get from that article? I don't care if they were used as stuffing in LaPore's pillows, or tossed in a can, it's the SAME thing.. NOT COUNTED. "I think we threw out a ton," that says it all.

[ticapnews]

23. What part of "discounted" do you not understand?

I recognize they were not counted. The argument seemed to be that the votes were literally thrown into a garbage can. That is why one person wrote about having to save all materials, even "bad" ballots. My statement was that the poll worker may have been using "threw out a ton" as a figure of speech. When a baseball player is "thrown out" of a game, the umpire does not physically lift the player and toss him. It is a figure of speech. That MAY have been what was happening here. The ballots may still be in voting place, just not counted.

I think you misunderstood. And you really need to try some decaf or something.

[txindy]

11. Great. Typical Jeb-run Florida govt.

Look, I think our best bet is Ohio, anyway. First, NH in order to set the pattern of 'miscounts' on optical scanning machines, then Ohio. Jeb has had years of practice with this in Florida, but Ohio is, presumably, new to the art of vote-revising. Ohio may be easier to crack than Florida. But, then, I'm just speculating. Maybe they've over-reached too far in Florida. Their county data is laughable.

This is getting more and more fascinating. Sickening, but also riveting.

[teryang]

13. "Their county data is laughable"

Can you please elaborate. I was looking at the county data last night and have some concerns but don't know if they're valid.

[txindy]

17. Here are some places to start

The numbers have also been crunched and plotted by others who can describe it far better than I am able to, so I'll point you to their work. I don't have easily transmittable files (lots of rough work on paper, too), but their's are already posted and they are very similar.

Pay particular attention to those counties with optical scanning machines. They tabulate all the votes for every machine on only one PC -- one, easily-hacked PC.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=201x1709

http://www.geocities.com/flfraud04/flVoting.xls

http://ustogether.org/Florida_Election.htm

http://orion.lunarpages.com/~pacifi3/FLA_VOTE.xls

[teryang]

25. Thanks very much for responding

I don't know of anywhere else where people can get informed so well, so quickly.


This one is on DU's front page now:

http://www.zeppscommentaries.com/VRWC/gun.htm

<The ballot box stuffing was widespread, and focused on small counties where, it was assumed, the figures wouldn’t be examined very closely.>

[mzmolly]

12. "threw out" Don't they have to atleast keep them for documentation?

:(

[iwillalwayswonderwhy]

16. Translation

"Broward elections officials accepted more than 2,428 provisional ballots in the presidential election, the first time they were widely used in the state." BUSH VOTES

''I think we threw out a ton,'' said Broward County Mayor Ilene Lieberman, who served on the three-member canvassing board." KERRY VOTES

[Zorra]

20. Boycott Florida. Don't vacation there, etc.

[The Animator]

21. Here's the rest of the article... pick up after the "we threw out a ton"

Several hundred were tossed because voters cast two ballots. Many were from people who mailed an absentee ballot and showed up at the polls to vote, too, because they didn't believe their absentee ballot had arrived in time.

But others were more worrisome, Lieberman said. The board also found a small handful of people who voted at an early-voting location, then went to the polls on Election Day.

Most of the rejected ballots were from people who were not actually registered to vote or people who voted in the wrong precinct.

In many cases, clerks at the polling places gave provisional ballots to people who could have voted regularly, Salas said. She thinks many clerks had trouble with last names of voters with compound names -- they simply couldn't find their names in the precinct registers, even though they were there.

Poll workers are supposed to call the election headquarters to check on a voter's status, but Salas said she thinks that many simply chose to offer a provisional ballot instead.





In the end, I think it might be best not to let people vote twice, how about cutting Florida a little slack, were not all repubs ya know... Oh and Orange county went for Kerry, I was there.