Powell asks France, Germany for specifics on Iraq

[NNN0LHI]

Here Mr. Powell. You and your government are all war criminals. Get yourself ready for the Nuremberg Trials version 2.0. Is that specific enough for you?

http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/N05170941.htm

WASHINGTON, Sept 5 (Reuters) - U.S. Secretary of State Colin Powell said on Friday he wanted France and Germany to make specific proposals on the future of Iraq, not just cast editorial judgments on his draft U.N. resolution.

"If you didn't like it in this particular form and you want to see something different, then make a proposal in addition to an editorial comment," Powell told reporters.

He was indirectly addressing French President Jacques Chirac and German Chancellor Gerhard Schroeder, who said on Thursday that the U.S. draft did not go far enough.

The United States floated the draft this week in an attempt to muster troops and cash from governments which have so far kept their distance from the U.S. occupation of Iraq.

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[ProudGerman]

1. I'm gonna take this rare, one time moment and speak for all Germans

Go fuck yourself, Powell.

We tried to be good allies, and offer you good advice. You ignored it, and then questioned our status as allies for doing so.

[The Zanti Regent]

9. France to Stepin Fetchitt

Manger Merde, Stepin!

[BonjourUSA]

15. It should be a real jubilation BUTÉ

we have to help Bush, because it wouldn't be good for the western democracies that the USA are humilitied. Bush is only a mistake of the American history.

In this shit, we are condemned to succeed together. I think we allow Bush to save face and let's hope that this asshole will make that possible.

[Kellanved]

16. Thanks for posting this

My thoughts exactly.

[Eloriel]

27. Mais non!

If Europe, or any of the rest of the world, bails Bush&Co. out of its massive troop deployments in Iraq and elsewhere, you only free up troops to be sent on yet other adventures (or misadventures). Surely you don't want to see us go into Iran and/or Syria, do you? Or who knows what other countries they've got on their evil minds.

I hate that our young men and women are suffering and at risk -- I hate it desperately. But I would hate even more if we used them elsewhere for equally bad reasons.

Eloriel

[aquart]

18. Would that be Mange Merde?

Mange merde et mort? (French speakers please correct. Wouldn't want Powell to get the wrong message.)

[femmecahors]

21. I think it's Mangez Merde . . . n/t

....

[BonjourUSA]

32. Better expression : "Va te faire foutre et cr�ve !"

Translation : "fuck you and croak"

[MoonAndSun]

2. In other words, "please, pretty please, help us!!!"

"we really are stupid so tell us how high, how far and how long we should jump? We will do anything you ask of us, just help us out of this hellhole we put ourselves into."

grovel, Colin, grovel.

[David Zephyr]

3. Man, Oh Man! Are the Bushies in a Box or What?

Le Figaro: "Bush's strategy is insolent. He is calling for help, then trying to dictate the terms of the rescue."

Le Figaro: "Why should it spill the blood of its soldiers and jeopardise the credibility of its diplomacy just to assure the re-election of George W Bush?"

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/3084060.stm

[femmecahors]

22. And isn't Le Figaro the conservative newspaper? n/t

. . .

[bemildred]

4. Belligerent as always.

France says to Germany: "I guess we have some time to kill,
say, you want another brew?"

[wtmusic]

5. On your knees bee-yotch

The chocolate makers are calling the shots now

[Rollins]

6. Powell and Bush would like the EU to show their holecard.

This is multi-level negotiations at its best! To the TV viewer it appears as if Powell is searching for a common ground like any good deal maker would but my bet is the major negotiating is going on behind the scenes right now. THe ambassadors of the countries on the security council are supposed to be going home to thier capital this weekend according to CNN and will return Monday with guidance from their leaders.

I bet Russia, Germany and France cave. Bet the dollars and other incentives Powell and the minions are offering is just too much for these countries to resist. Remember leaders stick together.

Hope I am wrong. Luckily I won't have to wait long to find out!

[NNN0LHI]

8. Hope they take IOU's? Because we ain't got no money left n/t

[Robin Hood]

25. My thoughts exactly.

What incentives? Wer'e broke.

[gratuitous]

12. Perhaps

But the Germans and the French appear to be a lot more impervious to the yammerings of the right wing loonies in this country than, say, some Democrats I could name. Powell can go piss up a rope.

On a side note, I find it rather hilarious that this administration is seeking "specifics" rather than just being told "no." This administration launched the whole invasion on generalities and scare tactics, whipping up war fever with rhetoric that was long on bellicosity and short on those coveted specifics.

Powell can go piss up a rope of sand.

[Rollins]

13. Thankful to Bush and Powell

For making the news interesting again! Over these last 2 years I got more than a little burned out watching the US press tell us how much we loved George Bush. Now I get up looking forward to seeing how the Bush admin screwed themselves. Then I remember it is us tax payers and the soldiers who are suffering for the Bush mistakes.

[Paschall]

26. IMO, Powell wants a counter proposition...

...signed by France, Germany, or Russia, so the US can pull its draft resolution off the table and put the burden of passage on the anti-war camp. The US can always threaten to veto any "rescue plan" that would damage ShrubCo's image at home or reduce its power in Iraq.

Another significant problem is that the French and German deficits next year are expected to exceed the Euro stability pact. They don't have the money for sending in large forces, either--and certainly not enough to undertake major reconstruction efforts on spec.

Chirac and Schroeder, meanwhile, are both weakened by public opposition to the cuts they are making in public services. I doubt they will want to endanger the what goodwill they have at home by reversing engines on the Iraq invasion now. I also believe there's a lot of public concern in Germany and France about Afghanistan, where they're already spending quite a bit of treasure today for damn little solid progress toward improving the lives of Afghanis.

[Beetwasher]

14. About those dollars the US is supposedly going to bribe the UN

with. And where will they get them? They're going to promise them a piece of the Iraq pie? Too bad that's probably NOT a good business decision. That would mean pacifying the country and getting it productive. Not even close to being a given anytime soon. I wouldn't make that deal if I were France, Germany or China. Send my soldiers to die to legitimize the invasion on a promise from Bush that they'll share in the spoils at some indeterminate point in time? Yeah, right. Would you trust Bush to keep his word? I wouldn't and I don't think France, Germany or China will either. If they do, they're more stupid than I thought...

[femmecahors]

23. Well the man on the street here . . .

At dinner last night, here in the countryside of France, the attendees were very thrilled about the delicious diplomatic turn of events. When I arrived in May, people didn't want to say anything negative against the U.S. . . . they would just nod their heads in polite agreement when I would say "George Bush est fou." (I would say this to everyone upon seeing them for the first time to let them know that I did not support what was going on with Iraq, or with the U.S. government.)

But now, the worm seems to have turned, and they are just giddy about being able to say, "I told you so." And I'm so happy for them, because I know that they were devastated by all the hatred thrown their way from America in the spring. The "Old Europe" label really stung . . . they think "The Chocolate Makers" is downright cute.

[Journeyman]

7. They ALREADY GAVE specifics. . .

STAY OUT OF IRAQ!

How much more simple-minded do they need to make it for BushCo to understand?

I swear, this entire administration seems at times to be Poster Children for the importance of oxygen in the womb.

[femmecahors]

24. A very successful trial attorney told me . . .

That to be successful when you're lying, you must believe your lie to be true.

The Administration creates it's own reality, because they have the power and the money, they can live in a fantasy world of their own making. Eventually it crashes down (as did Hitler, et al) but in the meantime, the masses suffer because of their lies.

I am convinced that they really do believe all the merde they shovel out daily.

[Skittles]

10. THE SHEER F***ING ARROGANCE OF BUSH INC

IT'S AS IF THEY REALLY BELIEVE THEIR OWN PROPAGANDA.

[MGKrebs]

11. Lukovich

[BelgianMadCow]

17. that's an awesome cartoon

sums it up nicely. This chocolatemaker sure would like to strike a deal with the US, but not with this strange looking dimwit or any of his minions. Bush*






* note : in the 2000 election, pResident Bush wasn't elected, he was selected

[aquart]

19. That says it correctly.

Were all of Bushco born without the gene for irony?

[htuttle]

20. I wonder what the Bush Administration expects?

Assuming that they actually think they can get UN assistance (which may be arguable at the moment), what sort of help do they think they could possibly get?

I finally found some statistics I was looking for. I'd had a hunch that Bush was going to be asking for an unprecedented number of UN troops, to be able to pull out as many US troops as possible (politics...politics...).

However, I don't think that's at all realistic, even in the best case for the Bushes.

The statistics I was looking for were how many UN allied troops were deployed during the Korean War (probably the largest UN peacekeeping mission to date, unless I'm missing something.

Here's how many UN allied troops were from countries other than the US, UK and ROK during Korea:

Australia 2,282
Belgium 900
Canada 6,146
Colombia 1,068
Ethopia 1,271
France 1,119
Greece 1,263
Holland 819
Luxembourg 44
New Zealand 1,385
Philippines 1,496
South Africa 826
Thailand 1,204
Turkey 5,453
Total 25,276
from http://www.skalman.nu/koreanwar/un-forces.htm

Notes: The US contribution was about 300,000, UK about 14,000, and ROK had about 590,000 involved.

How many troops do they need to ADD to Iraq according to all the non-Bushite generals? I've heard numbers like 50,000 to 100,000. That's additional troops -- not for rotation.

Will a peacekeeping mission in Iraq be more appealing to the international community than the one in Korea was?

My point is that there simply aren't enough UN troops to 'bail us out' (unless what...China sends a hundred thousand? Under US command? Right...). A different tack must be taken toward reconstructing Iraq that relies more on factions in Iraq.

Bush may not have wanted an independent Kurdistan, but he's going to have one as a matter of sheer practicality. Bush may not have wanted an Islamic Republic of Iraq, but he's going to end up with one, since he's devastated the secular factions in Iraq (the Ba'ath party).

There is, quite simply, nothing the international community can do to fix this in a way that would be acceptable to those who wanted the war in the first place. Iraq needs to find it's own way (with UN assistance....not administration) from here on.

[Paschall]

28. I think the number of troops is less important...

...than UN funding. Until Shrub gets the UN's signature on a military mission, the US and UK are footing the entire bill. We're even paying for the Polish, Hungarian and other foreign troops in Iraq. We're blowing the bottom out of the treasury. ShrubCo needs to skim a little off the top of "old Europe's" coffers, and the coffers of all UN member nations.

But I don't think this will fly without some heavy concessions from Washington.

Unlike Shrub, Chirac and Shroeder have avoided personal attacks. I think they realize they're going to have to nurse the grumpy puppy gently back into a semblance of civilized. I agree with BonjourUSA, I think they'll help him save face if he bends.

Afterthought: That's a very European reaction: There's no reason for Chirac and Shroeder to ridicule Shrub, he's ridiculed himself quite thoroughly before the eyes of the entire world. It's so obvious that even mentioning it would be like hitting him below the belt.

[htuttle]

29. That is probably true (that the funding is most important)

But there are a lot of people under the impression that if the UN gets into the peacekeeping mission in Iraq, that significant numbers of US troops will be freed up to come home.

What I'm seeing is that this can't and won't happen. Even if the UN provides as much military help in the form of troops as they did during Korea, the US would probably still need to send even more forces over there -- not send more home. And with an election coming up, the question of a draft, further mobilization of the Guard, etc.. become more important 'politically' (although in a steady, long term, non-political sense, it may still be the funding that's more important).

While many countries opposed the war on a matter of principle (or were lead to oppose it by the reaction of their citizens), I think another factor was that once the chaos in Iraq was unleashed, NOBODY was really sure how it would be put back together again, international assistance or not. UN help is no miracle cure -- it's still a lot of work, could go on for years, and requires a share of luck. A case in point would be Afghanistan, the previous place Bush created a mess...

[StandWatie]

30. in other words..

Name your terms, I surrender.

[pfitz59]

31. Cancel exclusive, "no-bid" contracts........

1) Scratch Halliburton
2) Scratch Bechtel
3) Scratch Worldcom
4) Scratch Dyncorp
etc, etc.....

[RedEarth]

33. To be specific, we want congress to impeach b...... nt

[lebkuchen]

34. Curious. What is ALWAYS lacking from Bush's plans are "specifics"

Lots of plans, but no detail. It's his trademark.

And now he expects other countries to cough up? Arrogant bastard.