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spotbird Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-16-04 01:28 PM
Original message
Some ballots counted twice
Edited on Tue Nov-16-04 01:35 PM by spotbird
Sandusky County elections officials discovered some ballots in the Nov. 2 election were counted twice.

*skip*

The finding further emphasizes the fact that the 49-vote lead Republican challenger Irma Celestino has over Democratic incumbent Anna Senior isn't the final word. That race will be decided when provisional, military or remade ballots are counted and the official count is taken Thursday. It is not known how much of an impact it might have had on any other unofficial count.

Barb Tuckerman, director of the Sandusky County Board of Elections, said when she reviewed election information Nov. 8 she discovered the mistake.

"Clyde had 131 percent voting," Tuckerman said. "That's not possible. I knew there was something amiss."


*more*

http://www.thenews-messenger.com/news/stories/20041116/localnews/1601347.html

Oh well, these things happen.
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Virginian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-16-04 01:36 PM
Response to Original message
1. Ohio, right?
Who did the original counting? Was it an "honest" mistake, or did they just think they wouldn't get caught?
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RawMaterials Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-16-04 01:50 PM
Response to Reply #1
4. ya its Ohio the article
talks about bowling green university witch is in Ohio
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NewYorkerfromMass Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-16-04 02:19 PM
Response to Reply #1
8. GOP votes right? eom
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CAcyclist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-16-04 01:36 PM
Response to Original message
2. Purged Just Because They Didn't Vote For Several Years?
"Of the 713 provisional ballots cast, Tuckerman said 626 will be counted. Many of the 87 whose votes were disqualified had their registrations purged for not voting for several years, Tuckerman said. "<snip>

Did they notify the person whose registration was purged to let them know they had to reregister? This doesn't seem fair to me.

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Demit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-16-04 01:43 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. In PA that's the case. Don't vote for 2 years, you're gone.
Or supposed to be. No, they don't have to let you know. IMO, citizens do have some responsibility--or their party grassroots leaders should be looking after that kind of thing anyway. That's part of their job.
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carolinalady Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-16-04 02:04 PM
Response to Reply #3
5. I lived in PA for 37 years and only voted every 4 years.
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WCGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-16-04 02:38 PM
Response to Reply #5
10. If you don't vote in two consecutive Presidential elections
with of course no votes in between, you are taken off the rolls.....

AS to the study, if you can't read the submitted form, how are you going to contact the person? Believe me, many registration cards are filled out incorrectly, illegibly or falsely. Now this isn't to say there isn't a problem, but over the years, I have registered probably 2-3 thousand people, I was a registar before that quaint little practice went out of business. And If I didn't take the time to go over the card with the person, just handed it them while I was at a fair or something, chance are good that I wouldn't be able to read the card.

It all depends on where and how that cards are filled out. If if the person assisting the process is interested in getting people to vote or amassing cards to get paid...

Just a little caveat to think about when looking at all of this....
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papau Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-16-04 03:20 PM
Response to Reply #2
12. a large number of good reasons to not count vote - or count it twice! :-)
SO WE HAVE TO BE COUNTED: ballots that were torn, damaged, had stray marks or where voters did not follow instructions, including cases where ovals were not only colored in but also circled plus military ballots and provisional ballots that were disqualified because their registrations were purged for not voting for several years, or because records indicated they were registered in other states or there was no record of them ever having registered.

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Kahuna Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-16-04 02:08 PM
Response to Original message
6. That's obvious. If the amount of votes exceed the number of..
voters, either some voters voted twice, or some ballots were counted twice.
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fob Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-16-04 02:48 PM
Response to Reply #6
11. Yeah, can't get nothing by ole Barb Tuckerman, so don't even TRY!!
More than twice, anyway. :evilgrin:
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Zan_of_Texas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-16-04 02:17 PM
Response to Original message
7. Ohio study of registration shows errors: 1 in 20
That part about people being booted off the rolls after only a two-year hiatus from voting is disturbing. Lots of people just want to vote for president. In addition, as this study makes clear, the trials of getting properly registered and re-registered disproportionately affect youth, African-Americans, etc, who move more often than high-income whites.

Just flawed registrar rolls could result in tens of thousands of votes disenfranchised in Ohio, according to this study.


DESCRIPTION OF THE CLEVELAND STUDY ON REGISTRATION ERRORS

http://www.caseohio.org/CaseOhio/Registration_Problems_Study.htm

(my note- apparently the study was completed after the registration deadline of October 4, 2004, but before the November 2 election)

A new study projects that 10,000 votes may be compromised in Cuyahoga County and some 35,000 votes statewide because of clerical and voter errors, unless we take immediate action.

Earlier this year, volunteers for the Greater Cleveland Voter Registration Coalition began hearing from some citizens that they had never received confirmation of registration from the Cuyahoga County Board of Elections. Fortunately, the Coalition had copied every single registration form before they handed them in to the Board of Elections. Two preliminary follow-up studies on 275 registrations confirmed that there was indeed a problem. The next step was to compare nearly 2500 submitted registrations to those listed as “active” voters on the Board of Election rolls. The initial result was that about 13% were not found on the rolls, 6 weeks or more after submission. The Board next kindly gave us access to the detailed records on these registrations, which revealed that about half of the 13% had been legitimately deleted because of death, voter moving out of county, imprisonment for felony after registration, lack of citizenship, duplication, etc. Other supposedly missing registrations arrived later on the rolls after the Board caught up with its backlog, even though they had been submitted months before.

We next traced the fate of the remaining problem submissions and found that that over 5% of the nearly 2500 registrations were not on the rolls at all, incorrectly entered, not updated for address change, or suffered from voter errors (See detail below.). In most of these cases, the voter would have no way of knowing they were not registered or were registered with errors until election day, unless they happened to check with the Board of Elections. Also, after subtraction for duplicate registration forms and registrations legitimately cancelled, the final number analyzed was closer to 2200 (see below).

By knowing that at least 5% of voters might have their votes compromised, and that the Cuyahoga County Board of Elections had received about 200,000 applications, we computed that about 10,000 votes in Cuyahoga County would be compromised. To determine the statewide numbers of received registrations, in early September, we called larger county Boards of Election to ask for their numbers of new 2004 registrations/change-of-addresses, until we had numbers from Boards that collectively handle 48% of Ohio's 2002 registered voters. From those total numbers, we projected that about 760,000 new cards had been submitted statewide since January 1, 2004. Since some of these would be later legitimately disqualified (deceased, moved out of county, imprisoned, duplications, etc), we estimated that 5% of 700,000 or 35,000 votes statewide would be compromised if the results found in Cuyahoga County apply to registrations statewide.

Details of Study: (see link)
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VolcanoJen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-16-04 02:25 PM
Response to Original message
9. Kick
:dem:
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damntexdem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-16-04 03:30 PM
Response to Original message
13. Yeah, these things happen.
Ever since 2000.
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