November already is second deadliest month for U.S. troops in Iraq

[UpInArms]

http://www.boston.com/dailynews/321/wash/November_already_is_second_dea:.shtml

WASHINGTON (AP) U.S. deaths in Iraq this month are approaching 100, making it the second-deadliest month since American forces invaded the country in March 2003, Pentagon records show.

The worst month was last April, with 135 deaths, when the insurgency intensified and U.S. Marines fought fierce battles in Fallujah, only to be withdrawn from the city. That was part of a failed attempt to put the now-defunct Fallujah Brigade of U.S. and allied Iraqi forces in charge.

Until now the second-deadliest month was November 2003 with 82 deaths, and 80 Americans died in May and September this year.

The rising death toll coincides with U.S. military commanders' efforts to pacify areas of Iraq that need to be brought under Iraqi government control before elections scheduled for late January. It also reflects an escalation of attacks by the insurgents, although some U.S. commanders say they believe this may be a last-gasp effort by rebel forces outmatched by U.S. firepower.

It is difficult to gauge the effect of the growing death toll on U.S. troop morale. Commanders say their men and women are holding up well, although they caution that more hard fighting lies ahead.

...more...

and not a good one for the Iraqis either

http://electroniciraq.net/news/1716.shtml

800 Civilians Feared Dead in Fallujah

BAGHDAD, Nov 16 (IPS) - At least 800 civilians have been killed during the U.S. military siege of Fallujah, a Red Cross official estimates.

Speaking on condition of anonymity for fear of U.S. military reprisal, a high-ranking official with the Red Cross in Baghdad told IPS that "at least 800 civilians" have been killed in Fallujah so far.

His estimate is based on reports from Red Crescent aid workers stationed around the embattled city, from residents within the city and from refugees, he said.

"Several of our Red Cross workers have just returned from Fallujah since the Americans won't let them into the city," he said. "And they said the people they are tending to in the refugee camps set up in the desert outside the city are telling horrible stories of suffering and death inside Fallujah."

The official said that both Red Cross and Iraqi Red Crescent relief teams had asked the U.S. military in Fallujah to take in medical supplies to people trapped in the city, but their repeated requests had been turned down.

...more...

[andyhappy]

1. fallujah

here are some pics of fallujah -- some are rather graphic

http://www.syntheticniche.com/comics/notblog_flash2.html

[leftchick]

2. it's hard work....

just ask the asshat* in the WH... :(

[saigon68]

4. IT'S HARD WORK MURDERING WOMEN AND CHILDREN

THE FEW, THE PROUD, THE KILLERS

[Name removed]

5. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[leftchick]

6. saigon is a beloved member here....

I would dare to wager he has sacrificed more for the US Military than you. How many veterans have you taken care of today?

[Hey Zeus]

7. including my dad, who is dying from agent orange exposure?

is that the justification for calling military people child killers? thats what they called my dad when he came back from vietnam, right before they spit on him.

i will suggest volunteering at the local VA hospital to those that want an excuse to denegrate those in uniform.

[physioex]

13. What about those that...

Denegrate humanity...Why don't you spend time in Fallujah caring for the wounded?

[Hey Zeus]

22. there are those that do that...

and i salute them.

[Dhalgren]

14. US soldiers in Iraq are killing children!

Praise them all that you want, but someone, somewhere, has to say, "I won't do this!" "Oh, but they could be courts marshaled for that." So killing and maiming children and civilians is better than getting in trouble with the Army? That is the choice the soldiers make, and all of you who voted for Bush made.

[Hey Zeus]

21. innocents are killed, yes...

yet you seem to be disgusted by our military in general. it is very easy to sit here, at this time and dismiss them. and i did not vote for bush, but i disagree with your drivel, so i must have?

[leftchick]

15. I used to work at a VA hospital....

I am very aware of how our government abandons our veterans. Here is a thought, just like in everyday civilian life we come across "bad apples" and people who just like to kill. Guess what? That happens in the military as well.

[Hey Zeus]

17. i see very little of that distinction in posts that say...

the few the proud the blank killers. isn't that a blanket statement?

[Name removed]

23. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

34. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

39. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Hey Zeus]

41. please don't do it.

do you only refer to arabs as ragheads when you are mocking someone you think would use the term? when do you use the n-word? or chink?

[Javaman]

53. If I recall, in the military, you are taught to kill, period.

If they were supposed to be peace keepers, then call in the UN, oh I forgot, moron pissed them off too.

[Javaman]

49. That same agent orange that is killing your dad, killed thousands of

Vietnamese too, or had you forgotten about that?

[leftofthedial]

tell your dad thanks from me for his service

did someone really spit on him?

I know lots of Viet Nam vets and none of them were spat on. They weren't treated like WWII vets, but they weren't literally mistreated.

[Dhalgren]

8. When you get 800 civilians (at least) (and many children)

slaughtered for the greed and corruption of the rich in America, I think "Killers" is an apt term. I say this to anyone who wishes to listen - I don't give a fuck who is in the audience.


U.S. Army 1972-75

[Name removed]

11. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Forkboy]

19. I'm going to enjoy having you around

DU needs good straight men.

[Hey Zeus]

36. i am crooked in a few places...

and i feel like you are engaging in stereotyp... never mind.

[Forkboy]

63. Oh,I'm sure you are

[physioex]

9. Are you calling someone a flip-flopper? eom

[Hey Zeus]

12. never...

i don't understand the disgust and hatred for military people i see in abundance here. it is disheartening.

[physioex]

16. The people on this board care more for the military than...

You might think. We wanted the military home, not in some far away land thousands of miles away murdering women and children...... So don't point any fingers here.

[Hey Zeus]

28. have you read the posts in general re. the military here?

i have seen many who do. but the posts of some are beyond criticism. please remain consistent in your criticism.

[physioex]

35. What is our ideology....

We don't believe in a "war of choice" or spreading Pax Americana (Boys at PNAC). We believe in only defending this country when attacked something which Iraq was never involved. That is the true defenition of patriotism, and I am sure that 99.9% of the DU'ers would agree.

[Hey Zeus]

52. so where does the few the proud the blank killers come into this?

[physioex]

57. I am not here to talk sound bites.......

I will leave that to the Dittoheads. Just make sure you understand what it is we stand for, and as the conflict continues to drag so will more americans.

[Hey Zeus]

65. those are the words use to describe the marines in a nutshell...

child killers. and this was not dittoheads that used them.

i respect your views. disrespect and animosity toward large segments of the military will never be acceptable to the vast majority of americans. and i don't mean 51%

[physioex]

74. I've never chosen those words...

But words are just that (I've never seen one draw blood). Look at the over all picture though, what the right is doing is far more disrespectful..... eg Sending men and women into harms way unnecessarily.

[Hey Zeus]

77. i did not accuse you personally.

but that is the attitude of many. do you vehemently chastise them?

the reasons for those boys to be over there are outside their control.

[physioex]

81. I was listening to Randi...

And she said anyone in Iraq not giving orders is a Pawn. And I tend to agree with that assesment. As far as the troops go, I think a vast majority are good people put in bad situations. I agree blaming the troops may also be a failed strategy on our side, the atrocities that are commited do need to be reported. That with the increased number of casualties can be used to turn public opinion for this war. The american people chose to learn the hard way and will......

P.S. That's about as close to agreement we get...

[Name removed]

18. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Hey Zeus]

24. ha...

did you see the excitement of the poster? sarcasm is lost on some people.

[DrWeird]

26. Do you understand what an exclamation point means?

It doesn't automatically imply glee. At least to the functionally literate.

[Hey Zeus]

30. i was not the only one that made that assumption.

and you seem to insult many people that do not share your brand of elitism.

[Name removed]

32. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Hey Zeus]

38. i've read your posts for quite some time, doc...

and these insults are your m.o.

but peace to you, c-c.

[DrWeird]

43. Oh, so we've met before? Past life?

Care to mention the name of your former incarnation?

[Hey Zeus]

45. wow,

i just figured out that i could not just read the posts, but also rite stuff too. you are easy to find, doc. just follow the insults and put-downs.

[DrWeird]

48. Confess.

Or are you chicken? Bawk bawk bawk.

[Hey Zeus]

55. uh huh. we sure are doc.

[DrWeird]

60. bawk bawk

ba-gawk!

PM if you don't want anybody to know. I won't forward it. I swear on the Bible.

[Hey Zeus]

68. uh huh.

you rule the roost here, don't ya doc?

[Javaman]

59. learn to spell, then we might listen to you.

[Hey Zeus]

70. ahh.

spelling is the pre req now? elitists are so easy to get a few insults out of.

[Hey Zeus]

25. are you a chickenhawk then?

[DrWeird]

27. I'm not a chicken, and I'm not a hawk.

You, apparently, are both.

[Hey Zeus]

31. funny,

i feel the same way about you. then again, denegrating our troops on here is not in any way chicken, doc.

[DrWeird]

33. How am I a hawk?

Do you even understand what the word means? Furthermore, there's nothing I've said here I wouldn't say to anybody's face. But I bet there's plenty that you wouldn't say in an enlistment office.

[Hey Zeus]

37. been there doc...

sorry, i meant chicken-chicken.

[DrWeird]

40. Mmhmm.

I myself was a Marine and fought valiantly against the evil Chessmaster and his poorly animated fire-breathing dragon.

[Hey Zeus]

47. i'm sure you were, doc.

[DrWeird]

51. Feeling's mutual.

nt

[Hey Zeus]

56. so keep coming with the insults doctor.

[DrWeird]

66. Give me more material to work with.

So far all you've really done is say that it was OK to shoot an unarmed, wounded, elderly man in the face. And then you just argued like a functionally illiterate twelve-year-old over your hundred or so posts. So ante up.

[Javaman]

64. Ah once again, a chicken hawk that looks upon descent as being

cowardly. You dumbass, what do you think our founding fathers had in mind when we defended ourselves against the British? That is descent.

[Hey Zeus]

67. what are you talking about.

check the history of this thread. who started the ch thing?

[DrWeird]

71. Well, you started the argument by "denegrating" a veteran.

What's that say about you and your kind?

[Hey Zeus]

73. whats my kind?

please grace me with your analysis, oh stereotyper you.

forget the ch part, you screwed up there.

[maddezmom]

76. here's my take...one that doesn't belong here

amongst all the "elitist". :)

[DrWeird]

78. Chickenhawk troop-haters.

But that's pretty much redundant. You'd have to be a troop-hater to send them off to fight a war you're too cowardly to fight yourself.

[Forkboy]

82. Is this a trick question?

If we answered that one we'd get banned too!

[Dora]

50. That's "denigrating"

[Dhalgren]

29. The soldiers in the US Army and Marines

have slaughtered over 100,000 Iraqi civilians since they went to Iraq to kill people for their bosses. It wasn't some phantom group of "evil-doers" who slaughtered those people, it was "our" troops doing it (supposedly) in our name, but in reality they were killing for their rich employers. Don't expect laurel wreaths...

[Hey Zeus]

58. at least you are willing...

to trumpet your hatred of our military. for that i respect you.

[Dora]

46. I'm a new member too

and I don't see the "disgust and hatred" that you claim exists on these boards.

[Name removed]

61. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[DrWeird]

69. There's the pot calling the kettle a pot.

Really, it doesn't matter how many posts you have, if you're a freeper, you're a freeper.

What's your personal best for number of posts?

[maddezmom]

72. me thinks the newbie might be hitting a "personal best"

right soon. :)

[DrWeird]

75. Oh, I don't know...

sounds just like somebody who raced to 1000 before getting the boot.

[maddezmom]

80. ah, you're probably correct

but this one is not going to make it that far. ;)

[Hey Zeus]

79. ha. whats your personal best for

number of posts before insulting someone?

[cliss]

83. Saigon, you have my solidarity.

I've posted on virtually the same threads that you have for the past year (?). I know how you feel about things, because I've read the posts.

[Worst Username Ever]

3. America gets what America asks for.

[physioex]

10. I agree....

Let them learn the hard way....

[Zerex71]

20. And every one of them is blood on Bu$hCo's hands.

[Walt Starr]

42. And the month is half over

We are losing the war in Iraq.

[Catherine Vincent]

44. I won't name it, but I smell a freeper....

and it stinks to high heaven!

[maddezmom]

54. yes and a "godly" one, too!!

[Mr. Brown of MD]

62. icasualties has only 79 so far

The listing at http://www.icasualties.org/oif/ has only 79 US fatalities for this month so far. But from the Globe article...

Of the 91 or more U.S. deaths so far this month, it appears most were Marines. The 1st Marine Expeditionary Force led the charge into Fallujah and did much of the house-to-house fighting. Elements of the Army's 1st Cavalry Division and 1st Infantry Division also participated, along with Air Force attack jets and gunships and several battalions of U.S.-trained Iraqi troops.

That's about a dozen more fatalities than have even made it onto the list yet. I wonder what the lag-time in announcing more details about them is? It's not like they have to fear a backlash or anything... for Christ's sake, if 79 deaths in one half-month isn't enough to get people to take notice, 91 sure isn't going to be.

People talk about Afghanistan as the forgotten war. Well, it sure looks like almost everyone who doesn't have immediate family or close friends over in Iraq has forgotten about the Iraq war, too. This includes GWB and company, who have not and will never be honest about what American soldiers go through in Iraq. I think they know that if they tell the truth, far more people other than just the left will realize that it's not likely the sacrifices that have been made are worth the price being paid. So they lie, lie, lie...

And our soldiers die, die, die...

[pinto]

84. locking

For the string of insults and personal attacks.

Thanks,
DU Mod