For driver's license, Louisiana boys must register for the draft

[True_Blue]

ALEXANDRIA (AP) - When Larry Chevalier took his son to get his first driver's license, he was floored to discover that to get it, the boy had to preregister for a nonexistent military draft.

''I just can't believe it,'' said Chevalier, whose 16-year-old son, Nathan, did fill out the form to register with the Selective Service so he could get his license.

''They wouldn't let him get it otherwise,'' Chevalier said Saturday.

Even a 15-year-old boy who wants a learner's permit in Louisiana must provide information to be forwarded, when he turns 18, to the Selective Service System, which would run a military draft if one is set up again.

more....
http://www.deridderdailynews.com/articles/2004/11/16/news/news2.txt

[Bluebear]

1. As this red state drops its collective jaw

Surprise, boys!

[IndianaGreen]

23. Looks like the rumors about a draft may have been more than rumors

The problem with a draft is that will radicalize a lot of people against the war. Not even the military wants a draft!

[Stargazer09]

80. Maybe.

I agree with you, IndianaGreen. I'm in the Reserves, and personally, I would hate to be a volunteer in the military during a draft. Can you imagine trying to work with people who are being forced to do their jobs? Military life is not easy under the best of circumstances, but it would be much worse if people didn't even have the choice about whether or not to be there. To have a bunch of conscripts working alongside people who chose to serve would create quite a few difficulties.

I live in Louisiana (although I'm an Oregonian), and I'm not surprised that they are collecting information about teenage boys. I bet it won't be long before they are collecting information about girls, as well. Remember, the draft proposals that were being thrown around included women, too.

I have two sons who will be 18 between now and 2008. I can only hope that we can somehow avoid a draft. If we can't, we'll see what happens.

Oh, and to the people who think that those of us living in red states deserve what happens, please remember that we're not worthless just because our neighbors are idiots.

[newyawker99]

83. Hi Roxi!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[Stargazer09]

94. Thanks for the welcome!

I've been lurking on DU for the past couple of years, but I just started posting recently. I'm glad to be here.

:bounce:

[mrbassman03]

95. Welcome, welcome!

Good point too!

[The Backlash Cometh]

48. har, har, snarf.

Who du-ju vote for?

[Julius Civitatus]

104. Who got punked?

Louisiana went overwhelmingly Repug on Nov. 2. Who got punked now?

Uncle Cheney will give you a nice vacation break somewhere near Iran.

[FM Arouet666]

2. I think this is standard, no?

It has been a long time since I applied for a learner's permit, but I think I had to fill out the selective service thing at the time. I got mine in California. I may be wrong?

[Flammable Materials]

3. Perhaps, I don't remember, but PRE-REGISTERING them?

It's a good thing that liberal kids usually don't turn their nose up at public transportation.

[FM Arouet666]

10. All I know is

I will not register again. I could still be drafted in the so called medical draft. I will be damned if I return any info back to the selective service agency. Hell, if they still have the don't ask don't tell policy, I'll ask, tell, I'll even demonstrate to avoid this nonsense.:evilgrin:

[Hobarticus]

12. They gotcha...

Doubt they'll need anything esle from you, unless they call you up.

I'm sure this is ONE bureaucracy that runs smoothly.

[Breeze54]

34. Standard?? Maybe in a FACIST society!

Registration for the draft has always been, as far as I know, a federal law that states boys must register at the age of eighteen. They can register within 30 days before the 18th birthday and by 30 days after the 18th birthday.
But NOT AT 15 and 16!!
Talk about putting pressure on these kids!
I think the ACLU should look long and hard at this one!!
:wtf:

[newyawker99]

84. Hi Breeze54!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[Arkana]

91. True. I did it at 18, when I got my driver's license

but 15-16 year old kids? What the hell is wrong with the state of Louisiana?!

[Gore1FL]

36. I had to when I was 18 -- it was Ronald Reagan thing

but 16?

[Panda1]

67. My sons in CA....19 and 16...

...for the older his CDL was irrelevant but the SECOND he turned 18, he was required by CA law to register with Selective Service almost 2 years ago. The other son has one year and a month and is also REQUIRED by law to register yet he does NOT drive. Son number one, attending college, is receiving FREQUENT calls from people like "this is Sgt. Flores" and we'd like to talk to you about the joys of joining the military.
Get ready...there WILL be a draft.

[justjones]

68. Innocent boys like your sons....

is what makes me feel like standing in front of the train that is this administration to stop them from using them like cannon fodder for their "wars." Before it's all said and done, I'm sure we will probably have to do something similar to stop *.

I know it's an understatement to say that you must be really worried. I'm there with you:(.

[mark11727]

107. Sgt. Flores, can I go fly planes in Texas just like the preznit....?

...and if I get bored, can I go do some campaign work instead...?

[mrbassman03]

96. No way! For financial aid for college it is though...

That pissed me off to no end...

[auburngrad82]

142. All eighteen year olds are required to register

What's unusual is that Bush has asked the Selective Service to make sure that their records are up to date and that all 18-year olds are registered. They are also supposed to threaten anyone who is not registered with possible jail time.

That doesn't sound like your normal everyday process. It looks like they're gearing up to start using Selective Service for the first time since Vietnam.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

4. Tough shit...red state

[muse]

31. I am sick to death of this red state BS!!! Plenty of us in red states

did not vote for Bush! And for the millionth time, the DNC did not set up camp and did not send money to many red states - period. I am in Texas and the DNC did not give us one cent, not even for our state races. This red state talk divides us even further. The vote was nearly 50/50. It's bad enough that Democrats know when they go vote in Texas that their "vote won't count." Same thing in Louisiana for the Dem voters. And, thanks a lot for not caring about our draft age boys in the red states. Thanks a whole damn lot. This kind of attitude is going to attract a whole lot of voters our way in 2008.

[Breeze54]

35. We are all Americans..there are only "shafted by Bush states!"

Hey muse;
Don't let them get your dander up!
I feel bad for the Dems in the so called Republican Majority states as I've heard there has been a lot of gloating by the cons at the Dems.
You are not alone!!
I seem to live in a very RED county in a VERY BLUE state and I proudly have my (No More W) bumperstickers on my car!!


:loveya:
:thumbsup:

[Arkana]

92. If we're gonna go that way

Then the number of states shafted by Dubya would equal 50, now wouldn't it? However, the states where the majority of the people are too dumb to realize they've been shafted by Dubya equals about 30.

[Justyce]

40. I am sick of it too, but here's a little food for thought:

As much as we hate being labeled as a red state, I saw on the "apologies accepted" site where someone posted a red/blue map of the entire world, and the U.S. is a red country because it elected Bush, so maybe that'll put it in perspective for those bashing the red states where we dems fought very hard to get others to see the light.... not to mention that most of our states had nearly half repubs in them, some just a few more than others, so no state is 100% blue....

[genieroze]

76. The District of Columbia

is pretty darn close.

[buddysmellgood]

133. You make a good point. People have wanted to strike back

at Bush and his "liberal media" making such a big deal about the ocean of red on the map. We heard it endlessly. Making the case that it's really a purple map was just lost on people, so folks started slinging this blue state/red state crap. We are hurting ourselves once again. I'm from a barely blue state. I know I'd be pissed to be hearing Wisconsin called a red state all the time. Keep fighting.

[Ducks In A Row]

5. bet dad supports bush and voted for him

say goodbye to baby boy. he's on his way to die for bush

[nadinbrzezinski]

6. Chortle, but there is not gonna be a draft

ok... yep, really... SNARF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[MADem]

7. Jesus, Mary and Joseph

This is egregious. And they passed the law, in the dead of night, and no one spoke up...

[alaintex]

75. It's everywhere

As of October 19, 2004, 33 states, 3 territories, and the District of Columbia have enacted driver's license laws supporting SSS registration.

[newyawker99]

86. Hi alaintex!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[Hobarticus]

8. Interesting...Selective Service is a national office, so

Why hasn't this turned up anywhere else?

[carpetbagger]

9. This is nothing new.

Drivers licence agencies get names of teenage boys and hound them endlessly. I was in Maryland when I turned 18 and had to register (this was well after Vietnam), but I also had an old learner's permit in Florida. Florida hounded me for years about not registering in that state, which I moved out of when I was 15.

What freaking idiots who think that Selective Service somehow just went away.

[nadinbrzezinski]

13. Diference is

they have NOT enforced this shit in years...

Oh this is in line wiht the Nov 4th Federal Registry... it is coming

Left, left, left right left, now how chickenhawks march, left, left, left right left, chickenhawks love for others to die for us, left, left, left, right, now it is my ass on the line....

All I say is GOOD, it is their ass on the line

[Tight_rope]

132. LMBAO....you crazy fool!

[geekgrrl]

47. yeah I remember my brother having to do this in Maine 10 years ago n/t

[seriousstan]

11. H.B. `HUNT' DOWNER JR. conservative Dem. passed this fool law.

It goes counter to the federal regulations.
As per the selective service web site....

Early Submission: It is now possible for a man to submit registration information early, as long he is at least 17 years and 3 months old. Selective Service will keep his information on file and process it automatically later in the year, when the man is within 30 days of reaching his 18th birthday. An acknowledgment card will be mailed to the man when his registration is processed.

How did this fool get appointed and where did he come from?

[Barkley]

14. Doesn't college financial aid require SSS registration too?

[Hobarticus]

15. Yes...one way or another, they'll get your name eom

[nadinbrzezinski]

17. Yep and per Nov Fouth Fed Registry

now they are ordering schools to cross check...

That my friend is wicket two to ensure the system works.

[Minstrel Boy]

16. Have you seen this: "Government looking at military draft lists"

Government looking at military draft lists

November 15, 2004

...

The Selective Service System (SSS) and the U.S. Department of Education now are gearing up to compare their computer records, to make sure all men between the ages of 18 and 25 who are required to register for a military draft have done so.

The SSS and the education department will begin comparing their lists on Jan. 1, 2005, according to a memo authored by Jack Martin, acting Selective Service director.

While similar record checks have been done periodically for the past 10 years, Martin’s memo is dated Oct. 28, just a few days before the Nov. 2 presidential election, a hard-fought campaign in which the question of whether the nation might need to reinstate a military draft was raised in debates and on the stump.

It took several more days, until Nov. 4, for the document to reach the Federal Register, the official daily publication for rules and notices of federal agencies and organizations.

http://www.brownsvilleherald.com/ts_more.php?id=62232_0_10_0_C

[AspenRose]

19. Here we go....

Ready for another collective round of red-state voter buyer's remorse?

Steel yourselves and stand tough....we TRIED to tell these people

[nadinbrzezinski]

20. Actually LOOKING forwards to some of that

buyers remorse,

Have told them PRE EMPTIVELY, I don't want to hear bout it.

They truly do not get it, truly

On the, man are you reading the same news the rest of us are deparment, I was told today, "it will not be that bad and this cabinet will be far more moderate."

Good thing, I was not drinking anything or I would have splattered my keyboard!

;-)

[AndyTiedye]

24. Some Of them Might Have a SECOND CHANCE

If all the Repubs with kids in Ohio and Florida (and New Mexico and...)
started screaming for recounts and audits, maybe the fraud story might
gain a little more traction.

[buddysmellgood]

134. Kerry would likely have had to draft as well.

The sad fact is that we are so overextended, that if another country farts in our general direction, we will have to have a draft. We don't even have a spare person to open a window.

[Fleshdancer]

18. Hasn't this always been the case?

I (barely) remember drivers ed when I was 15 and the instructor telling the young men that in order to get their licence, they would have to register with the SS.

:shrug:

I guess it hits home a bit harder though in times of war.

[nadinbrzezinski]

21. LICENCE not learners permit

Anyway get ready, this will be fun... NOT

[seriousstan]

22. No, it was enacted in the 2003 season ...here is the bill

http://www.legis.state.la.us/leg_docs/03RS/CVT2/OUT/0000KQHV.PDF

[The_Urge]

61. It was authored by a dem

[GingerSnaps]

25. Hey, Bush Voters!

We told you so didn't we.

[chicagojoe]

26. I'm sure the Red States will be more than happy...

... to give their children to the Pentagon. They were dumb enough to vote for Meat Head, weren't they ???

[muse]

33. Or, how about those of you in the blue states, go find your Bush voters

and volunteer them. SAME THING!! Quit saying red state voters. You are talking Bush voters.

[Sleepless In NY]

37. muse why so defensive?

The Red States gave the presidency to bush, it's only fitting they now give their sons and daughters. I'd also like to see the Red States start picking up their own tab. IF we can't reason with them, then hit them in the wallet, maybe that would make them wake up. I would think as a blue voter in a red state, you would approve of an "awakening" for them. By the way blue state California, has lost more soldiers than any of the red states.

[Name removed]

41. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Poll Ally]

115. That's because the military bases are IN CA

Many move to California Sleepless to live in the warm climate around San Diego. I know many officers that served both in DS1 and in South Korea. Before they settled down and got married they loved living in SoCal.

The premise that the red states should somehow be punished is silly. You'd starve to death without the middle of this country to feed you. There aren't a lot of farms on Long Island last I checked.

[madrchsod]

27. hows this-

our 32 year old son had to find his sel.serv. card to get his college grants and loans..good thing they`ll never take him.

[bumblebee1]

28. Draft

Why oh why doesn't LA require girls to pre-register for the draft? I'm all for equal opportunity. If a woman can enlist in the military, why can't they be drafted?

[nadinbrzezinski]

30. SHHH don't tell anyone

how do you think SOME MALES avoided the draft in Nam?

Tehy SUED.

I expect, when the draft bill is officially drafted and signed by chimpster, to INCLUDE WOMEN, because of this reason.

[RaleighNCDUer]

57. What draft bill?

I could be wrong, I often am, but my impression is that no bill would have to go through congress. The selective service machinery is in place, registration is the law of the land. Isn't all that is needed is an executive order to activate it?

[Anakin Skywalker]

126. Hey good point, my man!

:)

[Bigmack]

29. How come no women ....

in this thing? Women are in virtually every job in the military... serving pretty well.

I know a paternalistic country like this would never pass an equal rights amendment to the Constitution, but isn't there some lawyers dying to challenge an all-male draft? Betty Sue certainly can be cannon-fodder, too.

Relatively few college kids voted this time... relatively few young people generally. Fuck 'em! Let them get diddled by Uncle Sam a little bit, and they certainly will learn to pay more attention next time.

[Norquist Nemesis]

32. Oh that's coming!

The true 'equality of the sexes' in all things to continue the endless wars.

Get ready! Our daughters will be going through basic training then off to travel the world to be all they can be! :cry:

[Judi Lynn]

38. Odd bit found in a search in google news, under"selective service"

new jersey headquarters of the selective service system is in need of volunteers to serve on Local Boards throughout the State of New Jersey. Volunteers will hear and decide on the claims of men attempting to avoid or postpone military service due to conscientious objection, hardship for families, or status as students or ministers of religion in the event that a draft is put into affect. During peacetime, members go through 12 hours of training and must attend 4 refresher hours per year. If the board is activated volunteers must meet as needed to hear the claims of the young men in their community. American citizens at least 18 years old, who do not work in law enforcement and are not on active or retired military duty, can apply online at www.sss.gov or call [phone] for more information.
(snip)

http://www.northjersey.com/page.php?qstr=eXJpcnk3ZjczN2Y3dnFlZUVFeXkzNTkmZmdiZWw3Zjd2cWVlRUV5eTY2MTM4ODQmeXJpcnk3ZjcxN2Y3dnFlZUVFeXkz

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Scroll below the first one half of the page. This paragraph is worked into a larger article, named "Help wanted: volunteers."

Don't you find the wording very HARSH?

I genuinely believe there will be more small references to a draft showing up all over the place. This definitely has the feeling of something which is already underway, doesn't it?

[Chiyo-chichi]

54. During peacetime, members go through 12 hours of training ...

"Peacetime?" What is that? Anybody here remember "Peacetime?"

What a pre-9/11 mindset.

[RaleighNCDUer]

58. I recall reading, tho I have no links now, that in Jan '03 the

selective service system was ordered to be made fully operational, fully staffed, nation wide. Apparently some draft boards had atrophied to just one or two members, not enough to do the job. This sounds like part of that move.

[Hekate]

39. "No Child Left Behind" has provisions to collect boys' info...

Groups engaged in counter-recruitment activities have been trying to make parents and high school students aware that the No Child Left Behind Act requires high schools to send info on boys to the DOD. There is an opt-out provision but you have to know about it first -- and the schools can't just opt-out all their students on their own or they face loss of funding etc.

The relevance to the Louisiana case is that the masters of war are trolling for as much cannon fodder as they can possibly get, in every way possible. Males have to register with the non-existent draft at 18 anyway -- what does the DOD need with the info on 15 and 16 year olds except as a form of record-keeping from which no one will ever escape. Rather like the old USSR, a jaundiced observer might say.

In any case, the DOD already has means of extra-early recruitment: ROTC is explicitly a recruitment tool, and high school career days always include a few representatives of our armed services to tell kids how nifty it is. As one of my VFP friends told the school board: unlike most other careers, military service is a career in which you can readily get killed.

What Louisiana needs are some Conscientious Objectors groups, Friends, and Vets for Peace to spread the word about this latest stealth recruiting tool. Louisiana undoubtedly has some of these folks already -- people just need to hear what they're saying. Maybe this father's outrage will help some of his fellow citizens to wake up and pay attention to what their state legislators are doing.

I don't wish the so-called Red States any harm -- their kids are dying too.

Hekate

[0007]

42. The first big wave to slap ya in the face.

[MSgt213]

43. First I don't know how we would pay for a draft. Second it's going to be

funny as hell when all these young people start showing up either "I'm gay I can't serve" or some so filled up on drugs they can't take the physical or taking any other of a number of things to make sure their pee shows they have some type of condition that disqualifies them from serving.

Don't forget even if they are forced through the physical some how they still have to make it uninjured through basic training. In other words there are so many ways other then running to Canada that young people will be able to dodge a draft these days.

If the government goes on the assumption that it can write and produce rules to figure out how to combats the young peoples ability to get around them I wish them luck.

[peacemama]

101. how are we paying for any of this?

[RetroLounge]

44. I hope your car is red, like your state

RL

[phasev]

45. mandatory

Selective Service registration has always been mandatory for as long as I can remember. I don't think there is going to be a draft.

[DUBYASCREWEDUS]

46. ALL TOGETHER NOW: "TOLD YOU SO!"

Let's see; didn't a certain fumbling, bumbling, stumbling Moron proclaim during some recent debates that those rumors on the "internets" about the draft were not true! How I can't wait for the little Republican offsprings to head for Iraq! Jenna? Barbara? Jorge P.? Are you ready?

[csboesen]

81. What is the matter with my fellow Americans????

I have to say that I am ashamed of my party right now! There is not going to be any draft!!!!! It will never work, we learned that in Vietnam! You can make people who dont want to go and fight, to go fight! I am ashamed at the fact that my party... ie.. Charles Rangle and other (D) Rep. would put the measure forward and then tell everyone that GW Bush is going to bring the draft back. And then when it comes to a vote, they voted against it! I am a US ARMY RANGER and I can tell you that we want to be in Iraq. Whether we support Bush or not, we want to be there with our buddies! Just as we did under Clinton when I was in Somalia, Bosnia, and other places he sent us that you dont know about, we wanted to be there! We see daily how young men and women are stepping up to go and fight, by joining the military. Military recruiting is at an all time high... every branch is over there quotas! That says alot about the young men and women of this country! But when I hear my party members say "I can't wait for the little Republican offspring to head for Iraq?" YOU ARE SO SAD! You belittle our current military members when say you or your kids are TOO good for the military! See what you are missing is that we are in Iraq to the end, whether you like it or not, we are there! START TO SUPPORT THE CAUSE OF OUR SOLDIERS!!!! You may think your supporting Bush by doing this, but your actually supporting the people who are over there fighting and not giving aid to the enemy to use against our pows!

[DUBYASCREWEDUS]

99. EXCUSE ME?

Why don't you look up the names of the 1,203 soldiers killed in Iraq as of this date. I guarantee you they don't come from the well to do Republican chickenhawk families who send them there. Don't tell me you are "ashamed" of your party. How dare you? I am ashamed that America is asleep at the switch by letting this chickenhawk President, 5-time deferred vice-president and a slew of other chickens send our sons and daughters to die in Iraq. Yes, you go look up those names. I guarantee you won't find the names, "Bush", "Cheney", "Rumsfield", "Frist", Hasteret". And take a good look at where these American treasures come from - they are the minorities, the poor, those using the army to afford an education. Don't you preach to me about "values". Come back and let me know what you think when the total killed is 12,203. And by the way - THERE WILL BE A DRAFT - COUNT ON IT. Rangel is right: If there is a draft the loudest and longest cry you will hear will be from REPUBLICANS trying to figure out how to DEFER their children from service. (Daddy Bush ring a bell??)

[alaintex]

105. I guarantee you won't find the names, "Bush", "Cheney", "Rumsfield", "Fris

Pfc. Charles E. Bush Jr.
Killed in a convoy in Balad, Iraq, on December 19, 2003

Pvt. Matthew D. Bush
Died in his sleep in Kirkush, Iraq, on August 8, 2003

[Tight_rope]

135. Oh! Give me a break...I'm sure they are not directly related to the Chimp!

[alaintex]

140. I agree you’re probably right,

but I didn’t “guarantee” that they were.

DUBYASCREWEDUS challenged us twice to look up the names and guaranteed us they didn’t exist - but they do.

And now you’re “sure” they’re not related. Like I said, they’re probably not, but I’m still not going to “guarantee” it.

[DUBYASCREWEDUS]

141. GIVE ME A BREAK!

You are sooo right! I would bet my life they are not related to the Chimp! Hey, does anybody think Mr. Moron will bring another plastic turkey to the troops this year? Probably not; Iraq is just a wee bit too dangerous this year for his chickenhawk ass!

[peacemama]

100. Learn?

No obviously we didn't learn too much from Vietnam?

[Anakin Skywalker]

127. LOL!

Too rich.

[Name removed]

49. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[RaleighNCDUer]

59. We know all this -- look at the list yourself. How many of these

states require the pre-registration of 15 year olds? That is what incensed the original poster.

[Poll Ally]

116. It is idiotic

But you know, somewhere along the line this was voted on by either the people, or the legislature and chances are nobody bothered to go vote against it or read the paper.

It's been going on up here in Massachusetts for decades, not a big deal.

[Samurai_Writer]

50. They have been doing this in Texas for years

When my son turned 18 five years ago and got his license, he had to sign up for the Selective Service at the same time. Nothing new.

[johnnie]

56. 18 is one thing

They are making them sign up for the SSS at 16. The law in LA. passed in 2003.

[goddess40]

51. Wisconsin too!

When my son got his permit last week on the application was a notice that by applying for the permit you were giving permission to give the information to the selective service board. Most people won't even notice it - it is probably on most state's applications for learner permits, it's just that most people don't read the fine print.

[APE131313]

52. License application? Check out Florida

I am 63 yrs old and a Florida driver. I have been renewing my DL for many yrs either Thur the mail or on line. This past yr after sending in my renewal I kept the form near the computer to put away later. When I picked it up to file I just happened to look at the BACK and found the affidavit that stated 'by signing you agreed to be registered for the Selective Service and applied to BOTH male and FEMALE applicants! Also noted that it would apply when the applicant reached the age of 18.
I work with many teen aged kids and for the fun of it I asked them ALL how many had registered for the draft when they turned 18. NONE had or so they thought until I asked them if they had a drivers license and showed them my PROOF that it was a DONE deal! I raged about it for months and still carry the document in my wallet and bring it up whenever I can. TRUE!
Aprille

[yellowcanine]

53. This may actually be illegal. ACLU should test the legality of these

state laws. In the absence of a probable cause of a crime having been committed, government does not have the right to forward information collected for one purpose (driver's license) to another government agency.

[Name removed]

55. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[RaleighNCDUer]

60. Again, what you cite specifies the age of 18, not 15 or 16.

Appreciate the quality research, tho.

Welcome to DU.

[NinetySix]

62. Rise and shine, Louisiana! Bet you're wide awake now!

Freedom isn't free. Perhaps you didn't see the price tag when you were voting? You were free to vote for Bush of course, but you may end up with some hellacious buyers remorse.

[Jivenwail]

63. Along these same lines

Some friends of ours who have 2 sons, one 20 the other 16, answered a phone call meant for the 16 year old. It was Marine recruiter who got the boys' name from his High School! He had already talked to the boy once and arranged to meet him at the recruiting office but called to re-schedule. I can't begin to tell you how angry this father was and remains so today! He told the Marine recruiter that his son was only 16 and needed his permission to even meet with the recruiter and told him never to call back. He has also taken the matter up with the school. Not sure what the outcome of that was, but will find out when we see them this weekend.

16 years old, same as the boy in LA. 16!!! This is just heinous.

[johnnie]

64. They have always talked to 16 year olds

I know when I was in high school (80-83) the recruiters were in the school talking to anyone they could. The situation here in the story is that the law has been changed quietly and it seems that people are just finding out that their kids are registering for the selective service without the knowledge of it.

[qazplm]

74. yes that is true

when i was in college in the late 80s, I was part of the Air Force ROTC, and one of the programs was sending cadets back to the high schools to give a briefing on ROTC in college.

Not quite the same thing as enlisted recruiters, but if you can do one, you can do the other. I actually dont have a problem with recruiters being in high schools, but I do agree that parents should be informed and have the ability to opt their children out if they dont want their kids exposed to that.

[Name removed]

65. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[mockmonkey]

69. A 16 year old might not

know that some recruiters lie to get them to sign up.

[Condor]

70. Facts

If you're asking about facts, don't suggest the father is abusive.

But let me offer another explanation: the recruiters are feeding the young boys with propaganda, and try to get them to thinking the war in Iraq is a good thing. The father knows better, and wants to keep his son alive. So he gets angry with the recruiter, he's protecting his kid. Good father if you ask me.

[shuffnew]

66. Kerry warned... some didn't believe or listen...

Kerry made it clear that going into a pre-emptive war in Iraq has stressed our military to the max and that the "back door draft" would not hold up much longer either with the "no plan to win" Bush plan.

Reinstatement of the draft is obvious since there is little to no chance of a change of direction from the Bush administration.

Tightening up on locating the draft victims is step 1. It's not just Louisiana that tracks. Procedures will likely be tightened up so they are set to go to the next step (mandatory draft).

[Poll Ally]

78. What about Massachusetts

Huh, I never knew Dukakis was planning to reinstate the draft in 1984 when he signed the law that required anyone in MA to register or lose all opportunities for state aid. This is STATE, not federal aid. Massachusetts was one of the first States in the USA to pass the law, a State where 97% of the legislators are democrats and every rep or senator down in DC is a democrat.

It gets a little ridiculous to continually see so many people jump to conclusions without actually doing any research. Heck it's like watching Countdown on MSNBC!

Has anyone told that dope Olbermann that the exit polls showed Bush winning in Ohio and Florida?

http://www.sss.gov/FSstateleg.htm

[zulchzulu]

71. Support your President and his War For Freedom

Being that Louisiana has proven that Bush is fighting terrorism and the leader of Moral Values, sending your spawn into the battle should be a source of pride.

Praise Je$u$!

[VegasWolf]

137. Freedom? I'm confused, I thought this was about oil.

[ThorsHammer]

72. Radio ads

FWIW, I've been hearing a lot of radio ads recently about registering with the SSS - how you have to do so to get financial aid for school, drivers' licenses, etc. I'm very worried that they're trying to make it seem mainstream and that they are all set to start the draft as soon as Bush calls for it. I'm surprised that we couldn't make a bigger issue of this during the election, as I'm sure some GOP voters would change their minds once they realize Bush's policies could cause their child to be drafted.

[newyawker99]

88. Hi ThorsHammer!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[kenny2008]

73. Support on both sides of the aisle

Well sort of. Charles Rangel (D-NY) actually spearheaded this idea about a year ago with support from John Conyers (D-MI), http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2003/01/03/MN169142.DTL. Rangel then voted against his own bill,http://www.hillnews.com/news/100604/rangel.aspx.

http://64.233.161.104/search?q=cache:ynx5dznRj-wJ:www.bushdraft.com/proof.html+bush+draft&hl=en&client=firefox-a

[Poll Ally]

79. state by state breakdown.

Here is a listing of all the States and their various laws FWIW. Whether it is right or wrong in peoples opinion, the fact is many democratic states were the first to enact these laws back in the 80's.


http://www.sss.gov/FSstateleg.htm

[strategery blunder]

82. He introduced the draft bill to bring up awareness of the issue

because the whoremedia was (and still is) ignoring it.

If Rangel voted against his own bill, what makes you think he'll vote in favor of a draft this time?:eyes:

Welcome to DU.:)

[kenny2008]

90. point taken

that Rangel's only trying to make a point. I'm not sure if that's the best use of a legislator's time but that's another discussion.

I'm against the draft, as is the vast majority of the US. This will never get seriously introduced, let alone passed, so you needn't worry.

[strategery blunder]

103. I'm still worrying about it...

If chimpy somehow magically restrains himself from making a new mess in Iran or Syria, you might be right. However, when chimpy starts a new war "RAWR I AM COWB0Y RA3R!!!111!," he'll threaten the republicons in congress the same way he slandered Max Cleland for being "unpatriotic" in the 2002 elections. bu$h* will probably frighten enough congresscritters with KKKarl Rove backing him up.

I am quite worried about a draft...:scared::nuke:

[newyawker99]

89. Hi kenny2008!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[kenny2008]

98. Thanks!!

[FighttheFuture]

117. Rangle was not trying to bring back the draft... he was making a

point that it will be needed if we keep with the BushCo disaster. These days, a Dem has to do something outrageous to get any notice by the media.

[alaintex]

123. Rangle bluffed and got called

It may be true that he was trying to be outrageous to get notice by the media, I don’t know his motives, but it might be more reasonable to conclude that he wanted to push a bill telling Repubs that even their kids would be sent to war, not just the existing volunteer service.

[Poll Ally]

77. Massachusetts has had this law for over 20 years

The only blue state that didn't vote for Reagan was also the one that passed this very law in 1984. It was a democrat that allowed it to become law, none other than Michael Dukakis.

The state forbids anyone that does not register from qualifying for any type of state aid. This is one step further than states that forbid federal aid. Massachusetts blocks any and all local or federal aid.

I still think you should blame George Bush though because it makes sense that 16 years before he became President the bluest of the blue states passed the law.

[Dem Agog]

85. Louisiana went deep, dark red...

Seems to me they want more wars, more bloodshed. Surely they want their sons and daughters over there participating in it?

Sorry, but every person who voted for Bush should not only realize that they deserve to have their children drafted, but that they practically begged Bush to do it.

[DS1]

87. It doesn't make any sense to thin the red state herds

:shrug:

[okieinpain]

93. well that's a good thing. I'm pretty sure they just love them some

bush. now they can make a blood sacrifice to prove it.

[goodhue]

97. selective service registration is hardly new

I had to do it in 1986 in order to receive federal perkins loan.
Virtually all males are required to do so upon turning 18.

http://www.sss.gov/QA.HTM

[Poll Ally]

114. Thanks

As a long time writer here with over 1000+ posts it's nice to see goodhue post some facts.

It's pretty simple really, if you want the feds to pay for your education or finance it, or in many cases your home state, you have to register for the draft. In some states they consider it a felony but won't chase you down if you don't register, but you cannot then qualify for any state and federal funds and IMO, rightfully so.

The law went into effect here in MA in 1984.

[ucmike]

102. not surprising.

when i turned 18 i ignored the SS registration. seemed like crap to my young, rebellious mind. i ignored the postcard reminder that showed up, i ignored the second one that showed up. f**k them, i thought.
the third notice i got wasn't a little postcard. it was the selective services registration form completely filled out, with my height, weight, etc. there was current info on there they could only have gotten from my high school. some one there must have been helpful enough to provide it.

the form listed the things i gave up by not signing- financial aid, etc-and also listed the prison terms and fines i was eligible for by not registering.

they didn't get the info from my drivers license yet. i got my ss form before my permit. i was unknown to the njdmv at that time.

needless to say, i signed the thing and learned how many helpful people right in my town were willing to go along with government.--


a side note. when i was just out of highschool, my employer was on the local draft board. this was during the gulf war. he told me that our local district had not only updated the list of who was available for any draft, they personally went through the list and found out where all the eligible males were (my name was there-of course). many were away at college, so they got their school addresses for the files. he told me that even during that war we weren't too far away from an active draft and that the preliminary work was mostly done. had TPTB decided to do so it would have gone into action almost immediately.

[Katmandoo122]

106. Talk about a tempest in a tea-pot

A) There will be no draft - everyone knows that, though some will seize on drafts as political capital (on BOTH sides of the aisle)

B) It is scary that the language people use here with regard to having to give your information early is very similar to the language that NRA-ites use to fight gun registration - that being that the government is going to use the information for some nefarious plot (whether it be to send all of us on a needless war or to whether it's so they know what houses to go to first when they decide to put us in our place).

A word of advice: When you start to sound like your enemies, it's time to take another look at your message.

[Poll Ally]

113. Exacto!

Exactly what I was thinking. This sounds just like the nuts on the right that think they need machine guns or worse, should actually have to register their lethal weapons.

The problem right now is there is a ton of good information on these sites, but everyone is jumping on absolutely everything with the help of Olbermann and his clan on MSNBC but like them, many are misinformed. This "new" registration has gone on in many states for decades and one of the most stringent states is my own, Massachusetts. The law was drawn up by a majority democratic legislature and signed by a former democratic presidential candidate and a fine governor, Mike Dukakis.

So, either the #1 blue state is out to get everyones 18 year olds in a nefarious plot, or this is really not big news.

[kelbi27]

108. Why have kids for them?

All this stuff makes me glad I didn't have children. Perhaps if people stopped giving birth during this administration, they would get them message that we don't want them to be cannon fodder?

[esvhicl]

112. Conscientious objector status

Well, if you're glad that you didn't have children, I am quaking in my boots, being the mom of 18 & 15 year old sons.

I have been a peace activist my whole life, first in the sixties and more recently before the invasion of Iraq. And for other pacifists out there here is some information.

When registering for the draft be sure to write "CONSCIENTIOUS OBJECTOR" on any and all communication with the selective service.

For more info: http://www.objector.org/

It isn't too early to start to build up a file, just in case.

[Poll Ally]

118. question

This is a serious question, not a flame. I understand your belief against war. I wish we'd never go to war but history has proven that impossible. Would you have objected after 12/7/41 too or is this specific to Iraq?

[alaintex]

121. Let's not use the kids as pawns

Nothing personally against you, but let’s not suggest that loving couples in 2004 should sacrifice having children for 4 years just to boycott an unlikely draft that these little children – age 0 to 3 - will never be involved in. It would be like asking your parents during the war of their day, WW2, or Korea, or VN to not give birth to you for their political purposes.

This started to be a serious rebut, but I realized how unhelpful your request is. If we – all people throughout history, not just America 2004 – had taken your advice and stopped giving birth during war, we’d no longer exist because the enemies of civilization would win.

I hope we can be more positive.

[Poll Ally]

131. Agreed

I agree and that's all I was asking in the thread too.

The hate has to stop, it got the democratic party a bigger loss than 2000 and a bunch of Hollywood yahoos. That party did better without the hate.

[Hieronymus]

109. Oh, Right

Oh, NOOOOOO, there won't be a draft. Of course there will be one, what's the last thing Junior Bush told the truth about?:crazy: :crazy:

[AlFrankenFan]

110. I just got the worst chill

It reminds me of how when applying to my HS, you have to sign like three papers that keeps the school from releasing your name to recruiters.

:scared:

[Tess49]

111. Selective service

I have a 22 year old mentally handicapped son. The different branches of the military have been calling for ages in an effort to sign him up. At first I politely explained the situation and asked them not to call my house any more. They persist. The last time I talked to one (I usually don't -- the caller ID tips me off), I threw a frigging fit and told them to leave us alone. Ten minutes later later they called back and asked if I knew any OTHER young men who might like to earn money for college. I told them that it's difficult to spend tuition money if you've been killed in a war and I honestly couldn't recommend anyone for Bozo boy's illegal war. Any suggestions?

[Anakin Skywalker]

128. Does the No Call List apply?

I wish I had paid more attention when that made the news. I think gov't affiliated agencies like military recruitment offices are exempted from the No Call List. If so, that's too bad. It certainly would've help you to slap a couple of lawsuits on these recruiters who cannot take a hint.

[RubyCat]

119. There's going to be a draft.

When the draft comes, the neocon fantasy will run headlong into the brick wall of reality.

[alaintex]

122. It's not one man's choice.

Military Size and Needs. By law, each year Congress sets the maximum size of the active duty and reserve forces. They do this by passing the Military Authorization Act and Military Appropriations Act. Each year, Congress has the option to increase the authorized size of the military -- and they have chosen not to do so

[eyepaddle]

120. This post is sure attracting a TON

of brand new posters--is this perhaps linked from soome right-wing web page?

[Tess49]

124. New posters

In my case, I have been reading posts for a few days now. I don't know how I missed this place. I found it when I read somewhere else that some right winger had written to Homeland Security about it. That sparked my interest and here I am.

[Poll Ally]

130. Excellent site

I'm thrilled with the site too, although I probably border more on being a moderate slightly more to the right than most posting. It's nice to have discussions and there are some very intelligent people here.

I may not entirely agree with some of the approaches being taken, but I've got immense admiration for the energy Bev and others are expending. I don't want her running around again in 08, or 2012.... let's get the ball rolling on serious reform driven by the voters, for the voters.

[Tight_rope]

136. Welcome to DU Tess49!

[Anakin Skywalker]

125. Rednecks 4 Bush!

Most of these kids can thank their pappies and mommies for voting Shrub. I know. I know. There are Louisianans who did not vote for The Evil One and they don't deserve this, yes? I do hope they can move and just let the Bushites get what they voted for.

I am still angry over the election. :(

[Poll Ally]

129. I just don't get it

Why are people so wrapped up in this red state blue state CRAP? It doesn't exist, there are almost no blue states, almost no red states. Almost every state is a mix of red and blue. Even Massachusetts went almost 40% for Bush...MASSACHUSETTS!

You know, I'm not happy with the way the election went down, but I'm not going to wish some kid on the other side ends up drafted and dead serving his country.

I really wish they'd put Ann Coulter, Maureen Dowd, Michael Moore, Rush Limbaugh and a bunch of others on a boat and send them out of country. All they've done is create a divide in this country that doesn't exist. They are all beating the drum because somewhere around 20% of the american public voted on "moral values" <--whatever the hell that means. 20%, not 30, 40, 80, 20% even in red states in many cases. Everyone buys into their hype and watches their shows, it's ridiculous. Without the hate they don't have the ratings.

I talked to a client today at a major university in Boston. She was in tears talking about the election. I felt like saying, the USA is far more than any one president, any one election, any one political party - move on.

The interesting thing to me is the hate isn't coming out of Boston which is arguably the liberal capital of the USA. It's coming out of Hollywood and NYC and all it's doing is tearing the nation apart along lines that for the most part don't exist.

Go back over the last 20 years and look at some of the idiotic questions they've asked in the same slot as this years "moral values". You'll laugh when you see what's been voted #1 in the past.

I don't believe for a second the republicans won this election but I do think the democrats LOST the election. I'm a pro-choice, anti-gun, anti-discrimination, pro-social services/welfare voter, and I had an excruciatingly hard time supporting Kerry in this election and so did almost 40% of my fellow MA residents.

If they wanted to ask a real question in those exit polls they should have asked how many people were turning out to stick it to Maureen Dowd, Michael Moore or Rush Limbaugh...I bet that would have been 40%

[VegasWolf]

138. Only one thing i can imagine that is worse than the last four years,

and that is to be 18 and living in awol's ameriKa.

[VegasWolf]

139. Children, get your guns and vests now before the rush is on!

[kelbi27]

143. exactly