LAT: TiVo Will No Longer Skip Past Advertisers (will track viewing habits)

[DeepModem Mom]

TiVo Will No Longer Skip Past Advertisers
By Gina Piccalo, Times Staff Writer


When it debuted in 1999, TiVo revolutionized the TV experience by wresting control of screen time from advertisers, allowing viewers to record shows and skip commercials. TiVo's slogan said it all: "TV your way."

Behind the scenes, though, TiVo was courting advertisers, selling inroads to a universe most customers saw as commercial-free. The result is a groundbreaking new business strategy, developed with more than 30 of the nation's largest advertisers, that in key ways circumvents the very technology that made TiVo famous.

By March, TiVo viewers will see "billboards," or small logos, popping up over TV commercials as they fast-forward through them, offering contest entries, giveaways or links to other ads. If a viewer "opts in" to the ad, their contact information will be downloaded to that advertiser — exclusively and by permission only — so even more direct marketing can take place....

***

Perhaps even more significant is TiVo's new role in market research. As viewers watch, TiVo records their collective habits — second by second — and sells that information to advertisers and networks. (It was TiVo that quantified the effect of Janet Jackson's Super Bowl "wardrobe malfunction," reporting a 180% increase in the number of replays reported by viewers.)...


http://www.latimes.com/business/la-et-tivo17nov17,0,3236496.story?coll=la-home-headlines

[matcom]

1. I was considering buying a TiVo

not considering it anymore

[GCP]

2. Same here

Frikkin' big brother in your home.

[Bjornsdotter]

11. Ditto..

..they've just lost a customer.

[Voltaire99]

72. Same here.

No chance now.

[Renew Deal]

13. I have one.

So does VolcanoJen and alittlelark. I love my Tivo. I need to look into opt out options. It's so good that I may not care.

[eowyn_of_rohan]

26. I love Tivo too

I am trying to figure out if this will make any difference...just fast forward through commercials, and once you get into the show again, the billboards and pop-ups should stop at the same time--right?

[lostnfound]

76. Didn't they just make it illegal to skip commercials?

Yesterday some bill was being considered in congress to make it illegal to use such equipment to skip commercials.

Next step is toothpicks to prop our eyes open.

[alittlelark]

32. I am connected to the company, I'm gonna try to get the scoop

[Lex]

35. I have one too and I love it.

.
I'm considering getting a second one.

Frankly I don't care if something pops onto the screen while I'm fast-forwarding through commercials.

Also, Tivo getting the information about what I watch isn't any more upsetting to me than the grocery store getting the information about what food I buy when I use one of those "discount cards" offered by the grocery store.

[progressiveBadger]

43. Let them record what I watch...

I really could care less. So what if I get more junk in the mail, my mailbox is only so big anyway. TiVo rules too much to give it up.

[Renew Deal]

44. They will be confused by me.

I share it with my girlfriend. I record the Daily Show, Beavis and Butthead, weather disaster shows, alexander the great and some movies. She records IFC movies, Trading Spaces and that sort of thing. Let them figure it out.

[VolcanoJen]

48. Hey, Bleachers, my Tivo finally died.

:-(

Instead of buying another one, I went with the cable company DVR.

I miss the Tivo, but the DVR is a lot cheaper per month, lets me record two programs at the same time, and doesn't require a dial-out.

I love Tivo and always will, though. Only the modem is dead, so I've hooked it up to a bedroom TV and just use it for manual recording and pausing live TV. :D

[pokercat999]

61. I would probably give up TV altogether without TIVO.

What is needed is a hardware/software package to defeat this outrage!
Anybody wanta be a millionaire?

[lil-petunia]

14. my letter to Tivo's pres.

TiVo
2160 Gold Street
P.O. Box 2160
Alviso, CA 95002-2160

Attn: Marty Yudkovitz
November 17, 2004

Dear Mr. Yudkovitz:

When your product first came out, I was frankly in awe. I was elated and shocked that rational thought had finally bubbled up in America. It was my intention to purchase one or more of your products. That is, until I read the following news release from your company:


"We're thrilled that Busch Entertainment is taking advantage of TiVo's unique advertising capabilities to generate excitement around its Discovery Cove park and sweepstakes," said Marty Yudkovitz, president of TiVo. "TiVo makes it possible for companies like BEC to reach an attractive demographic and successfully measure the effectiveness of their advertising campaigns, all while offering consumers complete control over their digital entertainment."

Please accept this criticism as constructive, not some rant. The biggest two reasons that people flocked to your product were 1) convenience, and 2) the ability to skip annoying advertising. By “adding capacity” and permitting advertisers to measure the effectiveness of their campaigns, you are crossing the line into a land into which I do not wish to venture. To the contrary, I would much rather do without your product than risk suffering from what your enhancements will eventually lead to. You are, in effect, shooting yourselves in the foot. It is a shame, but I will never be able to purchase your new and improved machines. I value my privacy far too much. The path upon which your company has embarked is fraught with danger. For the consumer, that is.

As a typical consumer, I have growing concerns about our country’s direction on a variety of fronts. In every direction you look, you see the good, the bad and the very ugly in conjunction with our digital revolution. Unfortunately, your company’s new venture seems more in line with the “very ugly”.

The intrusiveness of today’s logo and brand-based world, the overwhelming numbers of annoying TV and internet ads, and the incessant drumbeat of inane theme music for Viagra, Celebrex, and Comet make today’s TV watching a chore, not a joy. Identity theft has become a real concern and personal privacy seems to be a quaint, obsolete concept. Digital trade wars have already begun, especially with the growing lack of security with personal medical data. Drug companies now purchase drug sales information in order to identify and persecute potential new clients for their competing drugs. The new administration is forcing its intelligence agency to follow the political will.

These examples are not as disconnected as you might think. They all flow from our digital revolution. Examples such as these give every well-read, thinking consumer much to worry about. It is not paranoia, but self-preservation that drives us. With so much personal data available in electronic form and so readily available, the last place we wish to be measured, dissected, analyzed, direct-promoted or supervised is in our dens or our bedrooms.

It is a pity. Your company had an original, useful, and cost-effective idea. But your new direction is one that I cannot support. You have lost me as a consumer, and from what I read on several popular bulletin boards, many others forever.

I am aware of the pending legislation that seems to attack the very foundation of what TiVo used to stand for. That is, to prevent products like yours from skipping advertising at all. That is yet another assault on our senses, our ability to control what private information leaks out, and who is able to use it for commercial purposes.

The result of your company’s new enhancements, together with increased governmental control will lead to a very unpleasant and for some, surprising result. People will simply stop watching TV. Too many other and better choices will arise.

With regret, an almost customer,

[Caution]

45. I know you mean well here

but that article is about as misleading as it gets. This is not some big brother attempt to force you to watch commercials from Tivo. Additionally they have *always* tracked user behavior. Today as before this tracking is completely anonymous, they just aggregate the data, and also today as before you can opt out of this by making a single phone call to tivo.

I agree with you regarding the govt portion of this but tivo is forcing nothing on their customers here. While fast-forwarding there will be a banner which pops up that if you are interested you can hit "thumbs-up" and you will automatically be registered to receive info from the company. Today there is no overlay over teh commercials as you fast forward through them but you can still actually see the commercial. This is much ado about nothing.

[Lorien]

29. Same here

that was the entire allure of TiVo. I gave one to my dad two years ago, and he loves it because he hates commercials.If that fuction is gone, then you may as well go back to a less costly VCR!

[Renew Deal]

42. It doesn't look like it's losing that function.

I guess they will pop up an ad during commercials. It could be good or bad. We'll see.

[bunkerbuster1]

60. TiVo? what's that?

They are officially dead to me, now.

[Cronus Protagonist]

74. Me too

Looks like it's going exactly the way I thought it would right from the get go. I was wondering how long it would take to turn a useful appliance into a spy machine - now we know.

Show your support for the president, wear a FUCK BUSH button!

http://brainbuttons.com/home.asp?stashid=13

(We usually ship same or next business day by first class mail. Orders over $25 will get a free multi-media CD)

[lil-petunia]

3. Big brother is here. How long for the gov't to use that technology

for its purposes?

Praise to big brother.

[jayfish]

4. I'm Glad I Stopped Using Mine. -NT-

Jay

[Tiberius]

21. that's too bad

Tivo is just simply the greatest technology since the printing press. It takes a vapid, endless sea of bland content on a once-promising medium and turns it into a searchable, indexable library of commercial-free shows.

Not only do I never watch commercials anymore, but I never miss a Frontline, for example. TV really is educational and and quite intellectually stimulating once you give your Tivo control over it.

[jayfish]

23. Yeah, I Used To Love It.

But since I've stopped, I just don't feel like I'm missing anything. I watch 1 TV show and some sports. I haven't watched TV news since 11/2. My TiVo used to get a huge workout from that.

Jay

[Caution]

46. Call tivo and opt out of the tracking

not that it isnt already anonymous or anything (which it is, they just aggregate the data with no names or household information attached).

[shoelace414]

5. you can still FF through ads Accoriding to the article

[sui generis]

6. I don't care who sees what I watch

just so long as I can fast forward through the ads. The second they stop that I will personally crap on my Tivo and mail it back to them FedEx overnight for maximum freshness.

I say the damndest things before I've had coffee.

I'll be right back.

[Lilli]

8. LMAO

[alittlelark]

33. Too funny, but don't use Fed EX - they're a repuke co.

[seafey]

7. Are they going to pay us to keep a TiVo in our house then?

Seems if we're going to be subjects of market research, we should get paid for it, not the other way around.

[nashville_brook]

24. comcast merge

i bet they merge with a cable provider like comcast and offer the box as the basic package. they can't charge for invasion of privacy. but a cable provider could offer the service as a value-add.

[seaglass]

31. Comcast already offers DVRs in some markets. n/t

[Unstuck In Time]

34. Bingo. That market research is worth major $$$

TiVo ought to give the thing to consumers for free, no?

:D (This is me not holding my breath)

[restorefreedom]

9. I guess I'll stick with old faithful....

the VCR/DVD recorder is fine with me. I don't like people spying on my every move.

Besides, today it's advertisers. Tomorrow, government minions.

[Caution]

10. Folks...you can OPT OUT of the tracking

it's simple. make one phone call and your tivo will not be tracked.

The other piece of this is also not nearly as intrusive as this article makes it out to be. While fastforwarding through the current commercials there you still see bits of them (just like when fast forwarding a VCR) now there will be an overlay allowing you to press a button which will send you more info on a product if you are interested in it. The viewer experience is really no different (and no i don't work for tivo...but i do think it is the single best consumer electronics product put out in the past 5 years).

Additionally, tivo now has a deal in place with nielson. If you want your voice as a viewer to be heard you are actually better not opting out of the tracking. First off the tracking is anonymously aggregated. Your name is never associated with the viewing data, AND more importantly, you can have an impact on the actual ratings of shows. Imagine a world with no more "reality tv" or Fox News ratings dropping like a stone?

This article about tivo has been written a hundred times before and the only new information is the ability to opt into advertising while fast forwarding but once again we are spoon fed something from the media that makes the world seem insidious.

[Sterling]

15. What about DVR systems, can you opt out of tracking on those?

I am sure if TIVO tracks so does Time Warner and you damn sure know the Brownshirts at Cox are tracking your every viewing of TDSWJS and reporting you to homeland security.

[lil-petunia]

16. Only in this generation of product and before Congress is done

Just wait. It can only get worse.

[Caution]

17. actually this has been the case since the first generation tivo's

which i purchased many years ago. Seriously, anyone who tells you tivo is big brother doesnt know anything about the company. They have a dedicated forum where customers interact directly with the developers and marketing group and they have been extremely responsive to our needs as a group. As somoeone who works in software development and has for over a decade I can say this is pretty rare in any industry and exceedingly rare in the consumer electronics industry.

As for congress...well it's hardly fair to blame tivo for the problems that republican controlled government creates.

[Pithlet]

50. It's too late

Clear Channel Owns XM! is already burned into the collective DU concience, and no amount of saying otherwise seems to change that. Now it will be TiVo Will No Longer Let You Zip Through Commercials!

But, that's okay. I'll continue to enjoy the hell out of my TiVo. I actually watch a lot less television because of it for one thing, and being able to skip commercials is fabulous. I'm still firmly in the Cult of Tivo :)

[Caution]

54. yep it really looks that way

i wish people would read through a thread.

[bemildred]

12. Yet another reason to stop watching TV.

(Besides the moronic content.)

[B3Nut]

20. Kill Your Television :D

www.turnoffyourtv.com

A good hi-fi system, piles of 99-cent vinyl records from Goodwill, and a nice cold beer, and I'm a happy camper. :)

Don't literally kill your TV though, they are useful for watching DVD movies. Other than CSI on Thursdays via rabbit ears, we don't really watch TV at all...nothing on, and the "news" is all predigested brainwash, so why waste the electricity? ;)

Todd in Beerbratistan

[Chimpanzee]

36. As soon as I saw 'Beerbratistan' I knew you were from my

neck of the woods - McFarland/Madison...

[EarlG]

18. This is why I got a ReplayTV instead of a TiVo

I was dubious about TiVo's approach towards skipping advertising, now I'm glad I went with ReplayTV instead. Plus ReplayTV plugs directly into your home network and you can easily download shows onto your computer's hard drive using a piece of third-party software called DVArchive. You can also swap the hard drive out of a Replay TV and replace it with a larger one, just like you would with your home computer.

I'd heartily recommend ReplayTV as an alternative to TiVo.

[w4rma]

22. Proof that competition within markets is better a monopoly. (nt)

[arwalden]

28. ReplayTV Here Too. -- Very Easy To Upgrade Hard Drives...

yourself (if you can follow instructions). Also, I really like being able to copy ReplyTV shows directly to my hard drive and burn them onto DVD or VCD (depending)... and I can edit out the commercials before burning them to the disc.

My original Panasonic Showstopper was bought as a 20-hour capacity drive... I've upgraded it to 80 hours. My 5000-series machine was purchased as a 60-hour capacity drive, but I haven't upgraded it. Don't know if I will or not, since 60 hours seems to be working fine.

-- Allen

[NYCGirl]

49. TiVos are very easy to upgrade, too. Up to 700 hours!

http://www.weaknees.com/

[GinaMaria]

75. buying one for my husband's birthday

He did the research and went with Replay over Tivo. I'm so glad.

[Sialia]

19. DVRs without Tivo

You can buy digital video recorders without Tivo. We have one and love it. You do have to learn to program it yourself but you have the peace of mind of knowing that it doesn't send your private information to some company. Panasonic and Pioneer make them, and also Samsung I believe. Some can record to both hard disk and DVD-RAM. Be careful since some of these manufacturers offer models with and without Tivo.

In fact, I am thinking of buying another one this weekend, with a larger hard drive, because of the bill currently under consideration that would ban the technology to skip through commercials.

[Eurobabe]

63. Dump TiVO and go with Adelphia DVR, costs $3/mo

I love it! Many cable companies are getting wise to this and offering upgrades.

[reprobate]

25. Alternatives: Use Dish network or build your own "tivo".

My dish network 921 reciever is also a digital video recorder, which is just what tivo is. It takes whatever the reciever is recieving on either of two tuners, and records it digitaly, not on tape, but on a hard disk. That's all that tivo does. And it doesn't report anything about your viewing habits. I don't know about direct tv but assume it's the same.

There is nothing exclusive anymore about tivo, except for their name recognition. You can now buy a number of multimedia pcs that do the same things and more. Remembe that tivo is nothing but a pc in sheeps clothing with some targeted software.

Or build your own. The only difference between your pc and one that serves as a dvr is what's called a 'tv tuner card', made by several mfgs, and the software that goes with it. If you've ever changed a card in your pc you can build a dvr. In fact, some of the new tv tuner cards even have the ability to recieve and display hi definition tv, which to me was an amazing revelation just how high a quality the tv picture can really be.

The software will even go online automatically and download the program schedule for your area and use it to set your recordings.

So don't be bound by what the commercial interests want you to buy. There really are alternatives.

[NashVegas]

37. Regarding TV Tuner Cards - Perhaps You Missed This?

http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=04/11/16/0518234

Pointing to Assistant Professor of Law Susan Crawford's blog, iman1003 writes "The FCC has filed a brief where it claims regulatory power over all instrumentalities, facilities, and apparatus 'associated with the overall circuit of messages sent and received' via all interstate radio and wire communication according to a blog published by Susan Crawford. The blog can be found here and the brief here (in PDF format). Kind of scary if you ask me." Ars Technica has good commentary on this, also referencing Crawford's findings.

check the thread.

What I love most about TiVo, in order:

No tapes to change.
It fetches listings up to two weeks in advance and I can program accordingly, easily, with the 'wish lists.'
Skipping commercials.

ie, the commercial skipping is a fringe benefit I enjoy but it's not everything. But the fact that our government is preparing to make it illegal (search my thread from yesterday in LBN on the subject) is fucked beyond recognition.

[trogdor]

59. I bought a nVidia TV card.

It's good at being a DVR device, the software that came with it is pretty good, but it caused my PC to do odd things, like not completely shut down when you want it to. Also, when editing a sound file, the PC would crash as if I ran out of memory or something. Upping my RAM from 512 MB to 1 GB didn't help.

I might try to use the card in another box dedicated to ONLY DVR functions, but it pisses me off that I spent over a hundred bucks on something that buggy.

My advice: Go with an ATI All-In-One. I heard they're better.

[Tree Hugger]

27. Tivo user here

You can opt out of any market research they are doing! I cannot stress that enough. I have had many opportunities to opt in or out.

Personally, I don't mind them paying attention to what I watch. It's anonymous, and it may give my favorite shows that little extra bit of ratings to keep them on the air. Or perhaps that's just wishful thinking.

I could not live without my Tivo though. Especially during campaign season. I can't go a day without Jon Stewart coming to me in my living room.

[Lex]

38. Yep. I make sure I Tivo Jon Stewart & Keith Olbermann

and other shows I really like to put the information out there that these shows are being watched.

Anyone who uses one of those grocery store "discount cards" is getting everything they buy to eat tracked and they are being marketed to as well.

[NYCGirl]

51. Those two are in my season passes, too!

:-)

[Zorra]

30. TV is what the fascists used to steal our country. Cancel your cable.

Kill your television.

[Lex]

40. The people consuming the propaganda aren't going to stop watching

just because I stop watching.

I'd rather be aware of what is being consumed by the masses, than spend my time being oblivious to it.

[Zorra]

65. You are giving them your money and supporting them. A business

cannot survive if it does not have enough customers to profit from and thereby cover its overhead. The more people that cancel their cable, the more possibility of driving these people out of business and starting alternative programming.

I already know what is being consumed by the masses without having to watch it and pay for my own destruction at the same time.

Thread in GD about being cable news free:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=2708576&mesg_id=2708576

[sfwriter]

39. We dropped 90% of our cable and banished our TV...

after the election. Saves us about $100 a month. We also moved everything, DVD, VCR, TiVO, to a smaller 20" set in the bedroom and carried our large TV out to the garage from teh living room.

I've been looking into Freevo and Knoppix. There is a Morphix build that may make trying it out a painless experience. If you have a recent PC with video inputs, it is worth a google. You could have a free Tivo experience.

Also, buy your HDTV components now before they are crippled with the broadcast flag. That gets activated next year I think. After that, you won't be able to control your broadcast content.

-Sandy

[NashVegas]

41. After Reading the Full Article, We May Be Overreacting Here

I think the article headline is easily misinterpretable.

"TiVo Will No Longer Skip Past Advertisers"

Read the full article and you can see it refers not to the commercials themselves as the clients. ie, TiVo is offering some bones to advertisers to make custom ads that may appeal more to viewers.

There's nothing in the article that states TiVo is going to override the 30-second skip function (which is not an official function in the first place, it's an easter egg).

[VolcanoJen]

47. I'm a recovering Tivo addict.

I got my first Tivo in 2001, and the modem finally died a few days ago. Instead of buying another Tivo, I decided to go with the cable company's DVR. It was a tough decision, giving up the Tivo. I still think the Tivo interface is superior, but the DVR is only $2 a month, as opposed to Tivo's $12.95, and I didn't have to shell out any money for hardware.

Also, the Time Warner DVR has an 80-hour hard drive, picture-in-picture, and lets me record two programs at the same time.

Sayonara, Tivo.

[Pithlet]

52. TiVo is superior to the others

You're right about the interface. We switched from TiVo to a Replay that came with our cable, and we hated it. The interface sucks, and you don't have nearly the options you do with TiVo. We ditched it and went back to TiVo.

[Lex]

57. When we got Tivo, we bought the lifetime service package

so we wouldn't have a monthly fee to pay ever.

So far we haven't had a moment's trouble with Tivo. We've had it several years now--I love all options Tivo gives.

[VolcanoJen]

62. Tivo is also superior when it comes to searching and wishlists.

My cable company DVR doesn't let me do anything like that. If I'm searching for a program, it only lets you do it by the first letter, meaning you spend forever scrolling down. It's stupid.

I also miss the thumbs-up feature... the one that pops on your screen during an ad for an upcoming program... one click and it's set up to record.

Hmmm... the more I think about it, maybe I'll end up going back to Tivo after all. Breaking up is hard to do!!

[Pithlet]

67. lol

See, I knew I could lure you back into our fold. :)

[Emboldened Chimp]

53. The message is clear: turn off your fucking TVs...

Not only is it an utter waste of time, but it's becoming an invasion of privacy. Turn it off and keep it off...except for baseball. :evilgrin:

[AndyTiedye]

55. Myth-TV is a Free, Open-Source Alternative

Myth-TV does everything TIVO does, EXCEPT track your viewing,
charge subscription fees, stop you from copying your recordings
and make you watch commercials.

You can also run one server where your antenna or cable comes in
and connect to it from anywhere in the house that has network access.

It runs on Linux, but you can download a CD image that is
self-contained and boots up directly into mythtv
if you don't want to install Linux yourself.
The client side is also being ported to the Mac.

http://www.mythtv.org

[Caution]

58. this is a very cool project granted

however tivo doesnt track your viewing it tracks aggregate viewing which you can opt out of, with tivotogo you will be able to copy your recordings and the new enhancement listed here doesnt force you to watch commercials either.

[EST]

70. I think somebody stuck a rag in your bell...

Can't blame this bunch, though, after the bs about bbv and all the "don't look behind the curtain or at what my hands a re doing" promises made by Diebold et al and the bfee. Shell shock, or whatever you call it.

[Caution]

71. amazing isn't it?

It's all about the headlines and never the actual details. And this is why John Kerry didnt win overwhelmingly. No one cares abtou details. They just want the 6 words.

[KenCarson]

56. most tv is junk anyway

...

[librechik]

64. Boycott Tivo!

BTW, with a good video card and a little computer knowledge, a viewer can do what Tivo does on his own home computer. My son has a system set up to do it now; he saves The Daily Show for me!

[dkofos]

66. Just don't connect it to a phone line.

All the info gathered is sent back via modem.
No connection no data.

:evilgrin: :evilgrin: :evilgrin:

[Caution]

68. wont work. call tivo and opt out

you need the phone connection to get TV programming data

[Tiberius]

73. not with directv tivo

Haven't had mine connected to a phone line for 158 days.

[AtTheEndOfTheDay]

69. Doesn't a VCR do just about the same thing?

Recording favorite shows and viewing without ads is easy enough and nothing new. Nobody snooping into your life either

[Angry Girl]

77. Using VCR for years! We never watch "live" TV

And, really, guys, aren't we being a bit naive here?

The lifeblood of America is *consumerism*.

There was no way in hell Tivo was ever going to cut out commercials.

Angry Girl
nightweed.com