Big Dig Leaks Even More Widespread

[Tab]

BOSTON - Leaks in the Big Dig highway tunnel system are more widespread than state officials have acknowledged, and top construction managers had warned as far back as 1998 about problems that could cause failures in tunnel waterproofing, the Boston Globe reported Wednesday.

Earlier this month, independent engineers hired by the state to investigate a huge September leak in the Interstate 93 tunnel said the $14.6 billion Big Dig tunnels, which sit almost entirely within the salty water table underlying downtown Boston, were riddled with more than 400 leaks. Project managers and state officials have insisted that the tunnels are safe for motorists.

Now, documents obtained by The Boston Globe show there are nearly 700 leaks in a single 1,000-foot section of the I-93 tunnels beneath the South Station train terminal.

And records show that since early 2001 project managers have collectively signed off on at least $10 million in cost overruns to repair leaks and water damage in the costliest highway project in U.S. history.
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=519&ncid=519&e=2&u=/ap/20041117/ap_on_re_us/big_dig_leaks

[liberal N proud]

1. the tunnels are safe for motorists

Until the leaks become a flood, filling the tunnels

[Kagemusha]

2. $10 million+ for this?

That's what, loose change?

[joelogan]

3. Rightwing propaganda machine is using this as an example

....of how anything funded through public funds is doomed.

[NashVegas]

17. Just One Problem

the war profiteers Bechtel were the Big Dig diggers, IIRC.

[Tree Hugger]

4. Any Boston-ites here?

I worked with a student from Boston during the Kerry campaign, and she said the Big Dig was just seen as a joke in the city. Anyone from Beantown have a comment on this whole thing?

[Warpy]

5. I left just as it was beginning.

Anything that took down the elevated Central Artery has got to be an improvement. That road was not only an eyesore that chopped neighborhoods in half, it was the single scariest driving experience in the western hemisphere.

It was already a bit of a joke, with the local news people wondering what was going to happen to the 10 million or so displaced rats during the construction and giving recipes on air.

The real joke is what was going to be on top of it after it was finished, a meandering park. Of course, it's all been sold to corporations for retail and office space. We knew that was going to happen, though.

That it leaks like a sieve is no surprise, either. I guess since the budget didn't extend to waterproofing, it will have to be applied to sump pumps.

[Atlant]

15. The budget did extend to waterproofing, it just didn't work.

> I guess since the budget didn't extend to waterproofing,
> it will have to be applied to sump pumps.

The budget did extend to waterproofing, it just didn't work. The
first attempt was a membrane applied to parts of the exterior of
the tunnel (which I suppose must have been like rubber rolled roofing);
this didn't work. So they switch to sprayed-on waterproofing for most
of the job (which also didn't work).

Now, dog only knows what they'll do,but it's almost certain to be
piecemeal, only partially effective, and require lots of maintenance
in the out years.

The joke is that everyone knew the tunnels were leaking but nobody
was willing to 'fess up; during the big freeze last year, the entire
I-93 tunnel became an ice palace with the tunnel walls absolutely
lined with huge icicles, ice floes, and a glacier or two; this
didn't all come from condensing car exhaust!

Atlant

[Tab]

7. Almost

I live about 2 hours away, though I'm not a resident.

This thing has been going on for years. The cost overruns are incredible. I don't remember the original estimate but I think it was something like $6 billion and the project came in at $14 billion. It has also dragged on over time.

Now that it's "finished", it has made getting around some parts of Boston much better - although Boston can still be a nightmare to get through (and it's damned easy to get lost if you don't know the city - I sure don't). While it was going on, it really made commuting hell. Of course, what they were trying to achieve wasn't going to be easy anyway. Unlike NYC, which is laid out in a grid (excepting the village), Boston more resembles a plate of spaghetti, and lots of one-way streets at that.

I don't know if the project was considered a joke, but the ever-increasing cost and time overruns might have been sort of a running source of entertainment ("Oh, another $2 billion? Imagine that").

I guess in a project of that scope there's bound to be all sorts unexpected problems, and I recall some big union issue that jacked up the cost, but you'd think of all things, they would have at least focused the engineering on avoiding leaks, since it goes under a goddamned river.

[Tiberius]

10. People here love to complain

... and they miss the big picture. I'm a huge supporter of the Big Dig; I live a few minutes west of town. An airport ride for me, for example, has gone from about 45 minutes to 12 minutes.

People complain about how traffic is still a mess (the tunnel can't make rush hour commuters go away) how it costs too much (the feds paid most of the bill) and on and on. It's easier to bitch than it is to add up the lost time and wasted fuel and actually do some reasonable math-- not to mention how much nicer the city is without a giant green hulking highway going right through the middle of it.

And the space over it hasn't been sold to retailers-- some has, but the current plan is still for a lot of green space. It's the best thing to ever happen to Boston.

[midnight armadillo]

13. The Big Dig is a colossal mistake

For $15 billion there could have been a complete reworking of all the transportation systems in eastern MA. Instead they've shaved 15 min off of the I-93 commute. This will last for what, 10 years, and then there'll be more gridlock. Whoopee.

[Tiberius]

16. It's much more than that

With 93 more open it eases congestion on other local roads. With less traffic, pollution is reduced, time is saved, not to mention we'll have a much nicer and more livable city.

Everyone forgets also that the old highway was falling apart anyway-- it was built in the 50s and was never designed to handle that much traffic. That thing was grotesque.

And the Big Dig will last at least 30 years, not 10.

[Atlant]

21. Yes, but traffic will overwhelm it in far less time.

> And the Big Dig will last at least 30 years, not 10.

Yes, but traffic will overwhelm it in far less time. To turn to another
recent highway project (the Route 3 North widening that was just
completed), there, they estimate that the highway will be *AT CAPACITY*
by 2013 or '14.

The long-term solution to traffic *IS NOT* to build more highway;
the solution to traffic is to get people to not drive so much,
or at least to not drive with one person per SUV.

Atlant

[Atlant]

19. There's almost no doubt that this was money not spent "most wisely".

> Anyone from Beantown have a comment on this whole thing?

Parts of the Big Dig work, parts of it don't, but there's almost no
doubt that this was $14.6 billion that was not spent "most wisely".

Yes, the Ted Williams Tunnel has made the ride from the western burbs
to Logan Airport a very easy ride, but that was just a portion of the
work that was done. With regard to I-93, things so far (with some
improvements left to be completed) aren't much better than they were
on the old Fitzgerald Expressway; the traffic is just hidden out of
sight underground. Every evening, my bus used to take about 15-20
minutes to get from South Station to the Charles River. Now, thanks
to the Big Dig, it takes 10-25 minutes. Inbound, we've seen some
improvement, but you could have achieved the same result by removing
the cop that used to block the lane at Dock Square and adding a
traffic "meter".

The money could have been spent far more wisely by building up other
infrastructure outside the city. For example, the Red, Orange, and
Blue subway lines could have been extended out to Route 128 and
massive parking garages built there. Or for practically no money
at all (in Big Dig terms), the I-93 carpool lanes could have been
extended much farther out and carpool lanes added to I-90 (the
Mass Pike).

But America likes to build highways, even stupidly useless highways.
So highway was what we got.

Atlant

[Tree Hugger]

22. What's the solution?

How do we get people to take mass transit instead of driving?

[Atlant]

23. "Traffic" is actually a self-limiting phenomenon.

> How do we get people to take mass transit instead of driving?

"Traffic" is actually a self-limiting phenomenon. If it took you
2 hours by car to get to Boston, versus 45 minutes to drive to (say)
Lexington *AND* jump on the Red Line to your final destination, you'd
be a fool to drive all the way in.

Therefore, we should allow traffic to remain painful, but build
alternatives. As I mentioned, enhancing the carpool arrangements
and adding busses would have been (comparitively) dirt cheap.
Building out the rail lines would probably have been comparably
expensive, but facilitated the traffic flow throughout the entire
"inside 128" region. Building the Big Dig was almost solely
cosmetic, and a make-work program.

Atlant

[ret5hd]

6. Charge $5.00 per vehicle and call it a...

car wash...

put a guy with a chamois at the end of the tunnel.

[meisje]

8. Awwwww just bring a snorkle

whiners:)

[yellowcanine]

9. I have to think of the movie "The Dream Team" where Michael Keaton trys

to freak out his fellow mental patients by talking about the possibility of the tiles in the tunnel breaking off and allowing the water to come gushing into the tunnel. And then the character who thinks he is Jesus saying "I will hold back the water". Priceless.

[wicket]

11. Thanks for nothing Bechtel!!!

Assholes!!! :grr: :grr: :grr:

[Tab]

12. Right

Shoulda hired Halliburton

[wicket]

18. yeah that would've been so much better!

heh :)

[MallRat]

14. Let's not forget who oversaw the Big Dig, from start to finish.

Massachusetts Governors during the Big Dig Era:

William Weld (R): 1991-1997
Paul Cellucci (R): 1997-2001
Jane Swift (R): 2001-2003
Mitt Romney (R): 2003-present

Hmmm.

-MR

[Atlant]

20. Swift seems to be denying it in her LTTE to the "Globe" today.

She's using the "I'm Republican; I don't take blame" defense.

Atlant

[mindfulNJ]

24. I mis-read your post

I thought it said "Big DOG leaks Even More Widespread"...:D