Man With Pot Given Choice: Jail or Military

[Sequoia]

SALINAS, Calif. (AP) -- A Salinas man will have to choose between going to jail or joining the military as his punishment for possession of marijuana.

A judge surprised both the prosecution and defense yesterday when he told Brian Barr that he could avoid a jail term by enlisting in the military.

The 24-year-old Barr was charged with marijuana possession after shooting a would-be robber who had entered his apartment with two others.

<snip>

http://www.kron.com/Global/story.asp?S=2579902

[tk2kewl]

send the fucking judge to Iraq!

Asshole

[NVMojo]

87. that judge is one twisted bastard!

[Jack_Dawson]

1. WTF???

This country is getting scary.

[HEIL PRESIDENT GOD]

50. Getting?

This has been going on since before World War I.

[Az_lefty]

2. Just like Nam...Jail or Military...

[TahitiNut]

38. Hitting your target while stoned was a common skill in 'Nam.

Drunks, however, were better off disarmed.

[saigon68]

93. Hey BEEN THERE

As an NCO I can tell you I used to hate to lead these "WILLING" enlistees.

None of them were motivated to be there

The common phrase was-- "what are you going to do send me to Viet-Nam" ?

There was a lot of drug abuse too, as the pot heads found a much more POWERFUL brand of dope to smoke, incuding rock heroin.

The military as much as I loath what it has become lately, isn't in the business of drug rehad or making fine citizens out of pot smokers.

I sure as hell would not want the helicopter I was riding in, maintained by this fool. Or, be in charge of "supervising" this pot smoker as he attempted to maintain said helicopter.

[dflprincess]

66. My friend's brother got that choice.

He was busted with something like two joints on him back in 1970. Sad thing was, he got caught in rural Minnesota where the judge still took this sort of thing seriously (in Minneapolis or St. Paul the judge probably would have wondered why his time was being wasted on this amount of grass.)

So, he picked the army, went to Vietnam, was wounded and had both physcial and mental problems the rest of his life. He died three years ago from an infection he picked up while in the VA hospital.

I'd advise this guy to pick jail.

[Sugarbleus]

91. Yep, I remember that....

I heard much the same story on KGO radio this evening 11/18/04..

I only caught part of it but some fellow called in to tell a story about a guy in another state who was busted over an "Ecstacy" possession. The guy had NO other convictions whatsoever for anything.

The judge gave him the same choice: Jail or military. The radio host was flummoxed and so am I. The jail time for this arrestee was to be ENORMOUS too, not just a quickie stand in the joint!

WTF, is going on!!!??

[nadinbrzezinski]

3. It's official

The drug policy in the military no longer exists

And this is THE THIRD WICKET for a draft

Man I don't want to be here... get me get high and piss on a cup

YOu mean that will not get me thrown out? OH man!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Warpy]

23. Go to your draft physical with a VERY understanding friend

and make out in line.

[alfredo]

77. Study Satanism well enough to speak about it at length.

Wear one of those yellow contacts like Marilyn Manson. A torn blood soaked shirt, bright red lipstick a thong, and leather chaps will complete the look.

don't forget the whip.

[d_b]

4. Prison.

[lastliberalintexas]

7. Seconded.

[Mandate My Ass]

5. finally, the death penalty for a pot smoker

The mask has come off.

[Walt Starr]

6. It's like Deja Vu all over again!

They did the same shit in 'Nam.

[amber dog democrat]

13. yeah but back then you had to be moral

if you were going to burn down villages and kill people.
Now it does not seem to matter.

guess that is an improvement.

[David Zephyr]

39. Yes, They Did, Walt.

Three very dear friends of mine staged a protest against the war in Viet Nam at their high school in Texas. One was bullied into going to jail for trespassing on private property (a public school) or join the army. He had dropped out of school just months before so he was the one punished.

He wound up in Viet Nam and survived his "tour", but came back a completely different person moving to Louisiana and we've lost touch with him ever since.

[PhuLoi]

49. I had a guy in my platoon who had killed his girfriend's father.

The judge (Alabama) told him "if you like to kill, you're going to Nam or prison, your choice." Seems like old times.

[JudyM]

100. Seems like that would risk endangering other soldiers

If the guy can't control rage, they want to put him in stressful circumstances with folks who are 'capticely' serving the country? Weird.

[libpunkmom]

54. Just like Dad

This is exactly how my dad ended up in Nam!!!!

[GHOSTDANCER]

80. Damn.....

My dad said he was high his whole tour.

[libpunkmom]

103. Yeah

Dad said that most everyone he knew pretty much stayed high their tours as well. Dad served for 3 tours.. Needless to say, I had a real interesting childhood...

[madmax]

82. I remember that, Walt.

Jail or serve.

[Magic_Cookie]

8. Wnnder how many others have been given this choice

or will be given this choice & we just won't hear about it.

[KurtNYC]

9. This guy fought off 3 robbers while stoned?

Who was he? Scarface?

[medeak]

28. amazing

dude has a future...

[Inland]

10. The interesting part: Everyone assumes the military will take him.

[Journeyman]

35. When I entered the service back in ’73. . .

one of the guys with me answered the recruiter truthfully that he had, in fact, used marijuana once or twice. I believed the guy. . . he was the kind of fellow you figured probably didn't inhale and definitely didn't use it beyond the "experimenting" phase.

About a week after we arrived for basic, he and two other guys were pulled into the squad room, made to certifiy that they had not lied on their enlistment papers, and were then given general discharges for prior drug use -- behavior the military knew about before they ever accepted them!

Now this dumb schlub has to go through life with a general discharge because he was stupid enough to be honest. And those officer weenies continue to have the audacity to tout their "code of honor."

This is one of the reasons why, as a veteran (especially as a veteran), I recognize that respect and support for our troops is a complicated issue with many hues of grey and should never be given as a blanket condition.

[Lizzie Borden]

11. They used to do this all the time

during the Vietnam war.

[Judi Lynn]

12. Isn't this remarkable, having the judges serve as recruitment sources?

We'll probably be seeing a LOT more "guilty" verdicts from now on, with full approval from whatever it is in the White House.

[struggle4progress]

41. Ah, the real purpose of anti-marijuana laws ... eom

[liberal N proud]

14. Lets see, Death in Iraq or Soap on a Rope behind bars.

I'll take the soap please.
Not being gay that still is not a tough decision.

[Amaya]

15. Huh?

This is truly scary and truly fucked up :grr:

Ya know, Canada is lookin' good these days.

[lessthanjake]

16. Possession of marijuana should be LEGAL

Who is the government to tell me what i can do with my own body?

[Dogmudgeon]

18. You need to register your body as a corporation

That way, they won't touch you in a million years.

--bkl

[Barrett808]

20. Would that work? I might seriously consider it. n/t

[Dogmudgeon]

17. I thought this was stopped by the Military itself

My father was a chief and a recruiter for the Army. He didn't like the policy one bit -- too many naughty little boys in men's bodies. He said that an edict was issued forbidding the practice.

On the other hand, nobody seems to be too quick to keep people informed about this kind of thing anymore.

--bkl

[colonel odis]

19. join the military, then after boot camp tell 'em you're gay.

odds are, his getting thrown out won't get back to the judge.

then hightail it for canada in the off chance it does.

[Barrett808]

22. I read recently that the "gay dodge" doesn't work any more n/t

[Sterling]

48. I can't see how it would not if you refused to stay in the closet

they can't take you period. Now smiking dope they may be more willing to slide since they are despirate but no way they can let open gays in now.

The whole war is about a crusade agianst things the fundies think are evil like gays and muslims.

[jmowreader]

97. They'd just put you in General Gaylord's Homosexual Division

I figure that if they get too many people claiming to be gay, they'll reflag the current 42nd Infantry Division, which is a National Guard unit, to another historic unit's designation, create an all-gay division and flag that the 42nd Infantry Division. It's got to be the 42nd because the 42nd's patch is a rainbow.

Then they'll underequip the division, not issue it any training ammo nor body armor, and send it on one suicide mission after another.

The only problem with this plan: what if the new, all-gay 42nd Infantry Division fights really well and becomes the heroes of this war?

[LoneDriver]

21. Common during Vietnam and soon common again

As this idea spreads from here and as the whole system gears up to provide meat for the grinder.

[PunkyPower]

29. This is not uncommon at all

In 2002 I joined the Army Reserve (don't ask me why,lol, ~_~ I had my stupid reasons; wanted college money, wanted to impress family in some form since I had f*'d up so many situations for myself, but let's just say Don't Ask Don't Tell and some "midnight encounters" in the barracks initiated a hasty discharge) and went to Basic Training at Fort Jackson.

I'd say out of a platoon of 40 there were about 6-7 guys there who took the army over jail/prison time, mostly minorities, from larger cities, (Chicago,NYC). I think this is one of the things that happens more often than people think, it just isn't widely talked about. Also at the reserve station I was going through orientation at, there were some people in my unit who had relatives who'd been through the same situation.

[JSJ]

95. it has always been a reliable source for 'enlistees'- ALWAYS!

[WI_DEM]

24. what about a third choice? a treatment program.

what's with this prison or military crap?

[Zhade]

92. A treatment program? For pot?

Please, there's no need for treatment.

[Freddie Stubbs]

102. There is for some people

Just like alcohol, most people can handle pot. But there are a few people who let it become a problem. I know at least two people that have had to Narcotics Anon to get help. One of them was spending $600 a month on it. It almost cost him his marriage.

[hughee99]

25. Where are the "Pro-Choice" advocates?

The judge could have given him "X" months in jail and left it at that. Now, he's offering the man a choice, "X" months in jail OR join the military. The judge hasn't taken anything away from the man, and given him an extra option... where's the problem?

[daleo]

81. It is a Hobson's choice

I have full faith that these judges would make the offer between a long sentence for the crime, or the military. Recruitment needs will color their sense of justice or fair play.

If this catches on, police enforcement might also follow. Police may be more interested in arrests with recruitment potential than good public policing. Besides, if a behavior is worthy of being called a crime it should be treated that way. Serving in the military ought to be a privilege, not a sentence. Although, as long a Bush wars are going on it seems to be becoming both a crime and a sentence.

[Sanity Claws]

26. Our all-volunteer army

My stomach turns whenever I hear the phrase "all volunteer army." People join up because they are too poor to pay for college. This poor guy is being forced to go because he takes a puff once in a while.
I think the judge should be reported to the committee on judicial ethics. His action is reprehensible.

[bin.dare]

27. Black and Tans in Ireland

assuming this is just the beginning, and that many more crimes will fit the punishment ....

In Ireland, post the 1916 uprising, the british formed a quasi-military group called the Black and Tans (because of the colour of their uniforms) recruited from the british prison system. Some of the worst atrocities in Ireland were perpetrated by these goons. With 2.2 million people in american prisons, why ever consider a draft?

BTW, in some bars in america a "Half and Half" (half Guinness and half Bass) is referred to as a "black and tan", this is an insult to the irish. :beer:

[ilovenicepeople]

68. 2.2 million in prison?

I have heard that it is over 7 million now.Buy the way, I wonder if the people that broke into this guys home got charged?

[bin.dare]

73. over 6 million "in the judicial system"

that includes parole, community service, etc etc. to the best of my knowledge, it is 2.2 million incarcerated. At $50,000 a head that means a $100 Billion incarceration industry. Do you think these people could start a sideline as headhunters for the military?

[Must_B_Free]

69. Yuengling makes a beer called Black and Tan

[muriel_volestrangler]

72. Not necessarily an insult

According to this page, Guinness themselves refer to a 'Black and Tan' in there promotional literature; and the original reference is to an Irish hound, older than the drink or militia.

[bin.dare]

104. ask Guinness if ...

they market "Black and Tan" in Ireland

[clown]

88. companies market black and tans

companies market black and tans, it's their stout and their lager mixed (although I think Yuengling might use a porter), well I only know of a few, McSorley's, Yuengling (as someone mentioned below) and Saranac, but I would imagine other companies market them too

[MsMagnificent]

107. This part of the US uses Guiness & Harp

There is little nicer than a well-poured Half & Half!

mmmmmmmmmm :D

Anyhow, wouldn't that be coerced or forced conscription?
Isn't that illegal? (Send the judges family!)

Another great step towards the draft!

[Javaman]

30. Folks, don't act so damn appalled, they have been doing this for years...

First time offenders, depending on the plea bargain or who the judge is, this kind of offer is made. They have been doing this for about 200 years.

[signmike]

33. My dad - WW2

My dad was in prison at San Quentin from '36 until we got into the war -- prisoners were offered a chance to get out of their hard time if they went into the war. He wound up in Germany, attached to Patton's office as a teletype repairman -- and he lived, and here I am.

[PsN2Wind]

43. Interesting story about your dad

I met a guy in '64 that was being court-martialed and discharged from the Army. The kind of soldier the Army loved for war-time duty but couldn't handle in peacetime. Genuine hero, Silver Star and a bushel of other medals from our government and other nations in WWII.
After the "Big One" and his discharge, he and some buddies robbed an illegal gambling joint in San Francisco, during the fray someone from the joint was killed. So the guy ends up in San Quentin where he remained a hard case, spending much time in the hole. When Korea ginned up, he was offered release to the Army, which he took and was again a hero in the Korean War. He decided after Korea to stay in the Army but peacetime garrison duty bored him so he would on occasion go "over the hill". After a few times of this the Army had enough and kicked him out.

[signmike]

62. Rambo

Or Tim McVeigh.

There were guys I was with that joined the Navy to see the world and be real sailors - but were stuck on a tub for 4 years that never left the dock. They couldn't get a transfer, not even to Viet Nam, so they did all sorts of crazy stuff to get kicked out. Only one of them made it.

[intheflow]

31. This was the option given to my ex in the early 1970's.

Jail or the military.

Or, as he put it, the choice to be buggered or the choice to be blown up.

(BTW, he took the military option, Vietnam ended the day he enlisted, and he spent his time welding in Alaska. Don't think our guy in this story will be so lucky.)

[Twillig]

32. Rather a thosand times the county jail...

From Edgar Lee Masters' Spoon River Anthology


KNOWLT HOHEIMER
I was the first fruits of the battle of Missionary Ridge.
When I felt the bullet enter my heart
I wished I had stayed at home and gone to jail
For stealing the hogs of Curl Trenary,
Instead of running away and joining the army.
Rather a thousand times the county jail
Than to lie under this marble figure with wings,
And the granite pedestal
Bearing the words, "Pro Patria."
What do they mean, anyway?

[Blue_Tires]

34. my dad said judges gave that choice back in the 60s

but the military eventually stopped doing it because so many of these inductees ended up being bad, undisciplined soldiers. You send a violent psychopath, a petty thief, or a druggie to 'Nam, and you know how they are going to end up.

[AtTheEndOfTheDay]

71. My buddy and I joined the Army in '80

Me for my reasons, he because he was given the above choice. They hadn't stopped at that time for sure.

[Klapaucius]

86. Judge offering choices.....

I went to boot, then my A-school and another school after that. One of the folks in my secondary school class had been given that offer by a judge, that was in 87-88...

He ended up not cutting it in the secondary school, and being put on mandatory study hours. He couldn't make the hours, so he started faking the study log of his hours, got caught for it, and tossed out of the program.

I am not surprised at all that it's still happening.

K.

[saigon68]

99. See my post above

The fraggings in Nam in my opinion were caused by these people. I saw some real criminals in the military. A few killers who loved to kill. I think a lot of them killed when they came back.

At one time there were a lot of "veterans" in prison.

[Bragi]

36. My suggestion

Take the military option, then leave for Canada. That way he'd get the pot without jail or the military.

[Lucille]

37. Got in a little hometown jam

Got in a little hometown jam
So they put a rifle in my hand
Sent me off to a foreign land
To go and kill the yellow man

Born in the U.S.A.
I was born in the U.S.A.
I was born in the U.S.A.
I was born in the U.S.A.
Born in the U.S.A.

[onenote]

40. it used to be that the pot in the military was pretty good n/t

[carolinalady]

79. that's what hubby said when he did his 4 years in the 80's....

:7

[0rganism]

42. The War on Drugs becomes one with the War on Terror

Look for a federal crackdown on marijuana posession to fuel pre-draft conscription.

[neuvocat]

44. JOIN THE AIR FORCE!!!

If the guy wants to stay out of jail and stay alive he shouldn't stop by the Army or Marine recruiters.

[stanwyck]

45. How to legalize pot

reinstitute the draft and then find out there are so many kids out there with pot convictions that you don't have enough troops. Or, kids who want to dodge will make sure they get a pot conviction. The sooner the better. So...the conservatives will finally decide they'd better legalize pot. Either that or lose out on protecting their oil interests overseas.
We get attacked again. The Repubs institute the draft. Pot convictions become no worse than Dubya and Cheney's DUIs. All the moralizing of the right will vanish when Halliburton needs their free security force.

[miss_kitty]

46. Jail. I'd take jail

fucking War on Drugs.

[David__77]

47. He should say he's GAY.

Then, if he cannot join the military because of declaring this, he could easily get this judgement thrown out on the basis of California's excellent anti-discrimination laws.

[JudyM]

101. Clever! Too bad * wasn't sentenced to the military.

[HEIL PRESIDENT GOD]

51. The demographic that went to Vietnam is in prison now

Young, urban minority youth... I have a strong feeling the "draft" will be a flurry of parole offers in exchange for service.

[alexisfree]

52. HE should FIRE his LAWYER>>>> Mistrial

[Fovea]

53. That would be jail, your Honor...

I may be high, but I have never been that high.

[alexisfree]

55. when he returns to court " judge will tell him you got punked"

[0007]

56. Just like the 50's and the 60's, eh?

[jwirr]

57. In the 1950s that was the way

as most law breakers who were not killers were given this choice. It was one way to get them out of the area and it was also believed that it would help them by teaching them discipline. Unfortunately now they probably won't live long enough to learn discipline in Iraq. Cannon fodder.

[AspenRose]

58. I would love to know what Gary Johnson thinks about this

Former NM governor, republican, and PRO-drug legalization (so much so the libertarians have been courting him for years).

He is very much pro-treatment instead of jail time for drug offenders.

Will he ever dare to speak out against the neocon cabal? Hmmm

[Skink]

61. Some future

If this was in Florida he could go to war and them come back and have lost the right to vote. Shot at and scrubbed.

[MSgt213]

59. He might be already disqualified. Military won't take him on judges order

He has to have clean pee at the physical and there is a period he will have to have been free of drugs and he will need character references and a waiver from higher headquarters and they might even consider him as being on a form of probation meaning he can't ship to bootcamp. If he joins the National Guard rules are more lacked. But good luck becoming a Marine, Airman Sailor or Soldier.

[TexasLady]

60. same thing happened to my nephew

except not quite as bad an offense. Also,since he was a minor and his dad and the judge came up with the nifty idea of joining the guard after high school.
Hes still in iraq with his bro and dad. can anyone guess how much i like my BIL?:mad:

[AlFrankenFan]

63. Jail

I never thought I'd say this. My family has a military tradition...and since this war I have thought less and less of the military...I gave up "dreams" of joining a year ago (when I was 13) and I'd much prefer to go to jail then to endure what Bush puts our troops through, that can't get out everyday. But then again...I don't even think druggies should be jailed unless they harm someone...but that's a different story.

[indepat]

64. Spending $30-50,000 annually to incarcerate a pot possesser is such fine

public policy and such fine use of limited resources.

[Judi Lynn]

89. These limited resources are funneled to our thriving prison industry

which contributes heavily to Republicans. The _Bushesare close to George Wackenhut who has contributed vast amounts to all three _Bushes.

From one entry of over 12,000 entries for "Wackenhut + Bush" in Google, an excerpt from an article written several years ago:

"Corrections has spawned its own self-perpetuating interest groups with
consultants, lobbyists, burgeoning state bureaucracies and a rising private
corrections industry. Like any special interest group, the correctional
industry is in business to keep its empire growing."

Slave labour

Again, this warning has come true with a vengeance under Governor Bush.
Just listen to Senator Phil Gramm (R-Texas), a close crony of Bush. He has
proposed turning prisons into industrial parks.

"I want them to make prisoners work 10 hours a day, six days a week. I want
to enter into contracts with major manufacturers so that we can produce
component parts in prisons ... now being produced in places like Mexico,
China, Taiwan and Korea. We can defray about half the cost of keeping
people in prison."

The savings, $22,000 annually per prisoner, could be used to build more
prisons and train more prison guards, Gramm said. He also proposed doubling
the number of graduates of the FBI Academy to oversee this prison boom.
(snip/...)

http://www.cpa.org.au/garchve3/1025pris.html

Prisoners will be useful either stateside or fed into the military in order to spare Republicans the backlash a normal draft would bring as they will need increasing numbers for their utterly fraudulent and barbaric wars.

[alfredo]

65. The threat of jail will be used more often to swell our military

ranks. They are now looking at SS files to find who hasn't signed up for the draft. They are going to give them an option, join the military, or go to jail.

[ozarklib]

67. I'd rather go to jail.

You meet a better class of people.

[Catchawave]

70. Yep, this is a very common practice....

There's alot of pressure on recruiters making "quotas" so deals are made with the local authorities all the time. Mostly in small, poor communities that lack the bushdaddies to bail 'em out.

[Name removed]

74. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Zorra]

75. Jail for a possession charge vs. the probability of having to kill

innocent people for Bu$h is a no brainer. n/t

[hollowdweller]

76. The real sick part of this story was that the guy was defending his

home from robbers and the fucking police busted him! Where were his 4th amendment rights? Man we need to legalize! But forget that with the moral majority in the White House.

[MADem]

78. Unless they have changed the recruiting requirements

...this kid may have a hard time being ACCEPTED by the military. Possession is at least a high-level "waiverable" offense, but according to the newspaper, he was not simply a possessor of the substance: Police say Barr sold marijuana from his home, and that the three men were searching for money and marijuana.

If distribution is indicated in the police report, the recruiting command has to turn him away--unless, of course, they have quietly changed the regs.

Hell, murder used to be a disqualifier, too. You could get a juvenile or young offender manslaughter conviction (drunk driving kid kills passenger friend in car accident, for example) waived, but it took months to process, a high AFQT score, good school grades, no other offenses, and references.

This would be a great subject for an article by one of those forward-thinking journos...unfortunately, there aren't too many of them out there anymore.

[Endangered Specie]

83. Hmmm... Death or Ungabunga?

[Cronus Protagonist]

84. Choose the military and fail basic training

Problem solved.


Show your support for the president, wear a FUCK BUSH button!

http://brainbuttons.com/home.asp?stashid=13

(We usually ship same or next business day by first class mail. Orders over $25 will get a free multi-media CD)

[jmowreader]

98. They won't let him fail basic training

He might get recycled five times, but eventually he will pass basic training even if the drill sergeant finally just gives him a Skilcraft Test.

(A Skilcraft Test is named after the pen the Army uses--the Skilcraft, made by the National Institutes for the Blind. You take a Skilcraft Test when the drill sergeant finally gets pissed off at not being able to train you or kick you out, takes out a blank form and his trusty Skilcraft, and writes a passing score on the form. In civilian life it's called "pencil-whipping.")

[CHICKEN CAPITOL USA]

85. choose the military-Go AWOL- one day be president

[sr_pacifica]

90. How bad can jail be? n/t

[barb162]

106. that was my thought...has to be better than Fallujah fighting

[JSJ]

94. and this is how the us military became an army of criminals

Of course, using cannabis should not be a jailable or finable offense. Yet, the same choice is very often given to real criminals. And, real criminals- murderers, rapists, assaulters, defrauders, etc- will always take their chances with the 'dumbfuckers club', ie. the US Armed Forces.

[JSJ]

96. kick

[Debbi801]

105. Ok, this really truly frightens me....

Is this how shrub is going to avoid re-instituting the draft?

What's next, raiding the mental hospitals and enlisting them, too?

Debbi