A Quick Reaction - Noam Chomsky - Sept.12, 2001

[illbill]

http://www.realopinion.com/realboards/showthread.php?p=1713

Chomsky's comments right after the 9/11 attacks.... very interesting.

http://www.realopinion.com/realboards/showthread.php?p=1713

[yurbud]

1. Chomsky is so right it's scary

You couldn't come up with a hypothetical presidency better than Bush's to validate what Chomsky has been writing for decades.

Our foreign policy and military serves big business primarily and these grand designs for hegemony as a function of that.

[theresistance]

2. I got ripped on another thread

for trying to back up Chomsky...look out illbill...

[illbill]

3. I am a rock...

:)

[Name removed]

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[PaulaFarrell]

5. well, I think first Noam was trying to point out how the actions

of the United States can lead to hatred of us. The bombing of the Sudanese factory isn't unrelated. It was a heavy-handed, misdirected American response to an act of terrorism (also widely seen throughout the world as an attempt to distract from the Lewisnky affair) - Bush has repeated the same type of reaction, only in a far more heavy-handed, misdirected way. It is always ordinary, and especially poor, people who suffer - as far as I'm aware, this factory has never been replaced, and people are still dying from lack of very basic medicines. Seeing your family and friends suffer because of this type of action inevitably leads to resentment, hatred and in the end, rebellion - or terrorism.

Noam does propose an action - trying to understand what's lead us to this point. I don't see how that's doing nothing. You cannot fix a problem without understanding the cause. I think Noam does understand and could probably suggest lots of actions if he wanted - but no one would listen if they didn't also understand (without trying to justify) what brought 911 about. As long as there is no attempt to understand, then the reaction will be what it has been - an arrogant attempt to subdue the rest of the world for daring to strike at the US.

[theresistance]

9. The Sudan attack was also totally wrong

The so-called evidence relied upon turned out bogus as the chemical found is used in the production of pesticides. NewScientist magazine also pointed out that the US could have gone down the legal path of requiring an inspection under the Chemical Weapons convention (or whatever its called). If Sudan refused, then they would look guilty...

[Name removed]

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[Name removed]

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[PaulaFarrell]

25. maybe obvious to you but not to others

how many ordinary people actually followed his advice ? Practically none - most were /are too intent on revenge or payback or something that would make them feel 'safe'- still after more than 3 years. I don't care if Noam doesn't try to prescribe a set of actions; asking the right questions, and, yes, criticising past actions, is just as important. I personally don't think comentators, pundits, philosophers - whatever you want to call them - are there to tell us what to do. They're there to inform and to get us thinking for ourselves. It's up to politicians to figure out what to do, and why shouldn't they be criticised if they get it wrong? It's their job. If Noam Chomsky was a politician who didn't have a clue what to do, then I'd agree you have a point. Anyway, I'm not sure how he'd ever be held 'accountyable' on any case - what commentator ever is?

By the way, what is this 'list' you mention?

[slothrop]

7. has no one word about what we should do

I wonder why this poster seems to believe it is Chomsky's duty to tell us what to do? This is the second time I have seen this from this poster. Perhaps as a linguist, it is not his duty to tell people what to do, and perhaps refraining from telling people what to do is a good thing and not a thing to criticize.

[Bridget Burke]

8. Some people really need to be told what to do!

Rather than accepting ideas from several sources & making their own decisions, they want orders.

[LibertyorDeath]

16. Freepers need to be told what to think and do.

They are bereft of insight & critical thinking skills it is
part of the Rightardedness they suffer from.

[theresistance]

10. Well said...

[Name removed]

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[Martin Eden]

14. Talk about misdirection!

You take a discussion about whether Chomsky should offer solutions, and divert it to a worthless and ridiculous comparison with Rush Limbaugh.

You tend to employ bait-and-switch logic -- rather than delve into the merits of the discussion at hand you offer an analogy -- and a poor one at that.

I thought Chomsky's September 12 observations were, on the whole, quite prescient. Also, he did offer the essential first step of any solution -- understand your enemy.

Given the benefit of hindsight, what is your solution as to what should have been done after 9/11?

[Name removed]

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[LibertyorDeath]

17. " Any criticism only aids the enemy"

:)

Did you come up with that all by yourself.

"my two cents is that we lost the War on Terrorism at Tora Bora when we used proxies to do our work."

You do realize that is a criticism & you are aiding the enemy by second guessing the American Military. There may be very sound and reasons why
America used Proxies at Tora Bora who are you to judge.

Give me a fucking break criticism especially in a time of War is what Democracy is all about.

You need some new talking points. IMO

" Any criticism only aids the enemy" You can take this freeper Shit and

go.

[Name removed]

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[LibertyorDeath]

19. This is Freeper thinking 101 as taught by the Rightarded

Do you stand by this.

" Any criticism only aids the enemy"



Democracy is all about questioning those in authority
it is the Patriotic thing to do hold elected officials accountable.

At all times including War. You brought up Tora Bora I was using it to make a point.

That being that this is freeper talk " Any criticism only aids the enemy"

[Name removed]

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[Martin Eden]

21. The art of citizenship

is to be informed, stand up for what is right, and hold our leaders accountable at all times -- whether at the beginning or end of a presidential term.

Go ahead and let Bush fail you say ... as if the entire nation didn't have a stake in what happens (the logic being that we have no influence over what Bush does anyway).

I've got news for you: Silence is acceptance, aquiescense, and essentially approval. If we didn't voice our opposition to Bush's policies (by "we" I'm referring to scores of millions who voted against Bush) then he would be even more empowered to implement the bloody neocon agenda.

When my country is being led astray and its honor sullied by the likes of Bush and his gang, all engaged citizens should stand up and protest. At least we can let the rest of the world know that not everyone in the United States is marching lockstep with the neofascists in the White House and Pentagon.

[Name removed]

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[Martin Eden]

23. false choices

Street protests aren't the only form of effective opposition.

Rove ran a smarter campaign than Kerry (that doesn't make "them" politically smarter than "me").

You can't have a Democrat in the White House or majorities in Congress by failing to mount an opposition; you can't have an effective opposition without a credible foreign policy; and to articulate that foreign policy requires criticism of Bush's policy.

It is not politically smart to "just shut up."

Where the smarts come in is in how you get your message across.

[d_b]

24. "Any criticism only aids the enemy"

:wtf:

[PaulaFarrell]

26. actually, the allies 'passed' on Iraq because it was illegal,

immoral, wrong, and just plain stupid. and they don't trust bush.

But, actually, it seems you're just like Noam after all. Here you are criticising past actions (I mean Tora Bora was years ago) without offering a solution. How very cynical of you.

[RedCloud]

6. i wonder if it is because Noam betrayed his flock?

He doesn't support Israel.

Now will we kindly get the info on the 6,000,000 killed by Hitler et alia? How many were Zionists and how many were Dry Branches? What were those ratios before the Holocaust and after?
Times a'ticking...