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rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-26-05 04:46 AM
Original message
Gonzalas hearings





http://slate.msn.com/id/2112684/

Summary article of Today's news;


......Editorials in both the Post and NYT urge senators to vote down Alberto Gonzales' nomination for attorney general. The WP has the meatier take. After noting that Gonzales was "vague, unresponsive and misleading" during his hearing, the paper says he was much clearer in his followup written responses:

According to President Bush's closest legal adviser, this administration continues to assert its right to indefinitely hold foreigners in secret locations without any legal process; to deny them access to the International Red Cross; to transport them to countries where torture is practiced; and to subject them to treatment that is "cruel, inhumane or degrading," even though such abuse is banned by an international treaty that the United States has ratified. In effect, Mr. Gonzales has confirmed that the Bush administration is violating human rights as a matter of policy.

Flashback to the NYT two weeks ago: "GONZALES SPEAKS AGAINST TORTURE DURING HEARING.".......

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gottaB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-26-05 05:00 AM
Response to Original message
1. A Degrading Policy
ALBERTO R. GONZALES was vague, unresponsive and misleading in his testimony to the Senate Judiciary Committee about the Bush administration's detention of foreign prisoners. In his written answers to questions from the committee, prepared in anticipation of today's vote on his nomination as attorney general, Mr. Gonzales was clearer -- disturbingly so, as it turns out. According to President Bush's closest legal adviser, this administration continues to assert its right to indefinitely hold foreigners in secret locations without any legal process; to deny them access to the International Red Cross; to transport them to countries where torture is practiced; and to subject them to treatment that is "cruel, inhumane or degrading," even though such abuse is banned by an international treaty that the United States has ratified. In effect, Mr. Gonzales has confirmed that the Bush administration is violating human rights as a matter of policy.

Mr. Gonzales stated at his hearing that he and Mr. Bush oppose "torture and abuse." But his written testimony to the committee makes clear that "abuse" is, in fact, permissible -- provided that it is practiced by the Central Intelligence Agency on foreigners held outside the United States. The Convention Against Torture, which the United States ratified in 1994, prohibits not only torture but "cruel, inhumane or degrading treatment." The Senate defined such treatment as abuse that would violate the Fifth, Eighth or 14th amendments to the Constitution -- a standard that the Bush administration formally accepted in 2003.

But Mr. Gonzales revealed that during his tenure as White House counsel, the administration twisted this straightforward standard to make it possible for the CIA to subject detainees to such practices as sensory deprivation, mock execution and simulated drowning. The constitutional amendments, he told the committee, technically do not apply to foreigners held abroad; therefore, in the administration's view the torture treaty does not bind intelligence interrogators operating on foreign soil. "The Department of Justice has concluded," he wrote, that "there is no legal prohibition under the Convention Against Torture on cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment with respect to aliens overseas."

According to most legal experts, this is a gross distortion of the law. The Senate cited the constitutional amendments in ratifying the treaty precisely to set a clear standard that could be applied to foreigners. Nevertheless, Mr. Gonzales uses this false loophole to justify practices that contravene fundamental American standards. He was asked if there were any legal prohibition against U.S. personnel using simulated drowning and mock executions as well as sleep deprivation, dogs to inspire fear, hooding, forced nudity, the forced injection of mood-altering drugs and the threat of sending a detainee to another country for torture, among other abuses. He answered: "Some might . . . be permissible in certain circumstances."

A Degrading Policy....
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roenyc Donating Member (824 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-26-05 06:17 AM
Response to Original message
2. Cspan at 930 am
Call-In
Prisoner Abuse Allegations
C-SPAN, Washington Journal
Washington, District of Columbia (United States)
ID: 185249 - 5 - 01/26/2005 - 0:30 - No Sale

Romero, Anthony, Executive Director, American Civil Liberties Union
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realFedUp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-26-05 08:26 AM
Response to Reply #2
3. Prisoners in the US or other countries?
or both?
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jbfam4 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-26-05 05:55 PM
Response to Original message
4. so torture is OK
if we don't do it in the United states. This administration really takes the moral high ground, don't they?
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