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Seymour Hersh: "We've Been Taken Over by a Cult" (DemNow!)

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struggle4progress Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-27-05 12:07 AM
Original message
Seymour Hersh: "We've Been Taken Over by a Cult" (DemNow!)
<snip> There's a lot of anxiety inside the -- you know, our professional military and our intelligence people. Many of them respect the Constitution and the Bill of Rights as much as anybody here, and individual freedom. So, they do -- there's a tremendous sense of fear. These are punitive people. One of the ways -- one of the things that you could say is, the amazing thing is we are been taken over basically by a cult, eight or nine neo-conservatives have somehow grabbed the government. Just how and why and how they did it so efficiently, will have to wait for much later historians and better documentation than we have now, but they managed to overcome the bureaucracy and the Congress, and the press, with the greatest of ease. It does say something about how fragile our Democracy is. You do have to wonder what a Democracy is when it comes down to a few men in the Pentagon and a few men in the White House having their way. What they have done is neutralize the C.I.A. because there were people there inside -- the real goal of what Goss has done was not attack the operational people, but the intelligence people. There were people -- serious senior analysts who disagree with the White House, with Cheney, basically, that's what I mean by White House, and Rumsfeld on a lot of issues, as somebody said, the goal in the last month has been to separate the apostates from the true believers. That's what's happening. The real target has been diminish the agency. I'm writing about all of this soon, so I don't want to overdo it, but there's been a tremendous sea change in the government. A concentration of power.

On the other hand, the facts -- there are some facts. We cant win this war. We can do what he's doing. We can bomb them into the stone ages. Here's the other horrifying, sort of spectacular fact that we don't really appreciate. Since we installed our puppet government, this man, Allawi, who was a member of the Mukabarat, the secret police of Saddam, long before he became a critic, and is basically Saddam-lite. Before we installed him, since we have installed him on June 28, July, August, September, October, November, every month, one thing happened: the number of sorties, bombing raids by one plane, and the number of tonnage dropped has grown exponentially each month. We are systematically bombing that country. There are no embedded journalists at Doha, the Air Force base I think were operating out of. No embedded journalists at the aircraft carrier, Harry Truman. That's the aircraft carrier that I think is doing many of the operational fights. Theres no air defense, It's simply a turkey shoot. They come and hit what they want. We know nothing. We don't ask. We're not told. We know nothing about the extent of bombing. So if they're going to carry out an election and if they're going to succeed, bombing is going to be key to it, which means that what happened in Fallujah, essentially Iraq -- some of you remember Vietnam -- Iraq is being turn into a free-fire zone right in front of us. Hit everything, kill everything. I have a friend in the Air Force, a Colonel, who had the awful task of being an urban bombing planner, planning urban bombing, to make urban bombing be as unobtrusive as possible. I think it was three weeks ago today, three weeks ago Sunday after Fallujah I called him at home. I'm one of the people -- I don't call people at work. I call them at home, and he has one of those caller I.D.s, and he picked up the phone and he said, Welcome to Stalingrad. We know what we're doing. This is deliberate. It's being done. They're not telling us. They're not talking about it. <snip>

http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=05/01/26/1450204

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Dover Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-27-05 12:15 AM
Response to Original message
1. So what are the Democrats' excuse?... they just confirmed Condi Rice
Edited on Thu Jan-27-05 12:18 AM by Dover
and barely batted an eye when our election was stolen, signed on for the Iraq War with an obvious madman at the helm....

What are Dems anyway......koolaid moms?
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Imagevision Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-27-05 12:20 AM
Response to Reply #1
3. Elections coming in 2006...no wave making pleeze!
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98geoduck Donating Member (590 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-27-05 12:39 AM
Response to Reply #1
4. ditto... far too many dems on the DARK side
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Demeter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-27-05 09:29 AM
Response to Reply #1
15. 30 Traitors by My Count Voted for that Evil Woman
and we have to get the good Doctor in to clean house, impose some party discipline, and train up a generation of Democrats with SPINES.
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Imagevision Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-27-05 12:19 AM
Response to Original message
2. Cult? Dictatorship -- it's business, and the business is OIL
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stillcool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-27-05 12:51 AM
Response to Original message
5. From his lips to Gods ears...
This is getting...there are no words.
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98geoduck Donating Member (590 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-27-05 12:59 AM
Response to Original message
6. This is an AWSOME piece, MUST SEE!!!
called poiticians Cowards!!! Fighting citizens in Iraq!!! Four more of the same OUCH!!!

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fearnobush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-27-05 01:03 AM
Response to Original message
7. Scary stuff.
"Europe is not going to tolerate us much longer. The rage there is enormous. I'm talking about our old-fashioned allies. We could see something there, collective action against us. Certainly, nobody -- it's going to be an awful lot of dancing on our graves as the dollar goes bad and everybody stops buying our bonds, our credit -- our -- we're spending $2 billion a day to float the debt, and one of these days, the Japanese and the Russians, everybody is going to start buying oil in Euros instead of dollars. We're going to see enormous panic here. But he could get through that. That will be another year, and the damage hes going to do between then and now is enormous. Were going to have some very bad months ahead."
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98geoduck Donating Member (590 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-27-05 01:19 AM
Response to Reply #7
8. This is REAL SCARY STUFF!
I don't have any stocks to sell, and don't have money to buy real estate in Italy.
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MHalblaub Donating Member (153 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-27-05 04:18 AM
Response to Reply #7
12. Why buy oil in Euros?
It's cheaper to buy oil in Dollars!
Just some sheiks will grumble:)
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NotYourPresident Donating Member (5 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-27-05 01:59 AM
Response to Original message
9. The problem is that those in power have been taken over...
but the people, yes, the PEOPLE can still make a difference if they are made to understand. Depspite what people are saying about the lunacy and idiocy of this country voting for Bush, it is important to remember that this country did NOT VOTE for the agenda of this administration. It did not. There is a very, very good column at WiserBlog.com analyzing this:

From " Seeing red... for what it is".

"While I concede that one hating, baiting brainwashed zealot is one too many, I want to address this idea that we are being overrun by such people or that they, being channeled by George Bush (much as God himself is), have a mandate. This suggestion that the entire county—save for a handful of people huddled on either coast—actively support the naked Neocon Bush agenda is propaganda.

Indeed, most of the country doesn’t even know what that agenda is and it isn't because they are stupid. I am not saying that a whole lot of people are not woefully ignorant and unengaged in the governing of their country (to the extent that they are still allowed to be). But Bush and Co. hide their true agenda well and we would be wise to address this instead of falling into yet another one of their traps by increasing our contempt for the "red states."

It will the Rove Team's greatest coup to date if they manage to not only steal this election, but also then successfully frame the narrative of the outcome and what it means that they have “won.” Of course, they didn't--the election was stolen. More evidence of this amasses daily, but I don’t have to convince you of this to make my point about the "support" that Bush enjoys." SNIP

You should read the whole thing at www.wiserblog.com. It's the second column from the top.

The "average American," yes, even a fair number of NASCAR Dads would be horrified to know what is really going on in this country. They need to be told. I don't understand how people think they can afford to either write them off or continue to NOT differentiate between bigots and pigs and war mongers and people who just don't have the time or inclination to sort through all of the sh*t that gets force fed to them by the mainstream (not the right wing) media. There many such people and they are definitely NOT on board.
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bluestateboomer Donating Member (313 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-27-05 02:37 AM
Response to Original message
10. This is so disgusting. n/t
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ClayZ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-27-05 03:02 AM
Response to Reply #10
11. Ah, a good man doing something!
"The only thing necessary for evil to flourish is for good men to do
nothing."
-- Edmund Burke
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rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-27-05 05:25 AM
Response to Reply #11
13. "These are punitive people."-the neocons ~~Way to go Sy~~
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harper Donating Member (699 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-27-05 08:04 AM
Response to Original message
14. Thanks for posting this article
I've e-mailed the link to several friends. Seymore Hersh is the reason I subscribed to the New Yorker. Maybe the last real journalist out there.
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susu369 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-27-05 09:57 AM
Response to Original message
16. Important read
Personally, I have printed it out to share with others. Yes, it is a very sobering read.

:kick:
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Puglover Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-27-05 10:21 AM
Response to Original message
17. I just printed it out and
gave it to a bunch of people at work. Christ how depressing. On all fronts.
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lady lib Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-27-05 12:39 PM
Response to Original message
18. Should we be selling our stocks?
Anybody here an investment expert or know one? I seriously want to know. Thanks.
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98geoduck Donating Member (590 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-27-05 05:28 PM
Response to Reply #18
20. I'm not an expert, but...
I've had discussions with a Wall Street broker a couple of years ago, and at the time, he advised to invest in foreign currency (Euro), and not to invest in US stock (the Euro was at .90 vs 1.30 at present). I work on a professional level (scientist), and all are preparing for the worse...ie not crying chicken little. Besides Hersh, Krugman is also stating things are not looking too bright. With the odds the way they are, it would be foolish to be gambling on this market in my opinion. Bottom line, if you got money to lose keep it in, otherwise, pull it and wait for another opportunity. Of course, these are Only my Opinions, I just feel obliged to let another "lib" know what I've heard.
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lady lib Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-27-05 07:30 PM
Response to Reply #20
22. Thanks **sigh!**
Looks like I better start looking into this a little more closely.
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priller Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-27-05 12:59 PM
Response to Original message
19. "The Cult" would not be in charge without the assent of Congress
The Pukes (and some Dems) are enabling all this. The neocons didn't simply take over, they were put there by the GOP administration. And there are plenty of people in this country who are a-okay with Bush bombing those damn ragheads to hell. They think that's the solution.
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TexasLawyer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-27-05 05:52 PM
Response to Original message
21. Big Kick
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Donailin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-27-05 07:33 PM
Response to Reply #21
23. and another kick
this article has me shaken. It really crystallizes what we're up against.
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TexasLawyer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 01:14 PM
Response to Reply #21
24. One more kick
This is a very important interview
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Dover Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-28-05 06:14 PM
Response to Original message
25. Link to Hersh's New Yorker article:
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