The Mounting Protests, By William F. Buckley Jr. (Yahoo news)

[jazzjunkysue]

The Mounting Protests

By William F. Buckley Jr.
http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ucwb/20050618/cm_ucwb/themountingprotests

It's correct that there is political commotion mounting in opposition to the Iraq war. It is important to distinguish between two kinds. One, which is gaining attention, centers on misrepresentations. The so-called Downing Street Memo is cited. This records an exchange at 10 Downing St. on July 23, 2002, at which, it is said, the representatives of Mr. Bush made it clear that the president had resolved to proceed against Iraq irrespective of what the United Nations might do.
(snip)
Last week a conservative dissenter submitted an analysis to his colleagues. Several points were made.

(snip)
"The second goal has been to bring such order to Iraq as is required to effect the self-government the voters had endorsed. This objective has failed."
(snip)
"No developments in the first half year of 2005 warrant confidence that these goals are being met, or even that they are predictable.
(snip)
It can't reasonably be disputed that if in the year ahead the situation in Iraq continues about as it has done in the past year, we will have suffered more than another 500 soldiers killed. Where there had been skepticism about our venture, there will then be contempt.

[babsbunny]

1. Don't forget to vote

at the end of the story.

[annabanana]

2. Pretty soon there will be no one supporting the cabal..

but the very innermost circle, turning and spitting...
(and turning on a spit, I hope)

[Skittles]

11. that does not absolve a lot of them

the bush whores all have blood on their hands - lots of it

[MichiganVote]

3. There already exists contempt--on all sides

[UTUSN]

4. Is WmB-Asshole STILL Defending NIXON? (& Every Repuke A-hole)???

[UTUSN]

5. Oh, & Why Is Wm.B.Jr - BREAKING "news"?????????/ n/t

[jazzjunkysue]

6. Because he's influential, and he's calling it a slam dunk for peace.

There's no bigger news, than when an old arch conservative gives the rank and file GOP permission to reject this war and it's child king.

The rats are jumping ship. Many people were afraid to hope for this. CNN just did a whole piece on getting out of Iraq, with Jaffey leading the mutiny.

I'm getting my country back. That's all the news I want.

[UTUSN]

7. Oh. I Thought He Was Dead. n/t

[rodeodance]

8. He makes an excellant point about Bush steadfastness vs pride (mis-

application of. He is right on!!!!


......A respect for the power of the United States is engendered by our success in engagements in which we take part. A point is reached when tenacity conveys not steadfastness of purpose but misapplication of pride.

[rodeodance]

9. This is great--Buckley speaking out.

[geckosfeet]

14. getting out of Iraq is the administrations way of getting out of

impeachment. They are throwing the dogs a bone and letting them fight over it. Buckley is simply the messenger. Do not think for a minute that he has changed his stripes or has anything in mind other than salvaging this administration from its own screw ups.


snip
A respect for the power of the United States is engendered by our success in engagements in which we take part. A point is reached when tenacity conveys not steadfastness of purpose but misapplication of pride.
snip

edit: Emphasis mine. Same old chicken hawk master and slave mentality. These people fail to realize that the real success is avoiding war.

[newswolf56]

10. This may be the real turning point...

...in the war, and -- just as Buckley's alienation from the BushCo line makes clear -- the pivotal issue is not whether Bush lied (which is increasingly moot), but whether the traditional foreign-policy incompetence of the United States (think: Vietnam; Cambodia; Cuba; China) has again not only condemned our soldiers to a pointless meatgrinder war but made us an international laughing stock as well.

Being reasonably well versed in history, I side with Sen. Lieberman in his adamant belief the threat of Jihadist Islam is real, a threat not only to Western Civilization but to the great civilizations of the Orient as well. But the Bush Administration's curiously paradoxical handling of it -- surely motivated in part by the Grover Norquist scheme to build an alliance of Christian Fundamentalists and Muslims on the basis of the common Yehvehistic hatred for any interpretations of American liberty that include women's rights, gay rights, etc. -- has been nothing better than abysmal. (For more information on this BushCo scheme, Google "grover norquist", "christian-muslim alliance", "christian-islamic alliance", and variants thereof.)

For a clearer look at the clash itself, take the question of "threat" out of its misleading "Muslim-Christian" context and look at what 900 years of Islamic aggression did to the Vedic states of India: it left the entire region in such ruin that, by the 1700s, a tiny band of mercenaries who called themselves the East India Company were able to conquer the entire subcontinent for the British Empire.

Nor is Western Christianity the real issue lurking behind renewed Islamic militance. Remember that Western Civilization starts not with the Cross but three thousand years earlier -- with the Standing Stone (and the goddess-centered civilizations so symbolized). And note that Jihadist Islam's rage against the West escalates precisely as the West resurrects the indescribably ancient notion of the divine as female -- a spiritual "revolution in consciousness" specifically mirrored in the political revolutions of feminism and environmentalism. These developments have profound implications for the future relationship of the West with an increasingly Fundamentalist-dominated Islamic world.

But -- just as we blew it in Asia (by driving democratic revolutionaries into the Communist camp and by driving indigenous Communists into the arms of the Soviets), just as we blew it in Cuba, just as is horrifically described in the 1958 novel The Ugly American (which is again a must read for those who would understand what happened in Iraq) -- it is obvious we have blown it in Iraq too.

And -- just as I would eventually conclude about Vietnam -- covering up our government's infinite folly and outrageous ineptitude is not worth a single American soldier's life.

[thebigidea]

13. great civilizations of the "Orient?" What, is this suddenly the 1500s?

[newswolf56]

17. India, China, Korea, Japan, Southeast Asia...

...all have civilizations at least as old (if not older) than ours. Their indigenous spiritualities are Hindu (India); Buddhist/Taoist/Confucian (China, Korea, Southeast Asia); and Buddhist/Taoist/Shinto (Japan).

Islam -- which will not tolerate any other form of religious expression (note in this context the destruction of the Afghan Buddhas) -- has relentlessly attacked these civilizations ever since it began the eastward phase of its aggression about 900 years ago.
The attacks (which continue today in Thailand, Malaysia, China, on the Indian subcontinent, and probably in other locales of which I'm unaware) are motivated entirely by religious hatred of "the infidel" -- non-Muslims.

The fact that American ethnocentricism and xenophobic ignorance so often lead to belittlement of the Orient's ancient civilizations does not alter the fact of those civilizations' greatness -- nor (even under presumably atheistic Communism) their vital place in the modern world.

Just as Christianity and capitalism have irrevocably altered the originally Pagan culture of the West, so has Communism irrevocably changed the Buddhist/Taoist cultures of the East. But the cultures live on: Paganism within (and now again increasingly apart from) Christianity; the influence of Buddhism, Taoism and Confucianism increasingly again evident in China. Buddhism is said to be resurgent also in Vietnam. "Changed" is seldom the same thing as "eliminated." Hence the term "great civilizations" still very much applies.

[CTyankee]

18. I think thebigidea was questioning

your use of the word Orient. I too found it almost quaint. More commonly now we say Asian instead. However, I found your analysis very intriguing. May I ask if you are a historian or a teacher?

[newswolf56]

20. Because we speak of the clash between...

..."Islam and Western Civilization" or "Islam and Occidental Civilization," it seemed to me more accurately descriptive to write in parallel fashion of "Oriental civilizations."

However, another inaccuracy did creep into my post: my usage implies that Confucianism is a form of spirituality, when in fact (though undoubtedly Taoist-influenced) it is closer to what we in the West call ethics.

As you surmised, much of my academic background is in history; I am primarily a writer -- mostly a journalist -- though I have also been a part-time instructor in a couple of colleges. A lot of my interest in Asia and respect for its cultural traditions grew out the time I spent in Korea during the early 1960s, this as part of my military service.

[CTyankee]

22. There is a book on Orientalism

entitled just that, by Edward Said. I have not read it but I understand it outlines the history of "Orientalism" in England and the U.S. (to alesser extent). Is "orient" a made up word of England and the U.S.? If so, is "occidentalism" also made up? Just curious.

[newswolf56]

23. Both terms come from Latin. According to...

...my dictionary of word origins, "orient" comes from the Latin "oriri," "arise," (as in where the sun arises). It passed into English from Latin via Old French. This dictionary (Little, Brown & Co.; New York: 1990) does not list "occident," but Webster confirms it is similarly derived: the Latin "occidere" (as in where the sun sets), into English via Medieval French.

Said's deconstructionist use of the term "orientalism" has no relevance to my usage, which is purely geographic but strongly tempered by concession to the American ignorance of geography -- specifically the probability that when Americans say "Asia," they too often think only of China, conceptually excluding the Indian subcontinent, Southeast Asia and Asia Minor.

I have not read Said's book either but am generally familiar with his views.

[ThomWV]

12. Bullshit

Its just an attempt to defuse the DSM.

[geckosfeet]

15. I agree. Specifically, its an attempt to avoid impeachment.

[GCP]

16. He completely skated over the DSM

It's an overblown and almost incomprehensible piece of crap. As is he.

[reprehensor]

19. Further proof that the 'memos' are legitimate.

Buckley, Schmuckley.

I don't think that the rabid mouth-breathers who vote true-red read him anymore, or Pat Buchanan either, for that matter.

They just aren't smart enough.

A piece like the one above leaves them confused and worried should they read it all the way through. Uncomfortable. Fearless Leader is not bathed in Holy light, thus... it must be wrong.

All they know is thuggish bullying and rigging elections.

And that is going to backfire.

[Duer 157099]

21. Cripes. "Exiguous"???

I mean, I'm all for articulate dialog, but jeepers, "exiguous"?

Who the hell does he think his readers are, anyway?