Thomas Friedman:Giving the Hatemongers No Place to Hide

[Wetzelbill]

July 22, 2005
Giving the Hatemongers No Place to Hide
By THOMAS L. FRIEDMAN
I wasn't surprised to read that British police officers in white protective suits and blue gloves were combing through the Iqra Learning Center bookstore in Leeds for clues to the 7/7 London bombings. Some of the 7/7 bombers hung out at the bookstore. And I won't be surprised if today's bombers also sampled the literature there.

Iqra not only sold hatemongering Islamist literature, but, according to The Wall Street Journal, was "the sole distributor of Islamgames, a U.S.-based company that makes video games. The video games feature apocalyptic battles between defenders of Islam and opponents. One game, Ummah Defense I, has the world 'finally united under the Banner of Islam' in 2114, until a revolt by disbelievers. The player's goal is to seek out and destroy the disbelievers."

Guess what: words matter. Bookstores matter. Video games matter. But here is our challenge: If the primary terrorism problem we face today can effectively be addressed only by a war of ideas within Islam - a war between life-affirming Muslims against those who want to turn one of the world's great religions into a death cult - what can the rest of us do?

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/07/22/opinion/22friedman.html?hp

[madeline_con]

1. "... what can the rest of us do?"

Listen to what the life-affirming Muslims have to say, and repeat it every chance we get.

It worked in another forum long ago and far away, when a self-professed "Christian" went on an anti-Arab, anti-Muslim tirade.

I told her she should stop posting the stuff she did, lest someone more ignorant than herself read it and believe it to be true. ;)

[1932]

2. On the one hand, if words were so powerful, after being a regular

reader of the New York Times's insistent pro-neoliberalism manifestos, I'd be voting Republican (or, at least, DLC), and I'm not. On the other hand, if they weren't so powerful, maybe we'd have a decent Democrat as president instead of what we do have, which is the choice of the big businesses who control the media.

[wtmusic]

3. Hmm, seems we have our own anti-Muslim video games

"In his study of the depiction of Arabs in combat video games, Ibrahim Marashi, of the history department of St. Anthony's College, Oxford University, discusses at length a video game entitled "Israel Air Force," produced by Electronic Arts. According to Marashi, the game fosters enmity against Arabs in both adults and children. In this game, explains Marashi, the player can take the controls of any plane in the Israeli air force and is assigned missions against various Arab countries at various periods in history. The 1948, 1956, 1967, 1973 and 1982 wars are revived with the latest computer technology, replete with the sound of Israeli radio signals coming from the air force headquarters. "The comments the voice from headquarters makes as the player shoots down an Arab aircraft are particularly disturbing," said Marashi. Another interesting facet of the game is the instruction booklet that accompanies it, "which is politically biased on its own."

http://weekly.ahram.org.eg/2001/561/9war3.htm

[Igel]

21. Let's see....

positing an Islam-dominated world in which rejection of a religion-based government by any group is to be met with religion-based warfare ...

versus a game maliciously and unfairly showing warfare between Israelis (Jews) and Arabs as a conflict with an ethnic dimension; of course, in history the protagonists were, respectively, Israelis (Jews) and Arabs. And nasty things were certainly said on both sides.

I can see how that would be every bit as bad as showing WWII in Europe as a conflict between Germans and others, or pointing out that in the Pacific theatre one side was ... gasp ... Japanese. Now maybe if we had established an evangelical theocracy over the Germans and Japanese, and rejected their attempts to revert to Lutheranism or Shintoism ...

[newswolf56]

4. Another writer who gets it. This piece should be read in companionship...

with Polly Toynbee's piece, linked here:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=103x141487

[wtmusic]

5. All Friedman gets is that it's completely Islam's fault

and if they just would relax and let us rape their lands, everyone would be so much better off :eyes:

[Coastie for Truth]

13. Might pay to read the link

I would compile it in a nondiscriminatory way. I want the names of the Jewish settler extremists who wrote "Muhammad Is a Pig" on buildings in Gaza right up there with Sheik Abd Al-Rahman Al-Sudayyis, a Saudi who is imam of Islam's holy mosque in Mecca. According to the Memri translation service, the imam was barred from Canada following "a report about his sermons by Memri that included Al-Sudayyis calling Jews 'the scum of the earth' and 'monkeys and pigs' who should be 'annihilated.' Other enemies of Islam were referred to by Sheik Al-Sudayyis as 'worshipers of the cross' and 'idol-worshiping Hindus' who must be fought."

<edit>

We also need to spotlight the "excuse makers," the former State Department spokesman James Rubin said. After every major terrorist incident, the excuse makers come out to tell us why imperialism, Zionism, colonialism or Iraq explains why the terrorists acted. These excuse makers are just one notch less despicable than the terrorists and also deserve to be exposed. When you live in an open society like London, where anyone with a grievance can publish an article, run for office or start a political movement, the notion that blowing up a busload of innocent civilians in response to Iraq is somehow "understandable" is outrageous. "It erases the distinction between legitimate dissent and terrorism," Mr. Rubin said, "and an open society needs to maintain a clear wall between them."

<edit>

Finally, we also need to shine a bright light on the "truth tellers." Every week some courageous Arab or Muslim intellectual, cleric or columnist publishes an essay in his or her media calling on fellow Muslims to deal with the cancer in their midst. The truth tellers' words also need to be disseminated globally. "The rulers in these countries have no interest in amplifying the voices of moderates because the moderates often disagree with the rulers as much as they disagree with the extremists," said Husain Haqqani, author of the new book "Pakistan: Between Mosque and Military." "You have to deal us moderates into the game by helping to amplify our voices and exposing the extremists and their amen corner."

[wtmusic]

15. Excuse me

Muslims and anyone who might try to understand their point of view. Got it.

[K-W]

16. Wow, he is aweful.

the EXCUSE MAKERS come out to tell us why imperialism, Zionism, colonialism or Iraq EXPLAINS why the terrorists acted.

Thomas Friedman pulls out the golden oldie of conflating explenation and excusing.

But Thomas Friedman would never risk downplaying the wrongness of a terror attack to critisize his opponants, would he?

These excuse makers are just one notch less despicable than the terrorists and also deserve to be exposed.

Oh.

the notion that blowing up a busload of innocent civilians in response to Iraq is somehow "understandable" is outrageous.

Yep, only those who refuse to understand why the attacks happen are moral people. The man is literally arguing that we must remain ignorant of why the attackers did what they did, because if we dont, we are supporting them.

[wtmusic]

20. Friedman: elitist, ethnocentric, dogmatic, charlatan

I can't say enough about the guy.

[conservdem]

17. I do not think he is saying that.

I think his proposal is reasonable and should probably be implemented.

[wtmusic]

18. If we could all just be happy...

is about as deep as his "proposal" goes. When Friedman claims "There is no political justification for 9/11, 7/7 or 7/21" he is not only wrong, he is silly wrong.

[K-W]

19. His proposal that we pretend that this is just some theological issue,

while we continue to grace the muslim world with our military, economic, and political interference is pretty aweful, and that is his overall proposal.

Should muslims do all they can to stop the violence, of course, but Thomas Friedman doesnt think America should have to do a damn thing even though we are the ones with actual control over things, and we are the ones who started this fight in the first place.

[K-W]

11. Your definition of "gets it" defies rational understanding.

Thomas Friedman is going to find every last little thing he can scapegoat the attacks on so that he doesnt have to face up to the fact that he and the imperialists he supports started the war with fundementalist Islam and have consistantly, to this day, chosen to proceed with it regardless of the consequences to innocent civillians at home and abroad.

[Wetzelbill]

6. Friedman has had me pissed off since I posted this thing

I just love his comments about excuse makers. Maybe Tom should talk to Robert Pape, THE expert on suicide bombers, and find out what makes them tick. He might hear the word "occupation" in there somewhere, and then he may think "hmmmm....imperialism, zionism, colonialism....".

It is a FACT, not an excuse or a guess, that terrorist attacks, especially suicide bombings happen due to occupation. Not even necessarily relgious fundamentalism, although that has some ties. Mainly people who are occupied, tend to get pissed off about stuff, and rally others to their cause. Religious fundamentalism adds another layer to the mix. But Tom, who beat a frickin' drum about going to war in Iraq, doesn't want to admit that it was pretty much the dumbest move in the history of U.S. foreign policy. Man, this guy jerks my chain sometimes.

[wtmusic]

7. Tom hasn't been doing a lot of commentary on the war lately

what the hell can he say? He tried the "good idea poorly executed" tack for awhile until that didn't wash, even with the diehards.

[Wetzelbill]

8. "but it could still work"

Tom is so pragmatic that he's wishy-washy. I still can't believe this guy sometimes. I can't believe he wrote a book as great as "From Beirut To Jerusalem" and then he manages to come up with stuff like this. He's also got a really weird hang up against the French, as in he write borderline racist stuff about them. It's really odd.

[bunny planet]

23. I know, I cut him some slack in the beginning because of that book too but

now I just can't stand to read anything he writes anymore. He really never takes a stand, but is as you say 'so pragmatic that he's wishy-washy'.

[Wetzelbill]

24. he is unduly racist towards

the French, he is a free-market ideologue and I've watched him backpedal from his Iraq War drum beating for the last year and a half. He's really lost me with how weak he is. You're right, he never does take a stand. Ever. I remember one time, maybe a year or so ago, Tom was writing about how great Iraq was going, talking about an Iraq version of American idol or something like that. It was so out of step with the violence going on that I wondered if he had lost his mind, lol. You are totally right, I agree 100 percent.

[Coastie for Truth]

14. More likely by the massive economic exploitation of the Arab proletariat

by the mineral extraction/exploitation industries.

What has the average Saudi, Kuwaiti, or Iraqi received from the mineral extraction/exploitation industries - directly (in the sense of a piece of the severance taxes coming off of $62/bbl crude as in Alaska and Texas and Alberta) or indirectly (economic development for the bottom 95%).

The oIligarchs take the money for the Arab proletariat's mineral birthright -- and spend it on "petrodollar recycling" (as in bordellos, casinos, race horses, harems, concubines) and payoff's to "charities" that fund wahabi madras's and terrorists.

What does the average Arab proletariat see of his birthright? Nothing.

The oIligarchs treat their own proletariat like the Romanov Czars treated their own proletariat -- and you saw what happened to the Romanov Czars -- and what came after them. A benevolent despotic dictatorship of the proletariat - that was neither benevolent not for the proletariat -- but definitely despotic.

What do the oIligarchs do with their trouble makers - send them off to be terrorists --- like Castro did with the Mariel boat lift.

I have been in the energy industry for 30 plus of the last 40 years.

The grandfather who raised my was a refugee from Czarist Russia.

[nine23]

9. Friedman is a simpleton. Pragmatic? More like useless.

Ann Coulter's hatemongering "literature" has moved a helluva lot more "units" out of Chapters and Barnes and Noble than any two bit Muslim reading room in Leeds ever has.

Turn on your radio. Right now - as we speak - RW talk radio throughout the US is spewing VIOLENT hatred adnausea towards anything VAGUELY Middle Eastern/South Asian. FreeRepublic (though small by comparison) is probably the best freakin' recruiting tool available to Islamic extremist "teachers" worldwide, and it doesn't even take a trip to a little "bookstore" to view it.

Faux News...jeez, the list goes on and on. Not to mention small-time, ignorant, useless Republican backbenchers who spew inflammatory stupidity during um, "wartime", and those stupid fucking words get printed throughout the world, putting others in places like Turkey and Italy IN SERIOUS JEOPARDY.

I used to like Friedman, but he's become totally irrelevant: a useless simp. An apologist, in full-on "denial-fest" mode, for failed US foreign policy over the last 30=odd years.

[Wetzelbill]

10. I can agree with useless

works for me. :)

So are you saying it wasn't a good idea for Colorado Rep. Tom Tancredo to say that the U.S. should respond to a nuclear attack by taking out Islam's most holiest sites? :)

Well, talking like that is just being tough on Terror! :sarcasm:

[bemildred]

12. Have another pull on the bong, Tom.

You can't blow enough smoke to fix this mess.

[Jack Rabbit]

22. Discussion of a negative reaction to Friedman's piece

Please click here.

[Chicago Democrat]

25. Friedman: WORSE THAN JUDITH MILLER... A War Criminal

Still doesn't get it.. As responsible for the present Iraq war as Bush is. Probably a neocon plant.


When we get our war crime trials...Thom Friedman should be tried along with Rummy and Powell and all of them!