Herbert: Who We Are (U.S. Torture)

[RamboLiberal]

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/08/01/opinion/01herbert.html?pagewanted=print

You won't find many people willing to accuse John McCain, John Warner or Lindsey Graham of being soft on terrorism. But the three Republican senators are giving the White House fits with their attempt to get legislation approved that would expressly prohibit cruel, inhumane or degrading treatment of detainees in U.S. custody.

There was a dramatic encounter during the floor debate last week when Senator Jeff Sessions, a Republican from Alabama, spoke out against the legislation, saying there was no need for it because, as he put it, the detainees are not prisoners of war, "they are terrorists."

Senator McCain, of Arizona, argued that the debate "is not about who they are. It's about who we are." Americans, said Mr. McCain, "hold ourselves" to a higher standard.

The stakes in this confrontation are high. Senators McCain, Warner and Graham are all influential members of the Armed Services Committee (Senator Warner is the chairman), and they have introduced the legislation in the form of amendments to the nearly half-trillion-dollar Pentagon authorization bill for fiscal 2006.

That such an initiative would come from high-ranking, hawkish Republicans is extraordinary, and the White House is not happy about it. In addition to prohibiting cruel and degrading treatment, the legislation would restrict military interrogation techniques to those authorized in a new Army field manual.

[Strelnikov_]

1. If They Perform DNA Tests Relating To American Values On The Reich-Wing

I don't think they will be too happy with what they find.

A few days ago I spoke with John Hutson, a former admiral who is now president of the Franklin Pierce Law Center in Concord, N.H. He was one of the signers of the letter to Senator McCain. He stressed that this is a very big issue for the country. If the United States fails to get its act together with regard to the humane treatment of detainees, he said, we will "have changed the DNA of what it means to be an American."

[Trevelyan]

13. Your heading is more valid than you know. The NYT has been caught

distorting the news AGAIN!!

:wtf: I went to Graham's site after reading the whole article to thank him for his stance against torture. The following is on his site:

Senator Graham Press Release
Contact: Wes Hickman (202-224-5972) or Kevin Bishop (864-250-1417)
Date: 07/25/2005
Graham Set to Offer Amendment Strengthening Presidential Role in Detaining Enemy Combatants

WASHINGTON – U.S. Senator Lindsey Graham (R-South Carolina) is scheduled to offer an amendment to the defense authorization bill strengthening the legal hand of the Bush Administration and future Administrations to hold enemy combatants at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba (Gitmo).

“It is imperative we have procedures in place at Gitmo that will keep terrorists off the battlefield as long as necessary to protect our nation,” said Graham, a member of the Senate Armed Services Committee. “My amendment seeks to achieve that goal.”

“Without congressional authority we run a real risk a federal court will either take over or impede our efforts at Gitmo,” said Graham “We are winning in some courts and losing in others. It is now time to strengthen Gitmo so it can meet our national defense needs.”

Graham noted that by Congress acting through statute, the likelihood of keeping properly designated enemy combatants off the battlefield for an undetermined amount of time is enhanced and will strengthen Gitmo’s legal position in federal court.

“The president has established procedures to determine who is an enemy combatant and to annually review their status,” said Graham. “It’s now time for Congress to sign-off on these procedures and turn them into a statute, a move the courts will give great deference to.”

The major provisions of the Graham amendment include:

The Combatant Status Review Tribunal (CSRT), established by the president, would become statutory law. The tribunal determines the status of whether a detainee is an unlawful enemy combatant.

The Annual Review Board (ARB), also established by the president, would become statutory law. The ARB reviews the combatant’s status on an annual basis to determine if the individual is an enemy combatant, still holds intelligence value and/or, still presents a threat to the United States. Graham modifies current procedure by allowing an enemy
combatant to have a military lawyer present when appearing before the ARB. They currently have a military representative present.

The president is also given flexibility to update CSRT and ARB procedures by giving Congress 30 days notice. “My goal is to legitimize the actions our nation is taking at Gitmo and keep enemy
combatants off the battlefield as long as possible,” said Graham. “Congress can and needs to act to legitimize the long-term detention of enemy combatants at Gitmo. The War on Terror will go on long after this Administration and we need to have congressional buy-in into this matter.”

“By getting Congress to put some of these things into law, it will strengthen the Commander in Chief’s hand in the War on Terror,” said Graham. “We can also clear up any legal confusion that currently exists and can show the courts the Executive and Legislative branches have acted together which will tremendously strengthen the legal
position of Gitmo, President Bush, and all future Commanders in Chief.”

~~~~~~~~~~~
My email to Graham:

I strongly oppose your giving Resident Bush more power to detain innocent people at Guantanamo Bay and elsewhere.

The way these people were captured "like someone catches and sells a fish" and the fact that Cheney was negotiating with Halliburton Brown and Root for these torture chambers in a continuation of the nototrious MK-ULTRA mind-control, sexual torture, human experimentation is despicable.

I had been writing to thank you for trying to investigate the Nazi-type War Crimes of the Bush Regime outlined in the New York Times.

...

The whole Bush Regime should be in the Hague not being given more power to torture and murder innocents.

By the way, are you going to try to enforce the court order forcing the Pentagon and Bush to release the 4 videos and photos of 7 year olds being gang raped by US Soldiers at Guantanamo Bay and the sodomizing of children in front of their mothers and the women
and men who were raped.

The president does not have the power to defy a court order but a dictator would.

Your amendment proposing to give the Bush Regime even more power after they have tortured, mutilated, raped and murdered so many innocent people including our own troops is despicable

:wtf: :wtf: :wtf:

[wli]

2. "History is a reminder of what's possible."

George W. Bush said this at Auschwitz.

[NEOBuckeye]

8. Saying something and understanding it are two different things. n/a

[annabanana]

3. It is near impossible to overstate how important this is..

It cuts to the heart of who is and is not "above" the law in this Country. It goes to the very basis of representative government as opposed to government by fiat.

Is America the "Land of the Free"?... or is it just another in the long line of disastrous, failed, totalitarian states that have littered history since time began?

[hobbit709]

4. Once again a Chickenhawk

criticizes those who served.

[DirtyDawg]

5. Hooray for Herbert...

...He consistently hits the nail on the head with his editorials, and has done so again with this one. The one thing I hate about what's happening with McCain's 'coming out' against bushco is that when the surge of right wing panic about their chances for holding onto power in '06, and particularly in '08, really gains momentum, their only choice will be to turn to McCain. At one time I would have supported that candidacy, but no longer. He's shown his willingness to become one of the more insidious enablers of bush and the rest of the neocon handlers and as such has been at the forefront on the downfall of a once great nation. He's been a part of the fundamental change in our DNA and I for one have no intention of rewarding him for it.

[A Simple Game]

6. Perhaps McCain is just playing along to survive this regime,

but that doesn't seem likely.

I too once would have supported a McCain presidency, but no more.

I believe he, by himself, by voicing disagreement could have stopped the war against Iraq. He chose not to.

[ClintonTyree]

7. As the Slugs are slowly finding out............

you reap what you sow. Laws and opinions that were once used to crucify Bill Clinton could now come back to haunt them in Roberts' S.C. nomination.

How long will it be before U.S. soldiers are captured and are subjected to the same treatment that we've used on "enemy combatants"? We've set an extremely dangerous precedent here, and IT WILL come back to haunt us someday.

This administration is totally out of control.

[Patchuli]

9. Time for a Tea Party, I say! nt

[Trevelyan]

10. I Love John Conyers also. Please visit his Blog, it has more useful

information than I can keep up with. http://www.conyersblog.us/

Someone looked up a great site on Katherine Gun, the British Secret Service Agent who released documents which can be used to bolster DSM that Britain was using American equipment to wiretap and bug the homes and offices of top UN officials and leaders of government at the time the UN was debating whether to sanction the invasion of Iraq. Ms. Gun was arrested for giving away state secrets but has been released since Blair and Whitehall don't want alot of other messy documents to come out during Ms. Gun's trial.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Stay tuned to the Times On Line. Tony Blair is going to have one of the worst days of his life today. Whitehall is trying to suppress a biography that gives further details about the lead-up to the war on Iraq and the pre- war double bombing campaign.... more and more ministers and advisors are giving evidence and naming names.... and dates.... and once again the fastidious British record keeping has left a trail of paper that can't be scrubbed.

The curious thing is that one of those who says she expressed her doubts about the war's legality is Baroness Sally Morgan.... and this is really fishy since she co-wrote with Falconer the final opinion that the illegal war would be legal under existing UN Resolutions...... thus spinning the ball back into Attorney Lord Peter Goldsmith's court.

D-Day for Tony Blair, Part 2. And not looking good at all for George Bush, either.

[Patchuli]

14. Thank you! I am a regular visit to his page

and a signer of petitions, a writer of LTTE and when I can, a donater. But I would love to see a mass message sent to the WH, one that they cannot 'misunderestimate' the importance of. We won't take it any longer. This illegal war was not started for U.S.!

Meanwhile, have some fun here! :rofl:

http://www.actofme.co.uk/bush_speech/bushspeechwriter.html

[Trevelyan]

11. You are not the only one who wants a "Boston Tea Party"

Please sign Veterans for Peace Impeachment petition. They also have a great separate 6 page pdf file on reasons for impeachment citing Nurenberg, US and International Law and the statement that the laws show that just because you bomb a country doesn't mean you can steal their resources.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Mid-West Newspaper:

http://www.madison.com/tct/mad/local//index.php?ntid=43364&nt_adsect=edit~~~State Dems: State Dems: Impeach Bush

Cheney, Rumsfeld too
By David Callender
June 13, 2005

Tell us what you think
Write a letter to the editor.

Wisconsin Democrats are calling for the impeachment of President George W. Bush, Vice President Dick Cheney and Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld.

Loyalists at this weekend's state party convention in Oshkosh passed a resolution calling for Congress to initiate impeachment proceedings against the three officials for their role in the war in Iraq.

The resolution contends that the administration "lied or misled" the United Nations, Congress, and the American public about the justification for the war. It cites the so-called "Downing Street memo" from British Prime Minister Tony Blair's government, as well as reports from U.N. weapons inspectors as evidence of widespread deception.

"Democrats, not only in Wisconsin but throughout the U.S., have been outraged by what we believe has been a clear cover-up of why the U.S. went into Iraq," said newly elected state party Chairman Joe Wineke.

Wineke said the resolution expresses the "the sense of frustration that Democrats in Wisconsin have over fighting a war for the wrong reasons."

Wisconsin Democrats are not the first to pass such a resolution.

The Nevada state party passed a similar resolution calling for Bush's ouster last year. And both the state and national Green Party, as well as former Green Party presidential candidate Ralph Nader, have called for Bush's impeachment because of his handling of the war in Iraq.

Linked from http://currentera.com/ a huge anti-Bush site with many, many articles on all the bush crimes.

:donut: :dem: :kick:

[Trevelyan]

12. Remember George Galloway, Member of Parliment who ROASTED the

two of ten Congresspersons who showed up to accuse Galloway of complicity in the Oil for Food Scandal with more forged documents?

Galloway testified before the World Tribunal on Iraq which concluded with a statement that Bush and Blair should be charged with War Crimes.

Much interesting testimony before the WTI http://www.worldtribunal.org/main/?b=65

Galloway opens door to expose U.S. crimes

http://www.worldtribunal.org/main/?#The Excessive Use of Weapons and Banned Weapons
by Akira Maeda, Sayo Saruta, Koichi Inamori, ICTI
The Use of Depleted Uranium (DU) Weapons

1. The Truth About the Use of Depleted Uranium (DU) Weapons by US and UK Troops has a great site with much current information

~~~~~~~

http://www.respectcoalition.org/?ite=784

~George Galloway meets brother of Guantanamo prisoner

After speaking at the Brighton Festival, Respect MP George Galloway, met the brother of Omar Deghayes, the 35-year-old father from Saltdean, East Sussex, imprisoned in Guantanamo Bay since 2002 without charge.

George listened to Abu-Baker Deghayes describe the alleged torture and abuses suffered by Omar, at the hands of the US military after his unlawful arrest in Pakistan.

The US guards attacked Omar with pepper spray, permanently blinding him in one eye, when he complained about them taking away his English Koran. He had a hose inserted up his nose until he felt he was drowning and has endured electric shock torture and beatings.

Omar told his lawyer Clive Stafford Smith, his American captors said his wife would be sold into prostitution when they arrested him.

George Galloway said: “ This is absolutely despicable and I will raise the issue in Parliament at the earliest opportunity.”

Jackie Chase, of the Save Omar Campaign, condemned local New Labour MP Des Turner and Jack Straw’s inactivity in securing Omar’s release.

She said: “How can we send our soldiers to war to die for the American neo-con cause, yet we can’t retrieve one of our residents from Guantanamo Bay.”

Mr Galloway responded: “Precisely. We have a special relationship when it comes to killing people on George Bush’s behalf or having our own young men killed for George Bush.

“But when it comes to demanding our citizens and residents are treated properly in accordance with international law we have got no special relationship at all.

“What is the point of this so-called special relationship if you can’t get Omar from Saltdean, Brighton out of Guantanamo Bay.”

Omar’s family was granted refugee status in Britain in 1987, after fleeing Libya following Gaddaffi’s assassination of his father Amer, who opposed the regime as a lawyer and trade unionist.

All the family have British citizenship except Omar, whose application was being processed when he was captured and imprisoned with his wife and child, while travelling in Pakistan.

Although his wife and child were later released, Jack Straw refused to demand Omar’s return to Britain and stand trial here if he has committed a crime. Instead, the British Government have insisted as Omar was only a resident here, he should ask the Libyans to
take care of him - the very same Libyan regime that murdered Omar’s father, causing his family to flee and seek asylum in Britain in 1986.

Clive Stafford Smith, has already confirmed that in September 2004, the US authorities allowed four Libyan intelligence officers to interrogate Omar in Guantanamo, accusing him of being a member of the Libyan opposition and threatening to kill him if returned to Libya.

George Galloway said: “This despicable tactic of the Government to try and wriggle out of their responsibilities to people who are lawfully resident in this country is just about as
low as it gets.

“And when the country they’re saying should be handling Omar’s case is Gaddafi’s Libya this just makes it a tragedy and a farce.”

The Respect MP said: “First of all, they told us all these years that Gaddafi’s Libya was a giant prison camp and now we’re being expected to believe that Gaddafi’s Libya will lobby the Americans on behalf of a man who is in a giant prison camp.

“The deep double-standards of these people is revealed by the fact that now Gaddafi’s Libya is our best friend again.

“Britain is actually training the intelligence services of Gaddafi’s Libya and giving his army training at Sandhurst as part our aid. So much for opposition to dictatorships in the Arab World.

“This tactic of wriggling out of our responsibilities is despicable in itself, but when it’s being done under the pretext that Omar has Mr Gaddafi to look after him, is beneath contempt.”

The Respect MP said he will raise Omar’s detention in Parliament and urged everybody in the campaign to keep up the pressure on local MP Des Turner until Omar is brought home.

Omar has been deeply moved by the level of support he has received and simply asks for those holding him to put any charges against him before a British court so he can prove his innocence. The Save Omar Campaign appealed to every one to take petitions into your workplaces, communities and colleges to keep up the pressure on the British Government
to demand Omar is released.

For further information go to www.save-omar.org.uk
~~~~~~~~~~

Very sad, there are photos of demonstrations on behalf of Omar in Britain and a poster on his brother's site for Omar does not have any comments. I used my Blogsite name and password and left a short comment.
~~~~~~~~~~~

A letter has been received from Omar thanking everyone for the work that is being done for him here, he is extremely grateful for every effort we make.Omar's Lawyer, Clive Stafford-Smith, has called for gifts to be sent to Omar. He stressed the gifts must be innocuous, for example copies of the National Geographic Magazine.

Please send any gifts as soon as possible to:

BHMF,
c/o Sabri Ben Ameur,
15 Blois Road,
Lewes
East Sussex
BN7 2TR
Tel. 07867
773723

www.cageprisoners.com states that letters let prisoners know they are not alone and offers some measure of protection that citizens know and care about these victims.
:cry: :cry: :cry:

[Fritz67]

15. I just wish...

...it would occur to some of these people how this sounds to the wider world.

"If you don't support torture, you're for the terrorists"

WTF?

Is that really what they want to stand for?

I don't mean the guys at the top. Those guys are evil slimeballs who care about nothing but money, power, and feeling the rush of exerting their (percieved) superiority over brown people.

I mean the rank and file...the people who support the Bush Junta. I don't know what scares me more...the throught that they don't really know what they're supporting, or that they do and they don't give a flying leap.

I'm sorry, Freepers, we're America. We're better than this. Just because we haven't gone as low as lopping heads off on TV, doesn't mean it's right for us to lock people up, throw away the key, and torture them without any sort of oversight.