Chavez Raises His Profile at U.N. Summit

[Judi Lynn]

Chavez Raises His Profile at U.N. Summit

By CHRISTOPHER TOOTHAKER
Associated Press Writer

September 20, 2005, 3:10 AM EDT

CARACAS, Venezuela -- In a matter of days, Venezuelan leader Hugo Chavez denounced the U.S. government on the floor of the U.N., called President Bush a threat to the world, then waved an American flag and told New Yorkers he hopes for peace.
(snip)

During his New York visit Chavez called the U.S. government "a terrorist state" and suggested Iraqis were justified in defending against what he called a "criminal" war.

The Venezuelan president's fiery speech denouncing the Iraq war before the U.N. General Assembly drew some of the loudest applause at the summit.

"He reminded Americans that Bush cannot be trusted, and warned world leaders, too," said Josefina Morales, a single mother who joined the rally to welcome Chavez home. "He sends his message to the world, and people are listening."
(snip/...)

http://www.newsday.com/news/nationworld/wire/sns-ap-venezuela-chavez,0,680024.story?coll=sns-ap-nationworld-headlines

[mike_c]

1. I wish Chavez were president of this country....

Can Venezuela annex the U.S.? PLEASE?

[knowbody0]

2. yeah, maybe make one America

with justice and liberty for all.
what a fantasy.

[San Cocho]

3. sorry, I don't

you may want to consider what he is doing in his own country rather than just what he says about the USA. He is also using troops to take private property.


I can't support him when he does things like this.

http://www.hrw.org/press/2003/07/venez071803.htm

[mike_c]

4. I utterly support the redistribution of "private property"...

...in the interests of bettering people's lives. I would support it here in the U.S. as well, although I doubt that it would serve as important a role here. But limiting the "rights" of property owners in the public interest? You betcha!

[San Cocho]

5. actually the recent Supreme Court decision

in the US made it easier here too.

but I am opposed. and I certainly don't support troop seizing property by force.

whose to say in a few years they don't seize it again and give it to someone else.

[1932]

32. Nobody is taking land by force. Nobody is resisting, so no force is used.

But, note, even if you are just a private citizen executing a repossession order in the US, the sheriff accompanies you.

Do you think the US justice system is illegitimate because it requires sheriffs to perform that duty?

As for the CT supreme court decision and land reform in developing country, they do have a something in common: they are about the allocation of property between the powerful and the powerless. Yet, there's also a significant difference: which direction the power is flowing in that relationship.

[mike_c]

37. bingo....

"Yet, there's also a significant difference: which direction the power is flowing in that relationship."

Hammer-- meet nail-head.

[1932]

31. A note about land reform: the US imposed land reform on Japan.

The Marshall Plan redistributed land. I may have the precise numbers off by a little bit. IIRC, nine Japanese families controlled the vase majority of wealth in Japan. The Marshall Plan limited land ownership to 3 or 5 acres.

When Castro overthrew Batista, the US didn't take sides until Castro proposed land reform. When the US objected, Cuba noted that the US was being hypocritical, considering the Marshal Plan. The said it was especially hypocritical, since Cuba was only limiting private land owners to 1000 acres.

Richard Gott writes about this in Cuba: A New History.

Now, another interesting thing about land reform is that it promotes more equitable distribution of wealth. It turns out that according to the book Health and Democracy (written by two professors at the Harvard School of Public Health) just about every measure of a country's health correlates with polarization of wealth.

Guess what? The Marshall Plan in Japan was just about the best medicine ever. It's wealth redistributive polices caused all indicators of health to change significantly. Today, Japan has among the highest rates of cigarette smoking but the lowest rates of heart disease. Egalitarianism is so good for a society that it can offset bad behaviour. Amazing huh?

I really support land reform.

I could not overstate my support for land reform in societies where the current distribution of land is both inequitable in its current form and which was due to a process that inequitable.

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

6. Yet you've shown lots of love for your boy Alvaro "Mr Progressive".

http://hrw.org/english/docs/2005/07/13/colomb11325.htm

" Uribe is about to sign a law that would let Colombia’s paramilitaries off the hook for their terrorist acts. "
José Miguel Vivanco, Americas director for Human Rights Watch

http://hrw.org/reports/2005/colombia0805/

Smoke and Mirrors
Colombia’s demobilization of paramilitary groups

http://hrw.org/english/docs/2005/06/22/colomb11202.htm


Colombia: Women Face Prison for Abortion
Human Rights Watch Joins Challenge to Restrictive Abortion Laws


http://hrw.org/english/docs/2005/05/20/colomb10988.htm

A Bad Plan in Colombia

By José Miguel Vivanco, director of Human Rights Watch's Americas Division, and Maria McFarland Sánchez-Moreno, Human Rights Watch Colombia researcher

BRAVO!

[San Cocho]

7. yep, I prefer Alvaro to Uribe

not to say Colombia doesn't have problems but then again Colombia's problems are even more dire than Venezuela's.

Ven doesn't have a guerrilla war going on. Alvaro is just as popular in Colombia as Hugo is in Venezuela.

and the Human Rights organizations, as well as the US government, are complaining that the terms of the cease fire from the AUC are too lenient not that it shouldn't be don.

However, if you can give me a the name of a president that has done better for Colombia over the past 40 years, I am all ears.

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

8. Same goes for you in regards to Venezuela. I'm waiting. n/t

[San Cocho]

9. abortion is illegal in Venezuela too

Ven has a 70% poverty rate. during the 70s it was more prosperous. ARe you going to defend "insult" laws, stacking of the supreme court, limitations on protests, and private property seizures with military force??

how about this? you continue to support Chavez and I will support Uribe??

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

10. You said it, during the 70s. Waaaayyy before Chavez. It was up to

80% poverty when Chavez took over. FDR was also accused of stacking the courts. I'd probably do the same if the richest interest in my country (aided by the world's only superpower) were stacked against me. Wouldn't you?

Insult laws? no I don't support them.

But you are supporting a drug dealing scumbag with a personal vendetta. So hey, knock yourself out.

http://www.colombiasolidarity.org.uk/Solidarity%2014/uribedrugtrafficker.html

http://www.colombiajournal.org/colombia185.htm

To each his own. The only reason why i even bother to post is because ever since you got here. You seem to go out of your way to dump on Mr Chávez while praising this other guy. Maybe they are both complex figures. What do you think?

Chúpate esa en lo que te mondo la otra.

[San Cocho]

11. and you are supporting a coup leader

and traitor to his own country who is repressing freedom of speech.

so stacking the Supreme Court is justified if you don't get your way??

Is that why his supporters here want him to be president of the USA too?? I doubt it.

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

12. Hey, I love commie dictator traitors. You love drug dealing murderers

isn't this beautiful?

As far as the courts go. They were stacked by the previous corrupt admins. So maybe he's trying to balance it out a la FDR. What do you think?

[San Cocho]

13. no, they are being stacked by Chavez

go back to Human Rights Watch and check out more articles on Venezuela.

I doubt many here would be supportive if Bush tried to implement the same controls, restrictions, and "reforms" here in the USA.

Colombia has more serious problems than Venezuela. Namely, a 40 year old civil war. I am sure the Colombians will appreciate any suggestion on how they can improve on the peace process.

I note a difference here in that Uribe has been working at least obstensibly within the confines of the law, not so for Chavez who simply changes the law or procedures if it is not to his own liking.

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

15. So this narco president tied to the paramilitaries is working within the

law? OK, tell you what you go back to HRW and look for more stuff on Uribe and while you're at it find out more about his drug dealing family and past.

And I think the whole court thing has been beaten to death. Yeah I get it. I'm sure Venezuelans would welcome you're suggestions about how to handle their democracy. So you're saying previous admins. didn't stack them in their favor as well?

This isn't a game of who has more problems. I don't give a shit. You come into my house talking smack about Chávez's government. But then you show all this admiration for Uribe?

Speaking of treason isn't the Ven opposition guilty of talking money from a corrupt Bush regime to topple their elected government? I mean shit it's not like they don't have their own money to do that.

edited to add ?

[San Cocho]

18. I didn't realize Chavez butt kissing was a prerequisite

yeah, Maria Machado is facing 16 years in prison for helping organize a recall election that Hugo wrote into his own Constitution.

she was in the USA when she was indicted and voluntarily returned to Venezuela to face charges. The administration's lawyers wanted to confine her to prison as a flight risk pending trial. An interesting claim indeed, a person who is out of the country, voluntarily returns, is declared a flight risk. Thankfully, the judge recognized the absurdity of the government's claim and set her free pending trial.

Hugo only served 2 years for his participation in the coup of 1992.

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

19. It might not be a prerequisite but many undercover freepers

with a similar agenda have been kicked out before once they show their true colors. I'm not implying anything but that's the way it's been. I've noticed also how you haven't tried to refute anything that's been posted about that right wing freak Uribe. I wonder why.

Which country has the highest union activist murder rate? Which country is one of the largest recipients of US military "aid". Despite their horrible human rights record (which makes Venezuela look like Disney world in comparison).

PS What is your opinion of the Bush mis-administration? (And no I'm not saying one has to agree w/ the Ven. government in order to despise these crooks).

[San Cocho]

20. I have no agenda

I am a Clark type Democrat, not Dean or Sharpton for sure.

I would like the US to have strong ties with other nations. I don't celebrate the disintegration of USA relationships with other countries. The US will have a strong ally in Colombia for years to come with Uribe. Can the same be said of Venezuela??

and again, I acknowlege Colombia has an extremely unfortunate history especially during the time of "La Violencia". However, Colombians have a president that has given them optimism that cuts across class lines. That cannot be said about Venezuela who by the way do not have near the problems Colombia does.


I question how right wing Uribe is since he originally came from a liberal party but ran as an independent. http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/americas/08/25/columbia.killings.ap/index.html?section=cnn_latest

Bush is a fool. In fact he is the second most ignorant leader in this hemisphere. guess who I think is first?? The war in Iraq is a disaster. Heck, I KNEW before the war this would happen. The military victory would be easy but the occupation would be a disaster.

what is your opinion of Bush then??

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

22. That's bullshit.

I have no problem with people coming here with constructive criticism regarding Venezuela. But kissing up to Uribe?????? You've got to be fucking kidding.

My opinion of Mr Bush has been well documented in over 1000 of my posts.
As far as Latin American are concerned they are entitled to their sovereignty. This isn't a competition of who can kiss the US's ass more. Funny thing is that Clinton and Chavez were respectful to each other. Guess who fucked that up?

It's pretty lame to imply that Chavez is the most ignorant leader. Since he has demonstrated in his long ass speeches that he is eloquent and knows more about world history and events than the average US citizen.

Dean???? Yeah he's such a radical. :eyes:

BTW do you have a Venezuelan girlfriend? You remind me of somebody else.

[San Cocho]

24. no, but I had a Colombian girlfriend

I have been to Venezuela 5 times though. I like the country.

Yeah, I guess if you think Sponge Bob is eloquent then you would think Chavez is too. Have you actually listed to one of his speaches. He is like a clown.

since I just joined today in response to the disparagement of Colombia in another post, please forgive me for not reviewing your 1000 posts prior to engaging in this discourse.

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

27. You are forgiven. Don't let it happen again.

"disparagement of Colombia"?
I don't think so, maybe of your man Uribe and his adminstration. If anybody is putting down the Colombian people or the country you should alert the mods.

Sponge Bob huh. That's real clever that's almost Sean Hannity clever. Seriously though, I've listened to many of his speeches and just today I listened to his 1.5 hr interview with Amy Goodman. He really kicks ass and takes names.

SEEEE YA!

[1932]

36. It seems like the worst thing to ever happen to progressive internet sites

is the Latin American girlfriend!

What is with all these women who come to the US and talk their boyfriends into becoming neoliberals?!?!

It's an epidemic, I tell you.

If there was group of people on which I'd like to put some immigration restrictions, it's cute Latin American daughters of wealthy families, because they have some mad power over American men. I don't know if it's Manchurian Candidate-like power or Body Heat-like power, or what, but it's power.

If only that power could be harnessed for good.

[Judi Lynn]

38. You point out a real peculiarity. Guys who hate Chavez who want

to mention the fact their girlfriends are real winners.

I never ceased wondering about this phenomenon. What ARE the chances? Most DU'ers are simply too busy to go into their personal lives here.

[Judi Lynn]

25. He was pardoned by Venezuelan President Caldera.

Why would it be wiser for him to stay in prison longer?

He lead a coup against Carlos Andres Perez who ordered government troops to fire into a crowd of protesting poor people:

The Caracazo, an uprising in Caracas against the Perez government in February of 1989, was met with massive military repression which left over 3,000 dead. This event marked a turning point in the country's socio-political landscape. Hugo Chavez, then a young colonel in the army, refused to participate in the Caracazco crack down and in 1992 led an attempted coup d'etat against the Perez government. When the coup failed, Chavez took the blame for it and was imprisoned until 1994.
(snip)

http://www.upsidedownworld.org/ven-public-opinion.htm

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

....the Caracazo, for example, when anywhere from 327 (government figure) and 3,000 (independent estimates by journalists) people were killed by the Venezuelan military is extremely offensive to the Venezuelans who lived the tragedy.
(snip/...)

http://counterpunch.org/girdin08142004.html

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Photos taken during "El Caracazo:"

Click on photo thumbnails: http://abn.info.ve/galeria/show.php?carpeta=El%20Caracazo.%20Fotos%20Frasso.%201989

[San Cocho]

26. history repeats itself, 9 protesters killed in Venezuela

http://hrw.org/english/docs/2004/03/05/venezu8072.htm

so what are you saying Judy?? a coup is now justified???

[Judi Lynn]

30. Where in your article is there any indication Hugo Chavez killed anyone?

The coup against Carlos Andres Perez was led against a President who HAD HIS TROOPS FIRE INTO A CROWD OF VENEZUELAN CITIZENS.

Regarding anything your reference Jose Vivanco could offer in his appraisal of Latin American events, he is deeply disregarded for his flagrant puppetship to American interests, including Uribe. He is notoriously anti-left-wing policy in Latin America. He's definitely in the pocket of right-wing power-hungry cretins.

But who is Jose Miguel Vivanco?

What is Human Rights Watch?

What are their roles?

What do they have to do with Venezuela?

Maybe some readers can help out here – because I have found some information which I cannot decipher (mentioned later below regarding Jose Miguel Vivanco).

According to www.freerepublic.com/forum/a392db7a801ea.htm a Counter Punch article dated May 25, 2000 …”Jose Miguel Vivanco, a Chilean-born, Harvard-educated lawyer who heads Human Rights Watch Americas””

The article goes on to say: “The fact that Human Rights Watch should lend itself vigorously to the effort to push the military aid package (for the Colombian “drug‰ wars) through Congress is bad enough –”

“…People like Vivanco and unscrupulous outfits like Human Rights Watch will testify glowingly to great progress in imparting respect for human rights in the Colombian police and military. The killings of labor organizers, peasant leaders, church workers and any other threat to the right wing drug lords in Colombia will go on, done by the paramilitary death squads supervised by the army and the drug lords (very often identical) with extra direction from the CIA.”
(snip/...)

http://www.williambowles.info/venezuela/ven_hrw.html

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

In reference to your support of _Bush's giving U.S. taxpayers' money to Venezuelan opposition groups in order to destabilize the Venzuelan government:

As court proceedings begin this month against four Venezuelans from an election campaign group that accepted donations from a foreign government - something that is indisputably a federal crime under both U.S. and Venezuelan law - it's no surprise that members of the Bush administration in Washington cry that the sky is falling.

After all, it's their money (well, on second thought, it is U.S. taxpayers' money) that is at the root of the alleged criminal enterprise. And the upcoming trial of accused Venezuelan electoral delinquents, held in the public light of day, will shine yet more sunlight upon Washington's secret recipes for meddling in the elections of other nations.

On Friday, U.S. State Department spokesman Tom Casey and Jose Vivanco of Human Rights Watch - thirteen blocks from the White House and on the same day - chirped in harmony to spin this story as a case of "persecution" against "legitimate electoral activities."

But as last year's presidential campaign in the United States revealed, Yankee political parties and candidates are prohibited from accepting foreign contributions from any source, especially from other governments. As John Kerry found out the hard way, the corrupting practices that Bush and Vivanco condone in Venezuela are strictly verboten in the United States…
(snip/...)

http://www.fromthewilderness.com/free/ww3/071205_world_stories.shtml

[1932]

35. Machado is facing jail for taking money from N.E.D. to finance a political

campaign.

They have a statute that specifically prohibits it.

Machado believed that the US was going to guarantee that her side would win and that they'd tear up the constitution for good (just like they tried to do in their coup-for-a-day, which was also supported financially by N.E.D.). They didn't try to prosecute her the first time, but there has to come a point where the government says, how many times are we going to turn the other cheek?

[Ben Ceremos]

21. Bolivarian Revolution

as in new laws for a new society. "Stacking the courts" is actually a way of allowing the society to survive against constant reaction and coup attempts. New laws, new game, new hopes for the 80% that have been eating garbage, dying in droves and haven't had a defender until Chavez "siezed power". Convenient that you forget that he has been democratically elected twice and survived the recall that his Bolivarian constitution enshrined. Also convenient to dismiss the American involvement in the coup attempts. You expect Chavez and his supporters (the nation) to play by your "gringo" rules and to sit back while fascists such as Boosh destroy the small gains Venezuelans have made. I imagine you aren't supportive of Cuba either. I think you are not aware of what is actually at stake in Venezuela and just enjoy using Human Rights Watch as a bludgeon. Never mind that America is on the list of human rights violators. I wish you a happy blah-blah-blah.

Viva Chavez, Viva Venezuela, Viva Solidaridad, Venceremos!

[San Cocho]

23. I haven't forgotten anything

I already made a post saying he will be reelected. I don't have to like him though.

heck no I am not a supporter of dictatorial Cuba. should I be???

[1932]

34. The consititution in Venezuela allows stacking.

No doubt they learned from the New Deal experience of FDR.

Chavez didn't change the law on a whim. He was elected in 1998. The congress elected at the time voted to dissolve the government, have new elections, have that new constituent assembly draw up a new constitution, and even though the law didn't require it, Chavez VOLUNTARILY ran in a new election under the new constitution to allow the people to accept or reject him as the new president under the new laws. Since the new consitution was enacted, nothing they have done has not been done according to the consitution (which almost every peasant in the barrio has in his or her back pocket -- and thanks to Chavez they can now read it and debate it and discuss it and hold their leaders accountable to it).

Anyone who cares to read about this for themselves should read Chavez and the New Latin America (I might have the tiltel slightly off, but it's available at Amazon.com).

[San Cocho]

14. yep, and the other thing for sure

is your murderous commie dictator traitor and my murderous narcotrafficker will both be reelected.

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

16. Isn't Uribe trying to change the law so that he can run again? I

think I saw that somewhere.

[San Cocho]

17. yeah, but it has to be approved by the constitutional court

that is the holdup. the legislature already has approved it. he is going about it in a deliberative manner through the proper channels.

I've heard some commentators say that he shouldn't run again. That he should just serve his term and be known as a pretty good president and retire into the sunset.

there is certainly reason to fear given the history of latin american leaders that he will turn corrupt or he will not enjoy the success he has this term.

still, he is overwhelmingly supported by the people and thankfully has made no attempts at a power grab unlike other latin american leaders.

[1932]

33. The venezuelan constitution allows "stacking" of the supreme court.

They decided as a nation in 1998 that the Supreme Court should not be an anchor to the conservative past. The consituent assembly made the rules that Venezuela has followed with regard to the Supreme Court.

Even in the 70s, Venezuela was one of the three most polarized nations by income in the world. Chavez is the democratic result of a country that could create a high average income and a decent GNP, but which distributes ALL of that wealth to a very few people.

[acmavm]

29. Giving land to poor peasants rather than letting greedy absentee

landlords and owners hog it all for themselves? Land not being used to the betterment of the country or the people. Land some rich guy wants just because he's a covetous greedy person. Land he probably didn't get fairly anyway.

By all means, maintain the status quo. <sarcasm>

It's exactly like the tax situation here. Make the middle class (what's left of it) and the poor support the rich man, pay his taxes.

[liveoaktx]

28. Video of Chavez at UN and some MP3s

Video

MP3 English translation

MP3 Spanish

[Cha]

39. Thankfully, the World has

Chavez with a pulpit at the UN telling the truth about bush. No wonder the bushwa didn't want him as Venezuela's president in addition to using the oil to start social programs for the People.

Buy Citgo! I did while I was in Canada..looked for it everywhere when it was time to fill up.