Iraq has descended into anarchy, says Fisk

[lovuian]

http://feeds.bignewsnetwork.com/redir.php?jid=dcc909905041f48b&cat=c08dd24cec417021

Iraq has descended into anarchy, says Fisk
By Nigel Morris Home Affairs Correspondent
Published: 13 October 2005
Most of Iraq is in a state of anarchy, with insurgents controlling parts of Baghdad just half a mile from the so-called Green Zone, an Independent debate was told last night.

Robert Fisk, Middle East correspondent for The Independent, whose new book The Great War for Civilisation: the Conquest of the Middle East has just been published by 4th Estate, painted a picture of deepening chaos and misery in Iraq more than two years after Saddam Hussein was toppled.

He said that the "constant, intensive involvement" in the Middle East by the West was a recurring pattern over centuries and was the reason why "so many Muslims in the Middle East hate us". He added: " We can close doors on history. They can't."

Fisk doubted the sincerity of Western leaders' commitment to bringing democracy to Iraq and said a lasting settlement in the country was impossible while foreign troops remained. "In the Middle East, they would like some of our democracy, they would like a couple of boxes off the supermarket shelves of human rights as well. But I think they would also like freedom from us."

What a mess!!

*** Edited by Admin. Please limit excerpts of copyrighted works to no more than four paragraphs. ***

[saltpoint]

1. I trust the words of Mr. Fisk a hell of a lot more than those --

-- of a government that bans him from setting foot in this country.

Mr. Fisk is a distinguished and intelligent reporter.

Mr. Bush and his lying War Cabinet are a pack of liars.

Three cheers for Mr. Fisk.

[mia]

2. "television connives with governments at war"

"Newspapers can tell you as closely as they can what these horrors are like....He rejected suggestions that graphic pictures of the dead in newspapers took away their dignity. He said: "My view is the people who are dead would want us to record what happened to them."



I couldn't agree more. We all know how TV coverage of the Vietnam War helped to end it.

[celestia671]

5. Your picture...

Is that from Iraq?

:cry:

[mia]

10. I believe so.

Saved May 2004 from Yahoo news.

[lovuian]

3. Thanks for shortening it

:kick:

[Gregorian]

4. I am officially depressed.

It's more than I can take.

I anguished through the sanction years. But this physically hurts.

There are mothers. And children. Their suffering is our suffering.

[ninkasi]

6. It is our suffering if we are connected

by a common thread of humanity, as most of us on this board are. That's why some of the conservatives don't understand, or get it. For them, it's I, me, myself, first, last and always. For us, it's us, we, all of us. We want to all rise together, rather than stepping on other people's bodies to climb our way to the top.

I see children, who could be my children, my nieces or nephews, any child I love. There is nothing sadder, or more tragic, than seeing these dead innocent ones. The people who shriek that we don't love our country, but who mourn for "innocent fetuses", even though that's the extent of their caring, are the ones who are gung-ho for the war responsible for the killing of the little ones in the picture.

[Gregorian]

7. I understand the fine line between love and hate.

I'm sickened by the shortsightedness that so many, especially conservatives have. As though life were not much more than an equation. A theory. An idea. A concept. (I must say that this is where I get confused that so many on this forum are atheists. But that's just me. I guess you can have compassion and not be a christian.) I remember when there was an influx of Vietnamese to the US, after the war. I also remember how awful they were at driving. We ridiculed them. We even hated them. But I began a close relationship with these people at work. And I learned who they were and what they'd been through. My compassion began at that moment.

It is a wonderful thing to realize that we are all in this together. We are of the same mind. We are not divided.

I was again reminded of this the other night while watching a show about a man who had designed peanut huskers to distribute to villages in Mali. How bright someone from a nonmodernized society can be. How fast they can catch on. How the women looked at the men with scorn that after 5000 years they had failed to see how they separated the peanuts from the shells. We're all the same. It should be no surprise.

I finally heard the words to Bob Marley's song, today, after hearing it for 30 years- "...when the color of one's skin is of no more significance than the color of their eyes..."

It is only an unnatural and false action when we divide ourselves.

Those who discover, too late, how they have caused suffering, will suffer the most.


Gosh. It's been a very bad day for me.

[lovuian]

8. Gregorian you need a hugg and a thanks for your empathy

and compassion... the suffering has to be immense...

[Gregorian]

12. Thanks

I very much appreciate your caring.

[ninkasi]

9. I'm sorry...

It's only the ones who truly care who truly suffer. The ones who frighten and disgust me are the ones who can see the carnage, the brutality, and dismiss it lightly as "collateral damage." No...it's death, grief, pain, and loss. For every death, there are raw, gaping holes in their loved one's hearts, which may in time scar over, but which will always be there.

Of all of the many tragedies of this war, the greatest, is that none of this, not the killing, or the maiming, or the grief, or the pain, HAD to be. It was calculated by people with shriveled lumps where their hearts should be, and the whisperings of satan where they should have souls. It was done to sate their greed, and their craving for power.

The damage being done in Iraq is visible, in pictures of dead children and bombed buildings. The damage being done here is more subtle, but just as real. In the end, both countries will lose. We took the fight to them, though, and that's what tears at my conscience.

[nashville_brook]

13. i am totally on your wavelength -- we are never alone

and every little thing we do counts! it counts a LOT!

when i was in high school and college, my wonderful aunt/gaurdian would give me hell for getting "all wrapped up" in my peace work -- central america was the war of the day. i felt abandoned b/c i learned a lot of my political awareness from her. afterall, they were the liberal catholics who helped new vietnamese families in our little mountain town.

years later it occurred to me: she was worried about ME more than Guatemala and that's okay. she encouraged me to take on projects that i could experience immediate success. at the time she said, "quit worrying about the world when your backyard is a mess." i wasn't happy about her "wisdom" at the time. i took it as belittling my political sensitivities.

BUT the true fact is, we have to have our own house in order. we have to expereience success on a small scale and order in our lives SO THAT WE MAY go forward with personal strength.

it's easy to have BAD DAYS, bad weeks -- jeez, bad years with bush at the helm.

so, in this spirit i send good vibes and encourage you to organize your garage/basement/kitchen cabinets... paint a room... prune your trees... talk to the neighborhood kids... bake some cookies and share them with someone you''ve never talked to on your street.... do something for yourself and do it in the spirit of putting order and nourishing energy back into the world. it helps -- it really does.

:pals:

here's my little practice i've undertaken: i'm baking bread every day. i can go to the store -- but it's about the practice and mindfulness that makes us aware of how special "daily bread" is. and i'm not a "christian." but i totally welcome truth in whatever form it comes to us.

chin up -- it's friday!

[cassiepriam]

11. I am haunted by all the Iraqi women and children we have murdered

maimed, tortured, raped. And the Iraqis who are alive must be
in a living hell. And why? Because we wanted to steal their oil.
America's collective karma is very bad. I think we will pay big time as well we should.