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Attack on Iran: A Looming Folly (W Pitt)

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katty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-09-06 08:33 PM
Original message
Attack on Iran: A Looming Folly (W Pitt)
cont'd at: http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/010906I.shtml

Attack on Iran: A Looming Folly
By William Rivers Pitt
t r u t h o u t | Perspective

Monday 09 January 2006

The wires have been humming since before the New Year with reports that the Bush administration is planning an attack on Iran. "The Bush administration is preparing its NATO allies for a possible military strike against suspected nuclear sites in Iran in the New Year, according to German media reports, reinforcing similar earlier suggestions in the Turkish media," reported UPI on December 30th.

"The Berlin daily Der Tagesspiegel this week," continued UPI, "quoted 'NATO intelligence sources' who claimed that the NATO allies had been informed that the United States is currently investigating all possibilities of bringing the mullah-led regime into line, including military options. This 'all options are open' line has been President George W Bush's publicly stated policy throughout the past 18 months."

An examination of the ramifications of such an attack is desperately in order.

1. Blowback in Iraq

The recent elections in Iraq were dominated by an amalgam of religiously fundamentalist Shi'ite organizations, principally the Dawa Party and the Supreme Council for Islamic Revolution in Iraq (SCIRI). Both Dawa and SCIRI have umbilical connections to the fundamentalist Shi'ite leadership in Iran that go back decades. In essence, Iran now owns a significant portion of the Iraqi government.

Should the United States undertake military action against Iran, the ramifications in Iraq would be immediate and extreme.

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liberal N proud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-09-06 08:36 PM
Response to Original message
1. Iran = WW III
The world will not allow the United States to attack Iran.
Not that bu$h would bother to consider this and will most likely move the US in that direction.
We are doomed if it happens.
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Oversea Visitor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-09-06 08:42 PM
Response to Original message
2. bush sowing the seed of terror
US to reap the fruits
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bananas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-09-06 09:04 PM
Response to Original message
3. Looks like Will is changing his mind

Is any of this a probability? Logic says no, but logic seldom plays any part in modern American politics. All arguments that the Bush administration would be insane to attack Iran and risk a global conflagration for the sake of political cover run into one unavoidable truth.
They did it once already in Iraq.

Not long ago, he didn't believe Bush would bomb Iran.
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leveymg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-09-06 09:24 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. 2003 was a long time ago. Another world.
There's no way that the Generals will go along with Iraq times ten. They understand better than anyone the potential for US casualties, the loss of US prestige and readiness, and the very real danger that the US might lose a war with Iran militarily unless we went nuclear.

Bush and his aides may be nuts, but the Joint Chiefs of Staff aren't. The senior career people at CIA and DIA, as well, just aren't going to let the country go through sort of thing again. They're patriots with some very deep resources.

The war drum we've been hearing is a covering action -- a deception campaign -- designed to keep Iran somewhat off-balance while US forces are withdrawn from Iraq.
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bananas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-09-06 09:45 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. And then what?
The war drum we've been hearing is a covering action -- a deception campaign -- designed to keep Iran somewhat off-balance while US forces are withdrawn from Iraq.

I'm interested in your opinion - what do you think happens after we withdraw from Iraq?
Keep Iran off-balance for what?
What will Bush do for the next 3 years?
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leveymg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-10-06 10:39 AM
Response to Reply #5
10. There's: 1) What should be done; and, 2) What will most likely happen
In that order:

1) What Should Be Done

Okay, Kevin. The Dems can't just call for immediate, unilateral withdrawal - remember that phrase? I do -- and we can't just follow BushCo's footprints further into the bog than we've already sunk. So, what's the alternative Party line?

Here's an optional course -- call it the Democratic A-B-C plan for Iraq -- that needs to be spelled out clearly to the American people:

A) First, regime change in Washington. The Dem leadership needs to be pushing for expanded Grand Juries -- prosecute Iraq-related crimes at all levels of this Administration and its foreign and domestic confederates (war crimes, procurement fraud, perjury, espionage, forgery, lying to Congress, unregistered lobbying, etc.) followed by impeachment of the President and Veep.

After we've cleaned house and restored the rule of law at home, we can proceed to:

B) confront the problems of a transition to a reasonably democratic order in Iraq. That will require the regionalization and UN-ization of peacekeeping. Nobody's going to cooperate with us until the execution of A), the political and legal war on the homefront, is won. Otherwise, we'll continue to be spurned as the rogue superpower we've become under BushCo.

C) Enforce the Pottery Barn rule. Make those who've realized illicit gains pay for the reconstruction of Iraq, and the replacement of U.S. property -- military equipment and supplies -- lost there. Compensate the victims, Iraqi and American. Funds for that may be realized from triple civil penalties under RICO, the liquidation of offending contracting companies, and the seizure of the assets of their executives and principal shareholders.

The A-B-C plan above is just a starting point for discussion, of course. There must be other creative ideas for distinguishing ourselves from the Republicans out there.

Posted by: Mark G. Levey on August 18, 2005 at 12:41 PM | PERMALINK

2) What Will Most Likely Happen

Iraq will be divided into three ethnically-cleansed sectors: the oil-rich, compliant Kurdish north; the Shia south (Iran's new western border province); with a DMZ between (a depopulated Sunni wasteland). The Kurds will agree to the terms the multinational oil companies set, as they fear the Turks and require US and EU protection. This trifurcation of Iraq (an artificial construct, anyway) is the easily-foreseen outcome.

3) The Longer-term Impact on the U.S. - the Iraq War Broke the Last Superpower

Has Bush Made Another War Impossible?
by leveymg
Thu Jun 23, 2005 at 03:26:57 AM PDT

Look back over the last 100 years of expansions and contractions, and you'll see that major wars have generally come at a time when the economy needed stimulation following a collapsed expansion.

After five years of colossal mismanagement, the US economy may be so sick that the usual medicine would kill the patient. Ironically, George W. Bush may be the President who kept America out of another major war.

leveymg's diary :: ::
In any prolonged recession, money tends to safe harbour in land, bonds, and utilities. Wars shift investment away from stagnant "old economy" sectors and into newer, higher-risk growth sectors (technology, aerospace, synthetic materials, precision engineering, biomedicine) that would otherwise be undercapitalized. The huge public war debts also stimulate the financial sector, and generally interest rates are allowed to rise at the end of the war.

The pattern of the 20th century was that the end of both world wars saw a short recession -- high interest rates and unemployment --followed by a decade-long expansion as new technologies and processes were shifted from military to civilian applications. That also happened after the end of the Cold War. In all cases, however, once that technology-driven expansion runs out of steam, the American economy has plunged into Depression or a serious stagflating recession, which is what has again started to occur.

The problem with the cyclical process today is that interest rates have been artificially suppressed, capital is still locked in "safe harbour" which has resulted in a major real estate bubble, public debt is at an historic post-war high, but there is no real new technological innovation that might stimulate industrial expansion and job creation. Outsourcing has also cut into disposable consumer income which is increasingly dependent on rising personal debt load.

This is a macroeconomic disaster which is being barely averted by huge government spending on the military and "homeland security". The growth in public spending -- $300 billion on Iraq operations alone --is simply unsustainable. There are no good alternatives available. An expanded war in the Middle East or Asia, or another major terrorist event, would have a catastrophic impact on consumer and market confidence. In order to finance and manage a real jump in military spending, the US would have to re-regulate the entire economy. Taxes and saving would have to jump dramatically. Public confidence in national leaders is at an historical low.

Under these circumstances, we are not about to be lock-stepped into invading Iran. Syria doesn't really have anything of value to the U.S. For those looking to loot, they would have to look elsewhere. Is Saudi Arabia the prize? But, our leaders have to ask themselves: do not the Saudis, or their proxies, really have nuclear weapons at their disposal and a "doomsday plan" to use them?

For the first time in a century, war is not a viable economic option for the United States. As America reaches its imperial tipping point, we simply have more to lose than to gain from the outbreak of wider hostilities. We are out on cracking limb with nothing to grab onto but thin air and each other . . .

This regime is about to change.

Mark




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UpInArms Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-09-06 11:59 PM
Response to Reply #4
6. here's a Rumsfeld quote from 2001
Donald Rumsfeld, Secretary of Defence:
"What is victory? I say victory is persuading the American people and the
rest of the world that this is not a quick matter that will be over in a
month or a year or even 5 years. It is something we need to do so that we
can continue to live in a world with powerful weapons and with people who
are willing to use those powerful weapons. And we can do that. That would be a
victory in my opinion." Dec. 2001
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bananas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-10-06 02:14 AM
Response to Reply #6
7. What the fuck was he talking about?
Do you have a link or some context for that?
That is the most insane thing I have ever heard.
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UpInArms Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-10-06 08:37 AM
Response to Reply #7
9. on January 11, 2002 a friend of mine sent me
an email - she had seen Rumsfeld speaking on CSPAN and had taped the program (I don't know exactly what she was watching) here is the text of the email I received:

I could hardly believe my ears when I heard Rumsfeld say this.....I rewound
the video over and over to get the exact words.......finally someone stupid
enough to tell the truth....but did anyone hear it? I bet this was not on
the evening news....


Donald Rumsfeld, Secretary of Defence:
"What is victory? I say victory is persuading the American people and the
rest of the world that this is not a quick matter that will be over in a
month or a year or even 5 years. It is something we need to do so that we
can continue to live in a world with powerful weapons and with people who
are willing to use those powerful weapons. And we can do that. That would be a
victory in my opinion." Dec. 2001


All Americans must ask themselves: is this the kind of world we want to live
in? A world in perpetual war? Is this the American dream we love and
cherish?

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bananas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-10-06 06:13 PM
Response to Reply #9
12. Interesting
I googled the phrase "I say victory is persuading the American people"
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=%22I+say+victory+is+persuading+the+American+people%22&btnG=Google+Search
couldn't find a transcript anywhere containing that phrase,
but the quote was used by the town of Brookline MA in a resolution opposing the Iraq war
(I've tried pasting the link to google's "View as HTML" version of the pdf,
but the DU software mangles it)

REPORTS OF SELECTMEN AND ADVISORY COMMITTEE SPECIAL TOWN MEETING
File Format: PDF/Adobe Acrobat - View as HTML
“I say victory is persuading the American people and the rest of the world that.
this is not a quick matter that is going to be over in a month or a year, ...
www.townofbrooklinemass.com/tmm/PDFs/111202TM/111302SPECIALTOWNMEETINGREPORT.pdf - Similar pages


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katty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-10-06 02:41 PM
Response to Reply #4
11. let's hope the drumbeat for Iran is ONLY a cover
bush has had some setbacks, especially last year-but setbacks do not appear to deter him-setbacks are not enough as long bush&co are still in charge of the military. I pray the Joint Chiefs have a master plan to stop the insanity of this admin.
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OneBlueSky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-10-06 02:39 AM
Response to Original message
8. bottom line = they're insane . . . n/t
.
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