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Synnical Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-06-06 09:24 PM
Original message
Why Can't Muslims Take a Joke? (Not a Funny)
Please don't flame me. I'm just posting the article. I think this is an Op-Ed piece, so I'm thinking the four paragraph rule does not apply. Mods, correct me if I'm wrong. Thanks.

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Middle_East/HB07Ak02.html

Why can't Muslims take a joke?
By Spengler

Religious humor has become commonplace in the secular West, but it came with a price.

More than any people on Earth, the Danes should know the terrible price of religious humor, for the first great Christian humorist arose from their dour midst as if by immaculate conception. "Humor is intrinsic to Christianity," wrote Soren Kierkegaard, because "truth is hidden in mystery". But Kierkegaard the humorist was sent to the Danes after the Enlightenment had laid waste to Christianity, that is, after the French revolutionary army had conquered traditional Europe. He wielded humor out of desperation, after Denmark already had started down its long slide toward secularism.

<snip>

Deprecatory cartoons of Jesus would have earned you the dungeon or the stake during most of Christianity's 2,000-year history. Britain still has not abolished the Blasphemous Libel Law against mockery of the Church of England, although the last Englishman punished for blasphemy was a certain William Gott, who received nine months' imprisonment in 1922 for comparing Jesus to a circus clown.

<snip>

With freedom of choice and access to information come doubt. Western scholars doubt whether Mohammed ever existed <2> or, if he existed, whether the Koran was invented two centuries after his death, or indeed whether the Koran even was written in Arabic. Christianity and Judaism are bloodied - indeed, drained almost dry - by nearly two centuries of scriptural criticism; Islam's turn barely has begun.

More revealing than the refusal of the mainstream American media to repost the Mohammed cartoons is the disappearance of more dangerous material previously available. Newsweek's "Challenging the Koran" story of July 28, 2003, has vanished from the magazine's website. The government of Pakistan had banned that issue, which among other things reported a German philologist's contention that the Koran was written in Syriac rather than classical Arabic, translating the "virgins" of Paradise as "raisins". As I observed before, the topic of Koranic criticism has disappeared from the mainstream media. Since the suppression of the Newsweek story the Western media have steered clear of the subject.

<snip>

Muslims rage at affronts to their faith because the modern world puts their faith at risk, precisely as modern Islamists contend. <3> That is not a Muslim problem as such, for all faith is challenged as traditional society gives ground to globalization. But Muslim countries, whose traditional life shows a literacy rate of only 60%, face a century of religious deracination. Christianity and Judaism barely have adapted to the modern world; the Islamists believe with good reason that Islam cannot co-exist with modernism and propose to shut it out altogether.

<snip>

With stable institutions and material wealth, the secular West evinces a slow decline. Not so the Muslim world, where loss of faith implies sudden deracination and ruin. In the space of a generation, Islam must make an adjustment that Christianity made with great difficulty over half a millennium. Both for theological and social reasons, it is unequipped to do so. Muslims might as well fight over a cartoon now; they have very little to lose.


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Catch22Dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-06-06 09:28 PM
Response to Original message
1. I think anyone who takes religion this seriously...
Muslim, Christian, or any other, is terrifying. Yes, I said terrifying.
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MindPilot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-06-06 09:39 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. Are you talking about fundies or the author?
I'm guessing the fundies. In which case I agree; and this piece is a very succinct summation of the situation. (Was that some nice alliteration or what?)

I'm finding around my workplace that the bush voters seem to be on the side of the Muslims on this one. Don't criticize religion, even if it's the one we are at war with.
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Catch22Dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-06-06 09:50 PM
Response to Reply #3
5. My apologies, I was strictly speaking of fundies
Not the author or the OP.
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qwlauren35 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-07-06 06:58 PM
Response to Reply #1
12. Oh, I don't know...
I generally find that when humor occurs WITHIN a group, it's acceptable. When it comes from the outside, I think it is often rightly seen as an attack. There are plenty of people who couch attacks within the guise of humor, to make it more palatable. But it is still an attack.

I am not Christian, but I think the idea of likening Jesus of Nazereth to a circus clown is in poor taste. A cartoon or joke about Jesus and Mary Magdalene "doin' the nasty" would offend a LOT of people.

It saddens me when there is no such thing as respect when it comes to other cultures. It is very real that we live in a country in which people who embrace Biblical Christian values, including those prohibiting things that are legally acceptable, are mocked, ridiculed and vilified by those who choose not to embrace those values.

So, given how we treat fellow Americans who are Christian, it doesn't surprise me that we are seeing disrespect toward Muslims.

However, I will always believe that it is best to let a culture develop its own humor than to create reasons to laugh at something which differs from us.


On top of this, I would add. We all KNOW that the Muslim world is going through a volatile, turbulent period in its history. Why would ANY public medium want to fan the flames with messages that poke fun... and can catalyze additional violence? I was never in favor of Bush's "War on Terror", but the more it looks like a "War Against Islam", the less I can appreciate humor around an area where we are "technically" at war.

Why do we constantly give Muslims a reason to hate? Why can't we just leave them alone???

Signed,

The last of the Naive Children in the Democratic Underground



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Igel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-09-06 01:07 PM
Response to Reply #1
15. I was a fundie, took my religion seriously,
and yet could take a joke. Or even criticism.

What I required was tolerance for my observing of my religion. It wasn't a problem that I took my religious seriously, or that others didn't. If I needed time off for observing a holy day, or refused to eat shrimp, I hoped that people would tolerate it. I didn't expect encouragement. And I expected people to view it a bit strange at times.

It would have been a problem had I insisted that others took my religion seriously. A serious problem. And it would have been even worse if I insisted others took my religion even more seriously than others did that claimed to have the same religion.
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democracyindanger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-06-06 09:34 PM
Response to Original message
2. Yeah. A joke.
Like when Ann Coulter makes some outrageous racist remark or slander against liberals and when confronted, says, "It's just a joke."
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MindPilot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-06-06 09:43 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. Yeah but the big difference is she actually threatens violence
and we don't start a riot and set fire to buildings over it.

Why should any religion be immune to criticism especially if that criticism comes in the form of humor?
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democracyindanger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-06-06 09:57 PM
Response to Reply #4
6. You do know
that this started 5 months ago, right?

That the Danish government ignored the complaints of Danish Muslims, and refused to meet with ambassadors from Muslim countries? That anybody with half a brain could predict that their snubs would play directly into the hands of the extremists?

Good grief.
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MindPilot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-07-06 07:14 AM
Response to Reply #6
11. Yes, I do know that, and we have been through those arguments
ad nauseum. It is not the responsibility of the Danish government--or any government for that matter--to appease religious extremists.
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rfkrfk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-06-06 10:01 PM
Response to Original message
7. Muslims, just following orders
the word 'Islam' is often translated as 'submission'.

when your religious leader tells you to riot, you riot
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Sarah Ibarruri Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-06-06 10:14 PM
Response to Original message
8. All you have to do is look at their countries....
What kind of freedoms do they have? How much equality do women and kids have? How are gays treated? How are people of dark skin treated? How is dissent treated?
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kaygore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-06-06 10:16 PM
Response to Original message
9. For the same reason our "religious" right can't
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zippy890 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-07-06 05:14 AM
Response to Original message
10. good article, well researched
Edited on Tue Feb-07-06 05:14 AM by zippy890
and one of the answers is : ignorance

"Most members of religious groups adhere to their beliefs because they were born into a faith and learned no other way to live. Traditional society admits of no heresy or atheism because religion governs the socialization of individuals.

We observe a close statistical relationship between literacy and the percentage of non-religious people in a population in the cross-section of countries.

Once the literacy rate reaches 90%, the percentage of non-religious jumps into two digits. That is as true for Muslim countries as well as for non-Muslim countries. Because the Muslim literacy rate is so far below the average, though, few Muslim countries have a high proportion of non-religious people"
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Synnical Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-07-06 10:32 PM
Response to Reply #10
13. I thought so, too
Made me think and I like that. :)
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barb162 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-07-06 11:21 PM
Response to Original message
14. Spengler is a pretty smart guy
whenever I have read his stuff I have been favorably impressed,whether I agree with every sentence or not. But I agree with him on most of his commentary here and especially when he elevates freedom of the press over religion!
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