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TIME: Has the Meltdown Begun?

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RedEarth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-19-06 08:28 PM
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TIME: Has the Meltdown Begun?
Has the Meltdown Begun?
The discovery that Greenland's glaciers are melting faster than anyone expected has experts worried anew about how high the seas will rise
By MICHAEL D. LEMONICK

The usual argument put forth by global-warming skeptics for why we shouldn't rush to do anything yet is that the science behind climate change is uncertain--and in fact it is. While there's little doubt that humans are helping heat up the planet, the questions of how much, how quickly and leading to what consequences are fiendishly difficult to pin down. That's because the actual climate is still far more complicated than any existing computer model can accurately reflect, making predictions iffy at best. Some natural processes nobody has yet thought of could end up blunting the severest impact of global warming.

Or, conversely, they could make the impact even worse than expected. And according to a study that sent tremors through the scientific community last week, that is exactly what seems to be happening in Greenland. Glaciers that flow toward the ocean in the southern half of that enormous frozen island are among the world's fastest moving, and their massive outpouring of ice now contributes fully a sixth of the annual rise in sea level. According to a study in the current issue of Science, they have nearly doubled their rate of flow over the past five years, to about 8 miles a year, dumping icebergs and meltwater into the already rising ocean faster than anyone expected. "In 1996 Greenland was losing about 100 cu km of ice per year," says Eric Rignot of NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory, lead author of the study, which he presented at last week's meeting of the American Association for the Advancement of Science in St. Louis, Mo. "This year it will lose more than twice as much." By comparison, he says, in 1996 Greenland dumped 90 times as much water into the sea as Los Angeles consumed; last year it was up to 225 times. "In the next 10 years," says Rignot, "it wouldn't surprise me if the rate doubled again."

No computer climate model anticipated that increase, which means that all current predictions about how much sea level could rise--the latest U.N. report estimated it at a half-meter (about 1.5 ft.) by the end of the century--are too low and will have to be revised upward. Greenland's ice cap covers more than 650,000 sq. mi. and in places stands nearly 2 miles thick. "If it all melted or otherwise slid into the ocean, sea level would rise by 20 ft. or so," says Michael Oppenheimer, a professor of geosciences and international affairs at Princeton. Under conventional global-warming scenarios, that will eventually happen--but over a period of several thousand years. The new study suggests that it could happen in a few hundred years. "That's a few feet per century," says Oppenheimer, "which may not sound like a lot, but it's more than society can handle. In places like the Eastern seaboard of the U.S., a 1-ft. vertical rise in sea level means a 100-ft. retreat of shoreline." In low-lying countries like Bangladesh, the resulting flooding could dwarf the 2004 tsunami.

What jump-started the glaciers' outflow isn't precisely clear, but scientists point to two likely triggers. The first, says Julian Dowdeswell of the Scott Polar Research Institute at the University of Cambridge, is the breakup of ice "tongues" that reach out into the sea at the glaciers' leading edges. It's likely, he says, that removing that barrier allowed the glaciers to flow more freely. The second is that ice on the glaciers' surfaces has melted at a record rate in two of the past four years. "Some of that water," says Dowdeswell, "presumably percolates down through crevasses," lubricating the soft sediments at the base of the glaciers and allowing the huge ice floes to slip more quickly to the sea.

What's even more ominous than the speedup is the fact that it's spreading northward. Between 1996 and 2000, says Rignot, glaciers started accelerating, but only up to the 66th parallel. Over the next five years, the speedup moved north to the 70th. "If it spreads even further north," says Dowdeswell, "the implications are that much greater."

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/printout/0,8816,1161231,00.html
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Boomer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-19-06 08:38 PM
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1. And the clock is ticking....
Nominated.
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rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-19-06 08:39 PM
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2. it is past time that we have a leader in the WH addressing the enviroment
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tsuki Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-19-06 08:54 PM
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3. But, but, but...
Bush consulted with fiction novelist and fiction weather forecaster, Michael Crichton, and they agreed. It ain't so.:sarcasm:
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AwakeAtLast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-19-06 09:01 PM
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4. The report tonight on "60 Minutes" was just as damning
To see what those polar bears are going through :cry: :cry: :cry:

I was pretty much depressed after seeing it. :(
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serryjw Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-19-06 09:21 PM
Response to Reply #4
7. Ohhhhhhhh, I saw it
I was on the way over to 60 minutes to see if I can get a free transcript. I was so sad after seeing what they are going through and it's only going to get worse. There are times when I miss not having car...then I watch something like this.
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Gloria Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-19-06 09:15 PM
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5. When I saw the title I thought it might be about BUSHCO....
one can dream, right???
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oscarguy Donating Member (320 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-19-06 09:21 PM
Response to Original message
6. And this may also trigger a" glaciation period ". By disrupting the Gulf...
Stream there is the very real possibility a new Ice Age may be triggered. Many articles have been written about this possible eventuality. There is evidence that a momentary meltdown is what triggers so called " Ice ages ". Either way we are possibly in for some very unhappy times. ...Oscar
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EuroObserver Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-20-06 02:24 PM
Response to Reply #6
16. We reckon that's the likely scenario
Edited on Mon Feb-20-06 02:24 PM by EuroObserver
here in W. Europe :-(

ed. And it's happening FAST.
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oscarguy Donating Member (320 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-21-06 09:37 AM
Response to Reply #16
17. I have been reading of unusually severe winters in Europe, and that would
fit with this scenario. The winters have been worse than usual in the American Northeat also, wich also fits. ...Oscar
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Gregorian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-19-06 09:39 PM
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8. I just saw Al Gore's speech on global warming.
Edited on Sun Feb-19-06 09:42 PM by Gregorian
It is the single scariest thing I've ever seen on tv. And I am not easy to frighten. Everyone should see it. Linktv is probably the only place you'll see it. And Al Gore is nothing short of brilliant.

The difinitive data is the CO2 concentration in ice samples from as long back as 400,000 years. Ice shelves that were supposed to last another century completely melted in one month.

Tonight I look at life as temporary.

Of course, noone is talking about the real issue. Population. So we might as well enjoy things as they melt. Because as long as the population continues to grow, nothing we talk about or do will make a dent in the global warming. Well, that is if we continue to live modern lives. But who's going to be the first to take cold showers? Or stop driving? Or doing everything for themselves that corporations do for us. Like making soap, or clothing, or raising crops or animals? Or stop using modern medicines?

Maybe this planet is nothing more than temporary. And maybe time is up.
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adnelson60087 Donating Member (661 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-19-06 09:54 PM
Response to Original message
9. I am teaching Molecular Compounds (like water and carbon dioxide)
in my Chemistry classes and will be showing the NOW clip regarding global warming and the 60 Minutes segment from tonight. I want my high school kids to understand how we all impact the Earth's systems by our decisions. I encourage the kids to be skeptical, and ask questions so hopefully they will do the same outside my classroom.

Damnation, this stuff is going to eventually change the planet in some scary ways. I wonder how Reich Limbaugh and Bull-crap O'Lielly will spin these new facts as part of a global-scientific-anti-American-conspiracy.
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Clara T Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-19-06 10:05 PM
Response to Original message
10. Warming hits 'tipping point'
Warming hits 'tipping point'

Siberia feels the heat It's a frozen peat bog the size of France and Germany combined, contains billions of tonnes of greenhouse gas and, for the first time since the ice age, it is melting

Ian Sample, science correspondent
Thursday August 11, 2005
The Guardian


A vast expanse of western Sibera is undergoing an unprecedented thaw that could dramatically increase the rate of global warming, climate scientists warn today. Researchers who have recently returned from the region found that an area of permafrost spanning a million square kilometres - the size of France and Germany combined - has started to melt for the first time since it formed 11,000 years ago at the end of the last ice age. The area, which covers the entire sub-Arctic region of western Siberia, is the world's largest frozen peat bog and scientists fear that as it thaws, it will release billions of tonnes of methane, a greenhouse gas 20 times more potent than carbon dioxide, into the atmosphere.

It is a scenario climate scientists have feared since first identifying "tipping points" - delicate thresholds where a slight rise in the Earth's temperature can cause a dramatic change in the environment that itself triggers a far greater increase in global temperatures. The discovery was made by Sergei Kirpotin at Tomsk State University in western Siberia and Judith Marquand at Oxford University and is reported in New Scientist today.
The researchers found that what was until recently a barren expanse of frozen peat is turning into a broken landscape of mud and lakes, some more than a kilometre across.

Dr Kirpotin told the magazine the situation was an "ecological landslide that is probably irreversible and is undoubtedly connected to climatic warming". He added that the thaw had probably begun in the past three or four years. Climate scientists yesterday reacted with alarm to the finding, and warned that predictions of future global temperatures would have to be revised upwards.

"When you start messing around with these natural systems, you can end up in situations where it's unstoppable. There are no brakes you can apply," said David Viner, a senior scientist at the Climatic Research Unit at the University of East Anglia.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/climatechange/story/0,,1546824,00.html

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yurbud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-19-06 10:35 PM
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11. Damn! I thought it meant White House meltdown!
Corporate media won't admit that exists for about as long as right wing media denied global warming.
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progressoid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-19-06 10:51 PM
Response to Original message
12. "We have only one world to play with."
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juliana24 Donating Member (209 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-19-06 11:37 PM
Response to Reply #12
13. Waterworld!! Costner was right !!
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argyl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-20-06 01:07 AM
Response to Original message
14. F**k you,Smirk ,for stealing the presidency from the man who would be
working his heart out to do what he could to at least lessen this coming catastrophe.He'd be listening to our best and brightest scientists,not strongarming them into not raining on his little fantasy world. This silly,mediocre little man is literally sticking his fingers in his ears and refusing to listen to reason.

Yeah, there are a lot of questions about global warming among scientists of integrity(translated:not in the pocket of Big Oil.)Unfortunately, the questions are not about if but rather when and each new revision is more drastic than the last.
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druidity33 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-20-06 09:04 AM
Response to Original message
15. doom and gloom...


This is big enough that I want to see all countries working together to cull the "freshwater" that is already running off the glaciers and affecting the salinity/density(?) of our oceans to help alleviate water shortages in other parts of the world. They could use geothermal power to do this (lots of it near greenland/up north)... and maybe while they're at it they could devise a way to curve the ice (parabolics?) to better reflect the sun... freeze bridges of ice to create new "tongues"...

As a nation we should be pouring all of our money and time into devising methods for renewable/eco-effective energy... Challenging Universities and Research departments to solve the problems the government doesn't seem to want to. Bio-Regional, Sustainable Communities, Building Local Economies... plant seeds.

I hope someday our politicians can recognize that something will need to be done by them to help alleviate the suffering that is bound to occur when the first MAJOR crop failures hit the US. I was truly, deeply disappointed when Gore did not win... because i knew then that the environment, our Earth, would continue to be raped and pillaged by *co from every direction that profit could be gained... at the expense of thousands perhaps many more lives.


Things will be different... a change will occur that is monumental, though i'm afraid by the time people truly realize it, it will be far too late to turn back. At the same time, i am hopeful that the crash and fall of our oil economy will help us to reshape our priorities as a nation. And i hope that the Democratic party's wins in '06 and '08 will help to bring about this shift. I see Al as the head of the EPA sometime soon... with enforcement laws that have TEETH.

boyscout motto:
be prepared
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