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papau Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-07-06 06:31 PM
Original message
A Conversation With Mark Crispin Miller
THIS IS VERY LONG - 8300 WORDS INCLUDING COMMENTS - BUT WORTH A READ IN MY OPINION.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/bob-cesca/a-conversation-with-mark-_b_12134.html

A Conversation With Mark Crispin Miller (37 comments )


(INTRO TO INTERVIEW: The 2004 election has receded in our memories under the weight of countless other events of the past year. But the lessons of what happened in Ohio and elsewhere should always be a point of debate in this country as they cut directly to our very basic right as citizens: the right to hold our leaders accountable with our vote.


The highly questionable results of 2004's presidential election felt all too familiar, harking back to the 2002 midterm and, of course, the 2000 election debacle. The outcome in all three instances swayed heavily in the favor of Republicans, yet the call for fair and transparent elections shouldn't be a partisan issue. Speaking for myself, I don't care whether the results favored Republicans or Democrats or Greens or Libertarians. If there appears to be election theft occurring, be it via electronic voting machines without paper trails or via back-room deals with Supreme Court justices, it's a subversion of our rights and our Constitution and the leaders elected via these illegal processes are illegitimate.

In Reading, Pennsylvania, for example, the Green Party is contesting the results of a city council election last month in which a Democrat won by a margin of 606-560 (Reading Eagle, Friday 12/09/05). The Greens discovered that around 22 voters signed in under false names and cast votes for the Democratic candidate. The upshot is that Mark Scott, our Republican county commissioner, has agreed with and sanctioned the Green's petition for an investigation. Should we accuse the Greens of being "sour grapes"? Of course not (the Greens know the 22 votes won't affect the outcome). Progressives stand for accountability -- for all politicians. Not just the ones whose brothers command battleground states and those who go hunting with Supreme Court justices.

Mark Crispin Miller has been at the forefront of watchdogging the Republican leadership for years and has recently released a new book titled Fooled Again: How the Right Stole the 2004 Election & Why They'll Steal the Next One Too. If you've read his previous works, The Bush Dyslexicon and Cruel and Unusual, you know that Miller never walks the easy path towards proving his theories. Fooled Again is no exception. It's brilliantly written -- of course. But it also manages to organize and draw together the litany of inconsistencies; the myriad of suspicious deals, methods, and results which were largely ignored by the mainstream media -- and even the losing ticket -- in the days leading up to and through the election.

I had an opportunity to chat with Miller via e-mail regarding his book, the campaign, the Christian right, and why all sides don't take a more active role in guaranteeing fair elections.)
========================================================================
BOB CESCA: Last month, John Kerry denied your report that he felt the 2004 election was stolen. First, what's your reaction to his denial? It seems to me as if Kerry has an opportunity to reform the voting system as a public servant fresh from the trenches and very battle-scarred, but he won't stand up for fear of being accused of something as trivial and historically irrelevant as "sour grapes". How many more questionable elections will it take before candidates and leaders like Kerry set aside their concerns over being accused of "sour grapes" and actually put democracy and the good of the nation first?

MARK CRISPIN MILLER: The answer, my friend, is blowin' in the wind.

I'm not kidding. The answer isn't clear, since what we're dealing with is an irrational refusal to confront, or even to perceive, a clear and present danger to American democracy. We're dealing, finally, with denial. Kerry's move -- "I did not discuss the last election with that man" -- may seem to have been merely prudent, cautious, self-protective, but it was actually insane. Kerry clearly thinks that he will run for president again. Now, let's pretend, just for the sake of argument, that any Democrats outside of his own family would support him after his abrupt concession on Nov. 3, 2004. Let's pretend that he could once again be nominated, and then run, again, in 2008. Let's assume as well that he would win (again). Why does he assume that the Republicans would not subvert that victory too? Does he think the system will perform correctly if it hasn't been reformed? Or does he plan to call for its reform? If so, when? If he wouldn't talk about it back when he was first ripped off, and if he still won't talk about it now, how could he then begin to talk about it as a candidate? The man is obviously out to lunch.

But this is not just about Kerry. As he himself told me quite frankly on Oct. 28 (and that discussion was not off the record), none of his colleagues on the Hill will talk about this all-important issue. The Democrats, with very few exceptions, suffer from the same affliction that prevents him from doing what must be done.

This, I think, is why the DNC released that fatuous report last summer, pointedly insisting that there was no election fraud committed in Ohio in 2004. Through that document they tried to put as much daylight as possible between themselves and John Conyers, whose report the party ought to have embraced and publicized. Instead, they've tried to hush it up, like some distasteful family secret.

Why do they keep fleeing the issue? Unless the Democrats get into it, they'll simply vanish as a party, just as Paul Weyrich and Grover Norquist and Karl Rove intend. The reason why the Democrats avoid the issue, even though the party's very existence is at stake, appears to be a bone-deep inability to face the very frightening implications
of what really happened in 2004. The Democrats don't want to know that the United States is clearly not a democratic country, or that the Bush Republicans are dangerous extremists, intent on building a one-party theocratic state-so that the opposition now must go beyond the usual horse-race strategizing, and get re-acquainted with this nation's revolutionary heritage. Which means, I reckon, that the opposition has to move beyond the Democratic Party.

And of course the Democrats don't want to go there. The problem is compounded by the press, which has consistently sidestepped the issue, or even ridiculed those who have tried to talk about it. And by "the press," I mean not just the likes of CNN and Newsweek and the New York Times, but even the left/liberal and progressive media, which, by and large, have also basically concurred with the Republicans in claiming that last year's election
was essentially legitimate. <SNIP>

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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-07-06 07:12 PM
Response to Original message
1. Been posted and dissected many times when it first came out.
Edited on Sat Oct-07-06 07:14 PM by blm
My take is that Miller tweaked his story a bit for radio drama, but the basic point was true and that Kerry''s office person was unnecessarily snarky and cutting and used the tweaked aspect to reject his overall story.

The greatest point is that Robert Parry interviewed Jon Winer and Winer does believe in machine fraud, and if he believes it Kerry believes it and believed it then. But there was absolutely no backup, they were still hoping for a whistleblower to come forward, and Dodd - the senate pointman on voting machines - was insisting it didn't happen back then.

But, now RFKs article has compiled what reasonable people need to understand what is going on. Even Dodd is now on board pretty much.


So - - why are you jazzed about this article now? The landscape has changed somewhat since then.
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papau Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-07-06 08:34 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. I thought the interview of interest because of the exposure it got via
Edited on Sat Oct-07-06 08:35 PM by papau
Huffington's web site.

Plus I was surprised to see no reference to the work done on the 04 exit poll that indicated the exit poll had too little data if we were hoping for informatiom from the stats about who stole the election, and how they stole it, but that the election data did show that if electronic machine hacking was involved, it was not done on a universal basis - that the machines appear to have given a correct count in many voting precints. All of which leads to the conclusion that only certain people, only certain GOPers, prevented/suppressed/did not count/or moved Dem votes to the GOP.

Granted he does mention the John Conyers report - and the DNC running away from that report

Consortiumnews http://www.consortiumnews.com/2005/110505.html does report on the electronic hacking belief held by Kerry (and myself) - but this is a dangerous area since claiming the exit polls show more than they do destroys all credibility.

The Princeton video voting is key - it shows how easy it is to answer the question "How do you hack the machine and leave no trace of what you have done"

http://itpolicy.princeton.edu/voting/

Security Analysis of the Diebold AccuVote-TS Voting Machine

http://itpolicy.princeton.edu/voting/videos.html

Hi-res video and downloads

Main demonstration video WMV http://coblitz.codeen.org:3125/itpolicy.princeton.edu/voting/videos/ts-voting.wmv

Uncut demo footage - closeup WMV http://coblitz.codeen.org:3125/itpolicy.princeton.edu/voting/videos/ts-closeup.wmv

Uncut demo footage - angle view WMV http://coblitz.codeen.org:3125/itpolicy.princeton.edu/voting/videos/ts-angle.wmv

If an overeager firewall is refusing you access to the videos, try this link instead:
Main demonstration video (Google Video) http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=8673726680080882009&hl=en

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