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VespertineIconoclast Donating Member (986 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-11-06 11:23 AM
Original message
Outsourcing: Beyond Bangalore
Companies are increasingly sending IT work to hubs outside India. They're saving money but facing a whole new raft of challenges

by Rachael King

After 10 months of working with software developers in Bangalore, India, Bill Wood was ready to call it quits. The local engineers would start a project, get a few months' experience, and then bolt for greener pastures, says the U.S.-based executive. Attrition rose to such a high level that year that Wood's company had to replace its entire staff, some positions more than once. "It did not work well at all," recalls Wood, vice-president of engineering at Ping Identity, a maker of Internet security software for corporations. Frustrated, Wood began searching for a partner outside India. He scoured 15 companies in 8 different countries, including Russia, Mexico, Argentina, and Vietnam.

That path is being trod by a lot of executives, eager for new sources of low-cost, high-tech talent outside India. Many are fed up with the outsourcing hub of Bangalore, where salaries for info tech staff are growing at 12% to 14% a year, turnover is increasing, and an influx of workers is straining city resources.

...

Yet many companies can't resist the lure of cheaper labor. "Ninety percent of all outsourcing deals in the market today have been structured around cost improvement only," says Linda Cohen, vice-president of sourcing research at consulting firm Gartner (IT). By the third year of an outsourcing deal, after all the costs have been squeezed out, companies get antsy to find a new locale with an even lower overhead.

...

The move reduces costs by 60% to 75%, Gett figures, letting Optaros offer competitive pricing to customers. "We're going to where the most cost-effective talent is in the world, but it has to be feasible," he says. "It can't be where there are economic, time zone, or language barriers." In fact, Gett needs his application developers to interact directly with customers in the U.S. and Western Europe, so he appreciates that Akela workers speak English and French and are closer to the Optaros Geneva office than workers in India would be.

...

Threat to U.S. Workers

And while a technically skilled global labor force is a boon to companies, the picture isn't so rosy for U.S. workers. Instead of competing with just India, now U.S. IT workers will need to go up against workers all over the world. In 2005, about 24% of North American companies used offshore providers to meet some of their software needs, according to Forrester Research (FORR). Over the next five years, spending on offshore IT services is set to increase at a compound annual growth rate of 18%, according to IDC.

The effect in the U.S. is that starting salaries in the engineering field—when adjusted for inflation—have stayed constant or decreased in the past five years or so, says Vivek Wadhwa, executive in residence at Duke University. "It doesn't make much sense to get into programming anymore," says Wadhwa, who worries that a lack of talent in certain industries, such as telecom, along with the outsourcing of research and development will erode U.S. competitiveness (see BusinessWeek.com, 11/7/06, "The Real Problem with Outsourcing"). But U.S. companies say that hiring programmers in India, who might make a fifth of what programmers do in the U.S., allows the companies to survive in a globally competitive economy.

...

<snip>

http://www.businessweek.com/technology/content/dec2006/tc20061207_164472.htm?campaign_id=bier_tcc.g3a.rssf1211a
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VegasWolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-11-06 11:26 AM
Response to Original message
1. With Bush's "leadership" of the economy, it will be cheap enough to
Edited on Mon Dec-11-06 11:28 AM by VegasWolf
outsource those outsourced Bangalore-American jobs to Texas within a few years.
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VespertineIconoclast Donating Member (986 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-11-06 11:42 AM
Response to Reply #1
3. And then * would be right...
By screwing over the US economy, American labor would then be cheap enough to be brought back to the US and thus, increasing the number of jobs thereby strengthening America! :sarcasm:
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melm00se Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-11-06 11:41 AM
Response to Original message
2. eventually
where salaries for info tech staff are growing at 12% to 14% a year, turnover is increasing, and an influx of workers is straining city resources.

these 3 things will increase to the point that it is:
1) not worth the trouble
2) makes financial sense (based upon the salary increases <5 years)
3) in the best interest of the local government to say "stop! we can't build fast enough to keep pace for things like utilities and other public services"

this happens in just abut every "hot" jobs market...growth happens up until the point that the seams start to strain and threaten to burst.
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VespertineIconoclast Donating Member (986 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-11-06 12:34 PM
Response to Reply #2
6. Exactly...
These companies like to feed the public bs like their actions help them to "survive in a globally competitive economy." But, when you link the outsourcing to things like this : http://money.cnn.com/2006/11/21/news/companies/ceo_raises_confboard/index.htm?postversion=2006112110 you see that this has little to do with survival in a competitive global market. The CEO want to continue to have the same or ideally larger profit margins so they can continue to stuff their pockets.
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sutz12 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-11-06 11:50 AM
Response to Original message
4. What? This can't be true...
You mean that the cheap labor we hired in India doesn't have any loyalty to the companies that hired them?

The ungrateful assholes. They should be happy to stay in low paying dead end jobs for the benefit of the company. After all, think of all the starving progammers in America.

Obviously, a company that laid off thousands of workers in America won't do the same thing in India, now will it?

:sarcasm:
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qwlauren35 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-11-06 12:28 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. This seems so similar...
To what played out with the car market. Once it's gone, it's not going to come back. All over the world, there will be groups of people who decide that if they can get enough technical know-how and a multi-lingual workforce, they can lure American businesses, who are willing to pay a salary that we think is meager, but can sustain several generations of a family.

Anyone who thinks those jobs are ever coming back to the US is nuts.

I think this is why I'm so torn about the minimum wage issue. I think it drives businesses off-shore. The only job opportunities which cannot be farmed out are those tied to personal services such as hospitality (hotels, spas, restaurants) and health care (doctors, nurses, hospital and nursing aids, blood analysts)... oh... and law enforcement, and prison management.

And I'm noticing that a lot of these jobs, especially those that pay less, are being filled with immigrants who know how to live on less.

Perhaps someone can tell me what the benefit is of the minimum wage increase. If it only impacts jobs that can't be shipped overseas, then I think it makes sense. But raising wages on any job that can be moved off-shore seems very counterproductive.
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VespertineIconoclast Donating Member (986 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-11-06 12:59 PM
Response to Reply #5
7. I do understand your perspective...
There are many benefits to increasing the minimum wage that are explained in detail here: http://www.epinet.org/content.cfm/issueguides_minwage In this particular issue, you seem to be more focused on how more companies would want to outsource rather than pay an American a higher salary and this could possibly occur if the legislation passes for the minimum wage increase. However, the salary increase is a necessary thing though because so many people barely make enough to make ends meet even after working 2 or more jobs sometimes.

I don't know all the legislation surrounding outsourcing, but I think that our government should have some laws in place that somehow penalize companies that outsource and give incentives to companies that stay within the US. If this could be coupled with the minimum wage increase legislation, that would be even better. But, I know that so many of our lawmakers are bedfellows with the companies that this will probably not occur....
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qwlauren35 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-12-06 09:04 AM
Response to Reply #7
8. Penalties...
I don't think we could penalize. But the incentives are old news.

It's usually at the state or county level, but most communities give MAJOR incentives in terms of tax breaks to businesses that bring a substantial number of jobs to a community.

Clearly just not good enough... ARGH.
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VespertineIconoclast Donating Member (986 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-12-06 09:52 AM
Response to Reply #8
9. Why not try to penalize?
Why not try to make it more difficult for the companies to outsource? Why do you think it could not be done? Do you think no effort should be made to try?

Yeah, they have incentives at the levels that you mentioned, but they may need to get larger somehow and I do agree that what is in place now is probably not enough.

But even if we do keep those jobs in the US by not raising the minimum wage, what good are they if the jobs don't pay enough for people to make a living? I personally think that it is unjust to think that people need to work several jobs just to have a enough money to take care of their basic needs -- food, clothing, shelter, etc. . You have many people struggling right now -- juggling two or more jobs, raising kids as best as they can, trying to keep themselves motivated enough to keep trudging on because they are the sole providers in their homes and if they don't keep going everything will fall apart....

So yes, raising a minimum wage hike may scare more businesses off shore, but that is the risk that must be taken to ensure that some people have the chance to thrive in this society without working themselves to the bone.
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