NYT: Talk in Class Turns to God, Setting Off Public Debate on Rights

[RamboLiberal]

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/12/18/nyregion/18kearny.html?_r=1&ei=5094&en=fa807250c191d8c8&hp=&ex=1166418000&oref=slogin&partner=homepage&pagewanted=print

Before David Paszkiewicz got to teach his accelerated 11th-grade history class about the United States Constitution this fall, he was accused of violating it.

Shortly after school began in September, the teacher told his sixth-period students at Kearny High School that evolution and the Big Bang were not scientific, that dinosaurs were aboard Noah’s ark, and that only Christians had a place in heaven, according to audio recordings made by a student whose family is now considering a lawsuit claiming Mr. Paszkiewicz broke the church-state boundary.

“If you reject his gift of salvation, then you know where you belong,” Mr. Paszkiewicz was recorded saying of Jesus. “He did everything in his power to make sure that you could go to heaven, so much so that he took your sins on his own body, suffered your pains for you, and he’s saying, ‘Please, accept me, believe.’ If you reject that, you belong in hell.”

The student, Matthew LaClair, said that he felt uncomfortable with Mr. Paszkiewicz’s statements in the first week, and taped eight classes starting Sept. 13 out of fear that officials would not believe the teacher had made the comments.

<snip>

In this tale of the teacher who preached in class and the pupil he offended, students and the larger community have mostly lined up with Mr. Paszkiewicz, not with Matthew, who has received a death threat handled by the police, as well as critical comments from classmates.

[NanceGreggs]

1. "Matthew, who has received a death threat ..."

So that's what you get from the followers of the Prince of Peace. I guess the teacher should ALSO have pointed out that murder will also land you in "hell" ...

[dchill]

2. Jesus Christ. n/t

[jeff30997]

3. That weirdo needs a good psychiatrist!

"dinosaurs were aboard Noah’s ark" :silly:

[Trajan]

4. The 'larger community' in Nazi germany ....

quietly supported the 'final solution' ...

Our freedom from religious indoctrination by the state may not be popular for the 'larger community', but it is freedom that lies at the core of secular society .... without it, the state can use it's overwhelming power to demand specific creedal beliefs .....

The student could have called this teacher/preacher out in front of the classroom and demanded historical support and intellectual rigor for his claims .... Show evidence of an Ark, a heaven or a god, or STFU ...

[Norquist Nemesis]

5. Imagine the tests!

T/F Evolution and the Big Bang are not scientific
T/F Dinosaurs were aboard Noah's Ark
T/F Only Christians have a place in heaven

The "Right"/wrong answers depend on the teacher's religious beliefs, not fact.

[flakey_foont]

8. Scary!

[Briar]

6. Looks like the enlightenment

has already been extinguished in that community. They've been brainwashed into accepting all that rubbish, and they're prepared to persecute anyone who challenges their weird beliefs.

"...the controversy here, 10 miles west of Manhattan, hinges on assertions Mr. Paszkiewicz made in class, including how a specific Muslim girl would go to hell."

How very Christian.

[Norquist Nemesis]

7. He sure played it safe on that one.

One has to wonder what reactions would have been if he had decided to aim his remarks at Jewish girl or boy instead of the Muslim girl.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

11. I'm surprised the girl's parents aren't up in arms

if any teacher told a child they would go to hell because of a belief, they are stigmatizing that child-if this community is as rwing as it appears, he could even have endangered the child because it is only a tiny step from "you're going to hell" to "and we'll help get you there."

[Warpy]

9. Too bad nobody was around to tell them my mother's favorite joke

A man who never believed in any gods had spent his entire life and fortune trying to help everyone around him and to make this world a better place. When he died and went to the next life, he was greeted by a welcoming spirit.

The welcoming spirit said, "We usually assign people to whatever heaven their religion has taught them to expect. What is your religion?"

The man answered, "Well, I never really thought about that stuff, I was too busy on earth. There was so much suffering around me and I wanted to make it all better."

The spirit said, "We'll check out the various heavens, then, and you can choose whichever one you find most pleasant."

They explored thousands of heavens, some Paradises modeled on ideal Earths, others places of light and bliss. Eventually they got to the last heaven and the spirit said, "This is the last heaven. I must warn you to say nothing about the others you have seen. The spirits here can't handle that information."

They went in and found an endless sky with blissful people reclining on clouds and singing. Once outside, the man asked, "That was a very pleasant place full of pleasant people. Why couldn't I tell them about the others?"

The spirit replied, "Those are the Christians. They think they're the only ones here."
--------------------------

I've circulated that joke around the globe. I'm sure my mother would be delighted.

[LongTomH]

14. Warpy, I heard a version of that joke from a Jewish friend.

Only in her version, it was Jews who thought they were the only people up there! She followed the rule: "Only hit on your own side!"

Actually, when I was growing up, I heard versions where the guy being shown around heaven came on a "Quiet! No Talking!" sign. At that point, St. Peter shushed him and started walking on tiptoe until they came to another sign: "Resume Normal Conversation."

After asking St. Pete: "What was that?" He was told: "Oh, that's just the Baptists. They think they're the only damn ones up here!"

I've heard other versions for Catholics, Mormons. You name the religion, there are members who think they're the only people worthy of admittance to the Pearly Gates.

[Warpy]

18. I told it to an online bud in central Asia who described himself

as a strict Shi'ite Muslim.

He mentioned later he'd spread it around saying the last group were the Muslims.

My mother would be delighted.

[NoodleyAppendage]

10. Yes, Virginia...There is a War on Christofascists. Time to go balls to the wall.

I'm SO SICK of these DUMBASS Christofascists teaching Dark Ages nonsense to our kids. If my kid is EVER exposed to this sort of bullsh*t, it won't take a heartbeat for me to bring a suit against the teacher and the school system for failing to weed out incompetent boobs.

J

[reprobate]

12. Believe only that which can be proved and the problem goes away.

Personally, if you believe in the old greybeard in the sky, or the great dish of spaghetti and meatballs, that's ok with me. But if you want to teach your beliefs as fact and base government action on it, you'd better be prepared to damn will PROVE that they are fact.

In the case at hand, the teacher not only cannot prove his assertions, there is not even ANY historical basis for his beliefs. The man should not be teaching history. Maybe comparative religion. But not even that, because he does not seem open enough to compare, just preach.

Bah, humbug on all the religious bigots in this nation. Europe has given up most of this garbage, but we pride ourselves as being a religious nation. I'd substitute shame for pride.

[Rex]

13. Wow, another nutball with a teaching certificate.

Doubly sad that he is 'teaching' history. Way to fuck with their minds! :sarcasm:

[jahyarain]

15. this is my reply to Kearny on the Web

i'm really just putting it here so i can have it on hand in my journal for the many times to come that this happens again. a template if you will. this is not directed at anyone here, yet.

let me break this down as simply as i can (since it is obviously necessary for some of you). no superstition...hmmm,hmmm...i mean RELIGION, has any place in the educational system. American children are already far enough behind without zealots such as this "teacher" spewing his hate and attempts at separation when they should be TEACHING. were there such thing as a hell, he will be there. however, the christian belief that God would create such a place is proof enough of how absent of God's Love christians have become. DEATH THREATS? To a 16 year old boy because he CONSTITUTIONALLY doesn't want to or HAVE to listen to this hateful, godless, man-made, fake GARBAGE? DEATH THREATS? REALLY? Jesus would be SOOOOOOO proud! and just for the record, i talked to Jesus the other day and he said, and i quote, "there's no way in hell i'm coming back for these people who preach all of this hate in my name". to which i could only reply, "i don't blame you, brother. i don't blame you". Peace...

...and GROW UP! <_<

[proud2BlibKansan]

16. !!

[Catfight]

17. I'm so F'kn sick of 'christians.' They're mean spirited a-holes. n/t

[proud2BlibKansan]

19. Yes they are!!

This is just beyond the pale. The teacher is very much in the wrong. But NEA defended him? What's up with that? And now the kid is getting death threats! Talk about hateful!!

[kskiska]

20. Just saw this kid on Anderson Cooper

He was very well-spoken and not smarmy the way the Freep kid was who recorded his teacher. He didn't have his dad with him, either.

[varun]

21. Mathew (student) was on CNN (Anderson Cooper)

Smart kid...they also played the recordings...

The school attorney is trying to suppress this case by arguing that opening up this case will cause further "divisions" and loss of teaching time.

[pokercat999]

22. My guess is that the students are learning more

from this case than they ever learned in this "history" class.

[alarimer]

23. I hate to see what "facts" he's teaching in history class

If he can't figure out what he's doing is wrong.