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Martin Eden Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-03-07 04:45 PM
Original message
Molly Ivins criticized in Chicago Trib LTTE, and my response
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/opinion/chi-0702030013feb03,0,3225951.story?coll=chi-newsopinionvoice-hed">This letter appeared in the Saturday Feb 3 Chicago Tribune. Here are some excerpts:

<<snip>>
For all of the mean-spirited vitriol Ivins heaped on fellow Texan Bush, let me pose the question: What would have Molly Ivins' response been to Sept. 11, 2001?

Would she have shown leadership by creating an agency to step up security in our airports and cities?

Or would she have sought to meet with Osama bin Laden and try to reason with him?

Would she have the courage to send troops to Afghanistan to root out the Taliban, or would she have assembled a blue-ribbon panel of liberal academics to ponder the problem?

Would she have waited until it was too late to verify that Saddam Hussein possessed weapons of mass destruction before taking action to protect America <<snip>>

Ah, but you see, that's the beauty of being a critic.

You're never accountable for your own actions, if you don't take any.

I spent this morning composing a response to this freeper, which I will send to him in the mail;


I’m writing to you under the assumption you are the person whose letter Ivins’ criticism was published in the Chicago Tribune on Saturday. I apologize in advance if you are not that person, or of you are and take personal offense at this reply to your letter, which requires a longer response than is likely to be printed in the newspaper.

I will begin by commenting on your closing statement “Ah, but you see, that’s the beauty of being a critic. You’re never accountable for your own actions, if you don’t take any.” What should be obvious here is that it is not the job of newspaper columnists to make decisions on foreign policy. Their job is to comment upon on the actions taken by our government, and they are indeed held accountable as are we all for the quality of our work. More importantly, the role of a free press and open dissent was recognized by our Founding Fathers as essential to preserving the liberties they established. It is appropriate to take issue with the ideas expressed by Molly Ivins, but it is entirely illogical to berate her for not taking or being held accountable for actions that are not her job.

This leads me to your question “What would have been Molly Ivins’ response to Sept 11, 2001?” Any answers to this or your other questions are highly speculative because neither you nor I can know what Molly Ivins would have done if she were in a position to make such decisions (which, of course, she wasn’t). I will not attempt to speak on her behalf, so I will speak on my own.

In regards to actions taken or not taken, George W. Bush essentially ignored the many warnings of an impending attack that were issued before Sept. 11, 2001. Richard Clarke, who served in national security roles under four presidents (3 Republican, 1 Democratic), repeatedly but unsuccessfully tried to get this administration to focus on the al Qaeda threat. It remains to be seen whether 9/11 could have been prevented, but it cannot be disputed that Bush failed to devote the resources the threat demanded.

In the wake of the attacks, I think any president of either party would have demanded the extradition of bin Laden and taken military action in Afghanistan when the Taliban refused. Unfortunately, much of the military action was left in the hands of the Afghan Northern Alliance and bin Laden was allowed to escape at Tora Bora when our agents on the ground called for but did not receive the forces to prevent it. The real shame is that Afghanistan is becoming a failed nation-building operation and the Taliban is making a comeback because our attention and resources were so quickly diverted elsewhere.

In your letter you ask “Would she have shown leadership by creating an agency to step up security in our airports and cities?” I think you should be aware that the Department of Homeland Security was proposed by Democrats and that Bush initially opposed it. You should also be aware that the 9/11 Commission has given the Bush administration mostly failing grades for failing to take recommended measures to improve security in our cities, ports, and other vulnerable targets.

Your question that really made my jaw drop was “Would she have waited until it was too late to verify that Saddam Hussein possessed weapons of mass destruction before taking action to protect America…?” If you recall, the UN weapons inspectors were readmitted to Iraq with access to every site in order to make that verification. If Saddam Hussein posed any kind of a threat it certainly wasn’t imminent with the inspectors present and the world’s greatest superpower poised to strike at the slightest provocation. Have you ever thought about why Bush would not give the inspectors the time they were requesting to complete their work? The inspection team was already coming to the conclusion that the extensive infrastructure required to produce nuclear weapons simply didn’t exist in Iraq, and before long they would also have determined that massive stockpiles of chemical and biological weapons didn’t exist either.

Given the fact that several key members of the Bush administration were advocating the invasion of Iraq long before 9/11, that the Downing Street Memo shows Bush had already made up his mind to invade by the summer of 2002, and that so many of their claims about WMD and ties to al Qaeda were disputed by experts within our government prior to the invasion, it seems to me that the real “imminent threat” was that the primary rationale for this war would have vanished along with the “mushroom clouds” we were told to fear.

Some of the facts you should consider:
• The CIA told the Bush administration that allegations of Saddam trying to purchase uranium in Niger were not reliable, but he used that claim anyway. The allegations were based on crudely forged documents.
• Our foremost experts on uranium enrichment reported that aluminum tubes purchased by Saddam were ill-suited for centrifuges, but Condoleeza Rice on national TV insisted they were “really only suited” for building nukes.
• The 2002 National Intelligence Estimate concluded there was no operational relationship between Saddam and al Qaeda, but Bush repeatedly made that connection when pushing his case for war.

These are far from the only documented examples in which the Bush administration cherry-picked, distorted, or ignored intelligence that did not support its predetermined decision to invade Iraq. I think this invasion was primarily about oil, Israel, and the misguided theory that we can transform the Middle East to our liking through the barrel of a gun. Even if, despite all the evidence, you choose to believe Bush was honestly mistaken about the threat posed by Iraq, can you for one minute deny that his decision and his management of this intervention has been a disaster for the United States and for Iraq?

At the cost of more than 3000 American lives and half a $trillion taxpayer dollars we have an Iraq that is widely acknowledged as a much greater terrorist threat now than before. We supported Saddam Hussein in the 1980’s because his secular regime was a bastion against the Shiite Islamic revolutionaries in Iran. Now Iraq’s Shiite majority is in power and Iran stands to be the big winner at our expense. The Sunni minority is engaged in a civil war against the Shiites and continues to mount a deadly insurgency against our troops. Jihadis have flocked to Iraq since the invasion, and the CIA’s National Intelligence Council reported that Iraq has become the recruiting and training ground for the next generation of professional terrorists.

In your letter you mentioned accountability. Shouldn’t the president of the United States be held accountable when his administration is responsible for this colossal strategic blunder at such terrible cost?

Well, Molly Ivins thought so, and she did her darndest to call George W. Bush to account. The Chicago Tribune, much to its credit, publishes columnists from both ends of the political spectrum. Opposing points of view are vital to our national debate, and strong dissent with our government’s actions remains an essential freedom.

I for one think Molly’s criticism of Bush was absolutely necessary, painfully true, packed with humor and wit, and right on target. And thankfully, I am far from alone. Her voice will be missed.


Sincerely,
name withheld for security reasons

P.S.
I would very much like to get a response from you, but in this day and age it is prudent to not divulge information regarding identity. I found your address by googling your name. Rest assured this is the only thing you will get from me.
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muntrv Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-03-07 04:49 PM
Response to Original message
1. Excellent.
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matt819 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-03-07 04:51 PM
Response to Original message
2. Not a good idea
Don't get into a pissing contest. You won't convince the original letter writer. Although the Chicago Tribune is not likely to print your response as an op-ed piece, it might nevertheless be worth a try. Tighten up the writing, clean up the formatting, play with it a bit more, and then give it a shot. At the same time, try to condense it into letter length and highlight the key points, and include that with your proposed op-ed piece.
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Martin Eden Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-03-07 05:07 PM
Response to Reply #2
7. I don't care if the letter writer won't be convinced
Sometimes I just need to speak my mind, and I didn't feel like shortening my response to this one. I deemed it very unlikely the Trib would print this at op/ed length. I just had a letter printed in mid-January, and there's usually a timeframe before they print another from the same writer.
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followthemoney Donating Member (745 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-03-07 11:22 PM
Response to Reply #2
29. Forget about the busy work. The Tribune are a bunch of Nazis. They wouldn't
publish Molly half the time. They censored Boondocks.
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SharonAnn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-04-07 05:02 PM
Response to Reply #2
34. Respond to the newspaper in LTTE. People need to see a response.
If yours is too long, and it is too long for a LTTE, then shorten it.

To have an effect, the response needs to be in the forum where the original letter appeared. Otherwise it has no effect, except that perhaps it makes you feel better.
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NanceGreggs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-03-07 04:56 PM
Response to Original message
3. EXCELLENT RESPONSE!!!
:applause:
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Martin Eden Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-03-07 05:09 PM
Response to Reply #3
9. Praise from you ...
... is high indeed:blush:
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NanceGreggs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-03-07 05:32 PM
Response to Reply #3
12. It is well-deserved praise indeed!
You responded to every point with facts and clarity of thought - the two things that always confuse people like this idiot.

Glad you responded -- because I FORGOT to RECOMMEND the first time around!

:kick:
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SCRUBDASHRUB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-03-07 04:58 PM
Response to Original message
4. I'd be careful sending something to him/her in the mail. You don't
Edited on Sat Feb-03-07 05:01 PM by SCRUBDASHRUB
know what kind of freak he/she may be (could be some dangerous lunatic..we already know he/she is crazy and stupid for what he/she wrote). I think you have to give your name, address and phone number to be published, don't you?

Just want you to be careful. Don't need some freak with a gun showing up on your doorstep. You never know these days.

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Martin Eden Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-03-07 05:03 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. That's why I decided to send it anonymously
I won't take any chances with freepers knowing where I live. I thought about giving my email address, but I don't wamt to get a virus in return.
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nosmokes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-03-07 05:44 PM
Response to Reply #5
15.  good letter, but sending an anonymous response to a LTTE seems cowardly
to me and not something molly ivins would condone. my 2¢.
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Martin Eden Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-03-07 06:05 PM
Response to Reply #15
16. I was not going to give this person my personal information.
It would have been irresponsible to subject myself and my wife to potential retribution, so I was left with the choice of whether or not to give him my thoughts.
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nosmokes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-03-07 06:10 PM
Response to Reply #16
18. then mayhaps you should have responded via the LTTE forum and let it go.
i understand your position, but as soon as we start using the same tactics that molly ivins detested and railed against in her 'defense' which does her memory the greatest dishonor? if nothing else, molly was all about honor.
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Martin Eden Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-03-07 06:20 PM
Response to Reply #16
21. I haven't sent the letter yet, so I leave it to my fellow DUers:
Tell me if you think I should mail this letter or not. I'll abide the will of the majority. So far, a few have suggested to send it would be cowardly, dishonorable, or just a bad idea in general.
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followthemoney Donating Member (745 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-03-07 11:18 PM
Response to Reply #15
28. NOT sending a letter would be cowardly. Molly would love it.
Now that she is dead we can all speak for her. Cowardly, speak for yourself.
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nosmokes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-04-07 01:49 AM
Response to Reply #28
33. um, molly never shrank from owning up for her writings and never hid
behind a nom de plume. that said i fully understand the OP's desire not to give his personal information to the LTTE writer. my point is simply that the honorable thing is to respond in kind, via another LTTE and sign his name. and i maintain that molly ivins would not condone anonymous replies to public commentary. it's a simple matter of decency.
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ninkasi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-03-07 05:05 PM
Response to Original message
6. Your letter is one of the best I've read
The freeper you responded to used classic, shop-worn right-wing spin in their letter about Molly. Their responses are always something like this...wave the flag, thump the Bible, and ignore the facts. They trot out what they consider to be patriotic sound bytes, and end up saying nothing of substance. Your letter, on the other hand used those pesky facts that the right-wing shuns so much. After all, if we all have to stick to the facts, Bush would have never given a speech in his life.
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The Wizard Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-03-07 05:09 PM
Response to Original message
8. The Chicago Tribune
should have better options for LTTE publication considering their circulation. Then again, they got you to write an op-ed for them at no cost.
Perhaps they published the letter to illustrate the flawed mental capacity of Bush supporters with thought disorders and loose associations.
You could shorten your response quite easily with one question: What kind of brain dead idiot still believes Bush/Rove/Cheney/Goebbels propaganda?
I like using Nazi references when discussing these war criminals. It gives their ever dwindling supporters nervous tics.
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grace0418 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-03-07 06:16 PM
Response to Reply #8
20. The Tribune is notoriously RW, which is so fucking weird considering that
Chicago is quite blue. They probably wade through piles of really well-written, thoughtful LTTE just to find the perfect RW idiot's vitriol to publish.
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man4allcats Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-03-07 05:10 PM
Response to Original message
10. Great shot!
Thanks for taking this jerk to task on Molly's behalf. She spoke for us, and you spoke for her. Kudos to you, sir! Well done! :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

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MasonJar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-03-07 05:13 PM
Response to Original message
11. Correct the typo in the first paragraph/second line..need if, not of.
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okasha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-03-07 05:42 PM
Response to Original message
13. Not a good idea.
Several months ago, I wrote an LTTE to a regional paper criticising Bush. About a week later, I got a response in the mail from another reader with a typical Bush-can-do-no-wrong bent. Since the paper publishes full names and cities, but not mailing addresses, I figure the guy traced my home address through my website.

It felt remarkably like being stalked. It also felt rather threatening, even though no threats were made, the language was quite civil, and the writer gave a name and return address that were presumably his own. Be aware that, despite your disclaimers, your letter will probably have a similar effect on its recipient, especially if you send it anonymously.
But perhaps that's the effect you want.

If it isn't, then another LTTE, or a series of them, will no doubt be read by the original writer and several thousand other people. Or you could try for an op-ed. Which approach do you think would be more productive?


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Martin Eden Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-03-07 06:15 PM
Response to Reply #13
19. Sending this in the mail is the surest way of having it read
by its intended recipient. The likelihood of having an op/ed or series of LTTE's published is practically nil.

Admittedly, there is but a miniscule chance that my letter will induce objective thought or the pursuit of facts on the part of the recipient. Nevertheless, even without knowing his reaction, I derive some satisfaction from giving him a piece of my mind.
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knitter4democracy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-03-07 08:06 PM
Response to Reply #19
25. No, it isn't. I seriously doubt he'll read it.
It's scary to be personally addressed through the mail after writing a public letter. Pare that down, and send it in to the paper.
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Joe Chi Minh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-03-07 05:43 PM
Response to Original message
14. One day his kind will indeed be held to account, and any such crooked thinking
will only confirm his place among "the goats".
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SCRUBDASHRUB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-03-07 06:07 PM
Response to Reply #14
17. Good letter, though. Meant to tell you that.
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crispini Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-03-07 06:44 PM
Response to Original message
22. Stalker-riffic!
And too long, to boot. It will get balled up and thrown away, and not elicit a moment's thought from the recipient.
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nicknameless Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-03-07 07:38 PM
Response to Original message
23. I think it's a bad idea to send it to the letter writer.
Anyone who remains a bushbot at this point is insane, unconscionable, unreasonable, and not worth the paper, ink or postage.
Plus, in a way, they were courageous to use their real information, and so your secrecy makes you look cowardly.

But I do think you should send it to the newspaper.
Molly deserves to have your dissenting view seen by others.
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knitter4democracy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-03-07 08:05 PM
Response to Original message
24. I've had people call me at home after LTTEs. It's freaky.
He won't read it--it's too scary to think that someone would respond so personally instead of in another LTTE to the same paper. I was also called at home once, and while the guy just called to say he agreed with me, it scared me.

Send that to the Trib, not to the letter writer.
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papau Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-03-07 09:11 PM
Response to Original message
26. Excellent - very well written n/t
n/t
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The Witch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-03-07 11:09 PM
Response to Original message
27. The only question this brings up for me is,
Edited on Sat Feb-03-07 11:09 PM by The Witch
did Molly write something just after 9/11 and if she did, what was it? If he really wants to know what her response was, maybe someone should mail him her response.
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followthemoney Donating Member (745 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-03-07 11:24 PM
Response to Original message
30. Thank you for your efforts.
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B Calm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-04-07 01:07 AM
Response to Original message
31. You should send your response to the Tribune
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agincourt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-04-07 01:17 AM
Response to Original message
32. Very good response,
you answered a freeper trolls swill more courteously than I would have. "Saddam Hussein posessed weapons of mass destruction". "Blue ribbon panel of liberal academics". Those kind of people need a shock collar to zap them every time they try to pawn off shit like that.
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struggle4progress Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-04-07 08:53 PM
Response to Original message
35. Aim at the Fat Cats and Cronies: leave the little people alone
If I wrote a letter to the paper and got a response addressed to me, I'd wonder about the sanity of the person who bothered to look up my address -- and if the letter were anonymous, I might worry a bit.

All of us think our own opinions are the only reasonable ones and that once anybody hears what we have to say, they'll be won over -- but in my experience it doesn't often work that way.

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Martin Eden Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-04-07 10:15 PM
Response to Original message
36. OK, I'm convinced. I won't send it.
Nor will I attempt to boil it down to LTTE length.

At least I expressed what I thought, and aired it out here.
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