Leave No NASCAR Dad Behind -- MUST READ

[Emillereid]

"Ironically, the sector of American society now poised to keep George Bush in the White House is the one which stands to lose the most from virtually all of his policies -- blue-collar men. A full 49 percent of them and 38 percent percent of blue-collar women told a January 2003 Roper poll they would vote for Bush in 2004."
--Arlie Hochschild


Perhaps the central paradox for a Democratic presidential candidate is figuring out how to attract some of the 50 percent of blue-collar workers who might vote for Bush. Howard Dean awkwardly addressed the issue when he referred to the need to attract guys with "Confederate flag bumper stickers." Dean used the wrong metaphor, but he was correct in identifying a key election challenge for the Democrats.
<snip>

Arlie Hochschild: Let me back up first before I answer that, though, so I can nail down some poll results. They came as a bit of a surprise to me. A full 49 percent of blue-collar men and 38 percent of blue-collar women indicated in a January '03 Roper poll that they would vote for Bush in 2004. We can now compare that to the smaller proportion of pro-Bush professionals and managers. 40 percent of male and 32 percent of female professionals and managers plan to vote for Bush.

<snip>

That may be reassuring to blue-collar males. I won't be just thrown out of my family if I cheat, or if I spend my money drinking, because I'll come back and ultimately I'm the head of the family and I'll be forgiven. It's a patriarchal archetype that the male head of the household is always forgiven his failings.

...more....

http://www.alternet.org/print.html?StoryID=17431

Excellent -- I think she nails the connection between the white, blue collar worker's loss of status, etc and how this translate into an animosity for women and minorities that the Bushits exploit -- all the while they're picking his pocket.

[ClintonTyree]

1. It's been my experience.................

having been loosely connected to NASCAR and it's fans, that the Dems don't stand a snowball's chance in hell of winning them over. A vast majority of these people are flag waving, Lee Greenwood, Toby Keith loving 'Murkins that would sooner drink 110 octane racing fuel than vote for a Democrat.
There is no way to convince them that the Bushies are not their "best buds" and looking out for their interests 100%. Most of these people check their brains at the gate before entering the racetrack and forget to retrieve them on the way out.
It may seem a bit obtuse to some for categorizing an entire demographic this way, but I've been there, I've seen it up close and in person.If you're a politician and there isn't a (R) after your name, you ain't fit for johnny detail in the porta-potties to these folks. It's sad, but all too true.

[sventvkg]

2. That's because 49% of them are stupid Ignorant...

Drunk idiots....They'll surely get what they deserve if they vote Chimp in....The Idiocy astounds me...Here's an idea, instead of spending all of your time and energy watching a Damn Car Race...READ SOME FUCKING BOOKS!!!! Educate yourselves you miserable bumpkins!

[Cocoa]

17. is that a parody of DU?

I haven't heard a lot of that kind of elitism here, though I hear right wingers portraying liberals as thinking like that.

I wonder if your post will end up on the Wall Street Journal's "Best of the Web."

[Gemini Cat]

23. That's certainly the way to do it.

:mad::mad::mad::mad:
Insult, belittle and otherwise demoralize the working class. That's the way to insure they'll ignore their class interest and vote 'pub. Don't bother going out and actually trying to talk to "those" people. Goodness gracious no! We certainly can't have our party sullied with the likes of the Velveeta eating, Nascar loving, unwashed masses, now can we? :eyes: end/sarcasm.


Attitudes such as these will insure four more years of the resident wanker!

:dem:

[Nay]

3. Boy, does this hit the nail right on the head.

The blue-collar workers I know behave exactly this way, and woe to you if you try to reason with them. You can tell that they have NO IDEA why they really support Bush -- they can't defend individual policies nor do they even know of many of Bush's policies -- they respond directly to the emotional appeal of the white guy who fucks up and still gets to be prez. It's so true.

And this is why I have always maintained that things will have to get much worse before they get better. Only the most in-your-face reality (for example, the draft, wholesale layoffs in the millions, millions dying of preventable illness, the visible breakdown of blue-collar neighborhoods, etc.) can wake them up.

Unfortunately, because of their low educational attainment, most blue-collar workers are very hard to reach. The educations that many of us get at colleges help us, as a class and as individuals, be more introspective, be more knowledgeable of sociology, psychology, world history, etc., all of which contributes to habits of mind that are very different from those of the blue-collar worker we are discussing. A lot of us are able to question our own motives, investigate our own reactions to things, and adjust our attitudes in different directions depending on what we discover about our own inner workings. For many uneducated folks, this introspection does not occur, so they never have the opportunity to decide that their own feelings may be getting in the way of their own progress. And they rarely get to the point of being able to recognize when they are being manipulated by those who are supposedly on their side.

Does anybody remember the hue and cry over the "liberal teachers" who were making little Johnny and little Susie write essays on their feelings about a subject?? The religious right, especially, went nuts over this. In these types of communities of people, introspection is forbidden. It leads to liberalism, godlessness, wishywashiness, and heaven knows what else. Just do as your white-male-head-of-the-household tells you, and that's that.

This, folks, is what the Enlightenment was all about. And we are still fighting the same fight with the forces of darkness that don't even know they are forces of darkness, and don't realize they are digging their own graves.

[gator_in_Ontario]

4. Whoa

I resemble that remark! I have been blue collar my whole life, and work in a very "redneck" ie "bumpkin" industry. I do agree with the NASCAR thing, though...kinda like watching clothes dry to me.

My point is blue collar worker does not equal moron. Most of the folks I work with initially supported Bush...but as their sons went off to fight a useless war, believe me their allegiance is changing. If Bush doesn't get their boys and girls home he might be in deep doo-doo

From a long proud line of yellow dog Democrats

[kclown]

6. I'm a blue-collar Democrat too, but, tell me,

how come nobody figured out that invading Iraq was the only
reason W. wanted to be president?  I could see that in June
1999.

[Nay]

8. No need to get upset, gator.

The author of the above linked piece is referring to a specific section of the blue-collar population, speculating as to why they vote against their own interests. This does not mean that there are no blue-collar dems or no smart blue-collar folks. I came from a blue-collar dem family, so I am just as familiar with these guys as you are.

That doesn't mean I romanticize them or will cut them much slack. Their unwillingness to wise up is hurting us all, and that's a fact.

And thank you for confirming whatI said in my first post, namely that only hard experience will bring the majority of those blue-collar Bush voters around -- that is what you are noticing with people at your workplace. Only when the neighborhood kids start dying do they begin to question what they are told. Beforehand, it was rah-rah-rah, kick those towelheads. I do fear that all Bush will need to do to neutralize this growing discontent for the war is SAY he is pulling out of Iraq, pull a few troops out for show, and then after he wins back his base and uses them to win the election, send the troops all back in again. Then what will we do? Explain to his base that they really fucked up now? Try in vain to convince them not to vote Republican in 2008, when there is a new face running who spews a whole new set of emotional catchphrases that Rush eagerly repeats 3 hours a day?

It's not a pretty picture, but refusing to look at the problem means we as dems will never deal with it.

[gator_in_Ontario]

22. thanks

for the intelligent response...I live for the banter :)

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

24. ROFL "like watching clothes dry"

Good one

[stilpist]

5. Thanks for the post and link.

This is such an important issue.

Here's another take on it. A recent DU thread regarding a Mother Jones article:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=103&topic_id=26935

This author says that the blue-collar men do know that they're voting against their own self-interest. They do it to serve what they see as a higher good.

I'm not sure how we can counter, but I do believe that it has to be something positive. Just pointing out that Former Governor Bush and his thugs are screwing them won't do it, IMO.

- stil

[pfitz59]

7. Cheap gasoline.....

And control of world's oil supply! NASCAR fans ain't stoopid! Shrub is their man!

[Desperadoe]

9. Is it any wonder

that the Democratic Party has lost the middle class vote?

For an excellent example of why the Pukes get away with labeling us "elite liberals"...................

"Unfortunately, because of their low educational attainment, most blue-collar workers are very hard to reach. The educations that many of us get at colleges help us, as a class and as individuals, be more introspective, be more knowledgeable of sociology, psychology, world history, etc., all of which contributes to habits of mind that are very different from those of the blue-collar worker we are discussing. A lot of us are able to question our own motives, investigate our own reactions to things, and adjust our attitudes in different directions depending on what we discover about our own inner workings. For many uneducated folks, this introspection does not occur, so they never have the opportunity to decide that their own feelings may be getting in the way of their own progress. And they rarely get to the point of being able to recognize when they are being manipulated by those who are supposedly on their side."

What a crock of bullshit!

It's almost as idiotic as labeling all gun owners and hunters as "Gun Nuts".

You have any more great recipes for losing?

The Democratic Party has deep traditions in the blue collar, non college educated, working male. This is where our roots used to be. If we lost this demograpic it is through the narrowminded and elite attitudes that you portray in this post.

I am a retired government employee who started his career as a blue collar worker and finished as a manager. I don't have a college education but I consider myself as intelligent and well read as most of the posters at DU. I have also been a hunter, gun owner and Nascar fan most of my life.

I am also a lifelong Democrat dating back to Truman as were most of my friends and family, that is until people like you decided to define us as too uneducated and ill-informed to " have the opportunity to decide that their own feelings may be getting in the way of their own progress".

Plonk!!

[Martin Eden]

12. Your point is well taken -- here's a counter-point

eddie4664,
The paragraph you quoted above also struck me as presumptious and offensive. It attempts to psychoanalyze an entire class of voters. Comments about habits of mind and introspective feelings lose their validity when applied to any large group because individuals vary greatly in these respects, regardless of education.

I have a college degree which I never applied to a career (long story), and have worked the last ten years in a blue collar environment in suburban Chicago. Things may be different in the South, but what I tend to see is not a lack of introspection, but a lack of information. This applies as well to the many college-educated people I know; their time is devoted to their jobs, their family, and various forms of recreation and entertainment.

I hesitate to call them ignorant, but for the most part they have made very little effort to delve beneath whatever they might learn from watching the evening news on television. Polls have consistently shown that approximately half of all Americans believe Saddam Hussein had a hand in the 9/11 attacks, they have never heard of PNAC, and know very little history regarding our involvementt in the Middle East.

They're good people, most of whom have religious faith, are patriotic, and view GW Bush as an honest regular-guy type who is doing all he can to guard our national security. I'm doing my best to change their minds, and I'm having some success because I've established rapport and trust with them.

Yes, these are generalizations. I have one well-educated intelligent friend who is a lifelong Republican and refuses to accept any information suggesting the Bush administration lied about WMD. Some people cling so fiercely to their belief systems that is useless trying to debate them.

I wish I knew what needed to be done to convince the majority of our fellow citizens that Bush is a disaster for this country we all love. Whatever the solution is, I'm certain that anything characterized by condescension and insult is doomed to failure.

[GOPFighter]

13. I sorta' agree, but...

I, too, started out as a blue collar worker (UAW), and am now a manager for the federal government. I worked in a factory right out of high school and then again after a stint in the Air Force. You have a point about the elitist tone of the post you objected to, but I'll be honest...most of my co-workers in the factory were racist, explosive, and disdained anyone who tried to introduce any independent thought.

They were immensly insecure and lived in constant fear that they might do something that would make others doubt their manhood. It was their insecurity that caused them to want life to be simple. They despirately wanted to be told what was right and wrong rather than figure it out themselves.

If any are still alive, I can imagine they would love Bush's swagger and certainty, and macho "Bring 'em On!" attitude. That's how they judged a man.

[DinahMoeHum]

10. So, then, how do we "teach these pigs how to sing"??

(Rhetorical question- based on the saying "don't try to teach a pig how to sing - it's a waste of time and annoys the pig")

Or do we just say "f**k 'em" and write them off? We can't save them, so we have to save ourselves. If they won't save themselves, tough. They'll be swept under the waves of change going on in the world - and their white skin will be of no use then.

:kick:

[yorgatron]

11. for supposedly "smart" people

y'all are dumb as a bag of hammers.step one,get candidate's name on a car.step two,have the candidate show up for some races and drink a couple beers and hang out in the pits.step three,get rid of all the volvos,M-Bs,etc.etc. in cadidates driveway and get an american built car or truck or BOTH.

[GOPFighter]

14. Hmmm, in other words, pretend?

Sounds like something a "politician" would do. <chuckle>

Actually Dem. Pres. candidate Bob Graham did just that (put his name on a NASCAR race car) didn't he? He was the first to drop out.

[GOPFighter]

15. Ironically, a Republican listening to a Dem....

...try to explain why NASCAR dads don't vote for Democrats is probably just as funny as listening to a Republican try to explain why Blacks don't vote for Republicans!

[yorgatron]

16. probably not a good analogy but

it's kinda like going to the burger stand for a cruise night and not ordering any food.i admit,this is a strategy that would work better for some than for others,edwards and clark would feel right at home (ABB myself)

[cap]

18. has anyone considered this...

reach down into their ranks and find a leader? Someone who has been down there and hasn't forgotten where he came from? Someone who still speaks the same lingo and can speak frankly to these guys. Someone who still drinks Bud and eats Big Macs and chilli dogs who can explain to these guys that they've been duped. Once they understand in common sense terms that they've been had, they will vote Democratic.

The other thing our spokesman -- and I do believe it has to be a guy -- is to be a role model. Someone who can be tough yet compassionate. Someone who has a strong, successful wife that he's just as proud as he can be of her. Someone who can fit the image of the all-American football player, hang out with the cops/firemen/soldiers, and yet be caring and pragmatic for the smallest and weakest in our society. Someone who can reassure us that he can keep America safe for democracy without trampling on the rights of others. These guys want a role model. Let's give it to them.

What I think is that we need to develop Democrats with a common touch to help articulate concepts in a way that very ordinary people can understand. Clinton was great at this. I could listen to him and be impressed at the profundity of his thoughts yet I never got the sense that he spoke over anyone's head.

We really need to change the delivery of our message if we want to reach these guys. Bill Moyers is great but he aint talking the talk to these guys. Unfortunately, Limbaugh does.

The Mad Cow thing is great. It is starting to chip away at public confidence in Bush administration and is the first widespread example of how the failures of this administration hurts ordinary Americans.

[bvar22]

19. The Dems won't get ANY of their votes...

...through elitism, bigotry, snobbery, ridicule, insults, or abandonment.

There are several suggestions in this thread that WILL WORK.

A well financed racing team with a popular driver and the Democratic Party ASS KICKING DONKEY logo on the car would be an effective way to win ALOT of these fans.

Winston Cup racing has come a LONG way from its roots. It is very professional, highly competitive, very technical, strategically complex, and very entertaining (if you know the basics).

The fans are incredibly loyal, and susceptible to advertising. They can be led to the Democratic Party if we can give them something to follow (besides insults). Most of them are good, hardworking Americans who have been misled into NOT TRUSTING the Democratic Party. Open your minds and try to see them as potential Democrats.

[Nay]

20. If I come off as elitist because I want to further explore

the possible sources of the actual voting attitudes of the segment of voters as reported by Hochschild in her article, then I am sorry. I tried to make it clear that I did not think that all "Nascar dads" were ignorant and uneducated, as some suggest. They are not. We are talking about some of the 49% she is talking about. Is it possible to discuss this 49% without getting flamed by individual blue-collar Dems who claim they have brains?? As I pointed out, I also considered myself well-read and well-educated even while holding down a blue-collar job and growing up in a blue-collar family. I have many friends and family in that category, and many acquaintances and family members in the DUMBASS category. That's just a fact.

A couple of posters have mentioned other reasons why these people vote against their own interests, and they are surely partially or totally correct as well. But to refuse to recognize that there are a whole lot of folks out there that are pretty dumb and unwilling to examine their own minds is pretty dumb in itself. We all know them. We all work with them, go to school with them, etc. Sure, you can call it psychobabble or elitism, but the Repubs call it market research and they are KICKING OUR ASSES in that department.

And, if you think the Repubs show the Nascar dads any respect, read the Hochschild article again. They give the white male spurious reasons to feel "manly" and then strip them of income, rights, you name it. And I'M elitist??

As far as all the lifelong white male Dems who abandoned the Dem Party supposedly because of elitist assholes like me, well, I can only point to the major reason historians say they left the Dem Party -- the Dem Party embraced civil rights for blacks. This drove many, many of the white male Nascar dads right out of the Dem Party into the arms of the Repubs, and it didn't have anything to do with the supposed elitism of people like me. It had to do with THEIR racism, plain and simple.

[Desperadoe]

21. You didn't come off as "elitist" to me

You came off as bigoted and you still are. You are still stereotyping an entire group of people, just as you did in your original thread.

Putting all Nascar fans in categories is just plain stupid, just like putting all "Christians" or all "Blacks" or all "gun owners" in categories. It is this type of stupidity that lets the Pukes get away with labeling the Democrats as "elitists". Even "dumbasses" don't like to be stereotyped.

The Nascar fanbase today is not the Nascar fanbase of the 70's. Nascar is no longer just a good ol' boy sport, especially with the addition of numerous northern and western venues and the advent of network television coverage. They are not all blue-collar nor are they all uneducated nor are they all named Billy Bob.

One more thing that you should know. Not all Nascar fans are white males. The last bus that I took to the Richmond race had 46 people on it; 16 white males, 12 white females, 12 black males, 5 black females and 1 I wasn't sure of.

The Nascar fanbase is far more diversified than you or the author believe. My suggestion is to forget the "Nascar Dad" category BS and concentrate on winning individual support. Nascar fans don't want to see donkeys or elephants on race cars and Jeff Burton is no more likely to endorse a candidate for office than is Alan Iverson or Peyton Manning. Sports and politics don't mix, just ask Rush.