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The Case for Conservatism (George Will Does Comedy!)

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Demeter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-31-07 10:54 AM
Original message
The Case for Conservatism (George Will Does Comedy!)
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/05/30/AR2007053002026.html?referrer=email&referrer=email&referrer=email&referrer=email

The Case for Conservatism

By George F. Will
Thursday, May 31, 2007; A19



Conservatism's recovery of its intellectual equilibrium requires a confident explanation of why America has two parties and why the conservative one is preferable... The argument, like Western political philosophy generally, is about the meaning of, and the proper adjustment of the tension between, two important political goals -- freedom and equality. Today conservatives tend to favor freedom, and consequently are inclined to be somewhat sanguine about inequalities of outcomes. Liberals are more concerned with equality, understood, they insist, primarily as equality of opportunity, not of outcome.........This (conservative) reasoning is congruent with conservatism's argument that excessively benevolent government is not a benefactor, and that capitalism does not merely make people better off, it makes them better. Liberalism once argued that large corporate entities of industrial capitalism degraded individuals by breeding dependence, passivity and servility. Conservatism challenges liberalism's blindness about the comparable dangers from the biggest social entity, government.

Conservatism argues, as did the Founders, that self-interestedness is universal among individuals, but the dignity of individuals is bound up with the exercise of self-reliance and personal responsibility in pursuing one's interests. Liberalism argues that equal dependence on government minimizes social conflicts. Conservatism's rejoinder is that the entitlement culture subverts social peace by the proliferation of rival dependencies.

The entitlement mentality encouraged by the welfare state exacerbates social conflicts -- between generations (the welfare state transfers wealth to the elderly), between racial and ethnic groups (through group preferences) and between all organized interests (from farmers to labor unions to recipients of corporate welfare) as government, not impersonal market forces, distributes scarce resources. This, conservatism insists, explains why as government has grown, so has cynicism about it.

Racial preferences are the distilled essence of liberalism, for two reasons. First, preferences involve identifying groups supposedly disabled by society -- victims who, because of their diminished competence, must be treated as wards of government. Second, preferences vividly demonstrate liberalism's core conviction that government's duty is not to allow social change but to drive change in the direction the government chooses. Conservatism argues that the essence of constitutional government involves constraining the state in order to allow society ample scope to spontaneously take unplanned paths...Here is the core of a conservative appeal, without dwelling on "social issues" that should be, as much as possible, left to "moral federalism" -- debates within the states. On foreign policy, conservatism begins, and very nearly ends, by eschewing abroad the fatal conceit that has been liberalism's undoing domestically -- hubris about controlling what cannot, and should not, be controlled.

Conservatism is realism, about human nature and government's competence. Is conservatism politically realistic, meaning persuasive? That is the kind of question presidential campaigns answer.

georgewill@washpost.com
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ixion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-31-07 10:58 AM
Response to Original message
1. "Today conservatives tend to favor freedom"...
...

...

:rofl: :wow: :rofl:

Huh... you mean, like, the freedom to spy on US citizen w/o due cause? You mean the dissolution of Habeas Corpus? You mean torture and extraordinary rendition? That kind of freedom? :grr: :puke:
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Demeter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-31-07 11:00 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. I Think He Means Corporations' Freedoms
Freedom to pollute, freedom to defraud, maim, cheat, steal, and enslave US citizens and foreigners, Freedom to kill without punishment or even a fine, that kind of freedom.
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ixion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-31-07 11:02 AM
Response to Reply #2
3. sadly enough
I think you are correct. :-(
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PDJane Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-31-07 11:04 AM
Response to Original message
4. It would be funny.......
If these folks weren't so damn dangerous.
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unpossibles Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-31-07 11:21 AM
Response to Original message
5. I don't think he understands Liberalism or Conservatism
or is just a liar.

I hate this argument:
Racial preferences are the distilled essence of liberalism, for two reasons. First, preferences involve identifying groups supposedly disabled by society -- victims who, because of their diminished competence, must be treated as wards of government.

First of all, it's pretty blatantly false. I don't know any progressives who consider people incompetent because of their race, but I do know a lot of conservatives who do. This is the same group which fought against civil rights and integration, correct? Now, they (white men) are the victims because society basically handicaps other races by giving them special treatment to become wards of the state? That doesn't even begin to make sense.

It's funny too that he uses a quote from a Democrat - one of the hated Kennedys even - to prove his point about conservatives.

George Will is a shill and a moonbat. Seriously. he says conservatism is realism about human nature, but then assumes that the supposedly level playing field of the free market won't be tainted by the same incompetencies and greed that government allegedly falls into.

The problem is not "government" Will. The problem is the people who will gladly take advantage of whatever system is available, and the people like you who enable them to do so through lies and propaganda. When have you ever had to struggle, George? Did you 'make yourself' in a complete vacuum with no help from anyone?

Honestly I sometimes wish that those who think that they owe nothing to society (may want to read that Kennedy quote again, asshat) would just leave and start their own society where there are no safety regulations, no taxes, and everyone magically gets along without a police force. Good luck!
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JoePhilly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-31-07 11:26 AM
Response to Reply #5
8. Agree ... Will and conservatives LOVE the curent system ...
They know who you need to know ... they have all kinds of special access ... opportunities come to THEM, not the other way around.
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Rydz777 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-31-07 11:21 AM
Response to Original message
6. Even Tucker got rid of his bow tie. Will just never gets the word. eom
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JoePhilly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-31-07 11:21 AM
Response to Original message
7. "Conservatism is realism" .....?
What he means is that conservatism sees the world as it is, likes it, and wants it to stay exactly as it is.

Those in power now, stay in power forever. The current wealthy (who clearly must deserve to be wealthy) to stay wealthy forever. The current poor (who clearly deserve to be poor) to stay poor forever.

Conservatives see the world as a "fixed pie", and they don't want to share any of it.

Progressives see the world as limitless, and want everyone to have a chance to get "more pie".
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Festivito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-31-07 12:27 PM
Response to Original message
9. CON intellectual equilibrium is what? The right mix of thieves and sheep?
When you have half of one percent thieves among the rest being sheep, conservativism thrives I take it... according to half of one percent!
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Festivito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-31-07 12:29 PM
Response to Reply #9
10. CONs need a confident explanation, rather than a COGENT one?
Must be the only way to sway sheep when you're a CONfidence man, i.e. liar.
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Festivito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-31-07 12:35 PM
Response to Reply #9
12. between ... freedom and equality? WAIT, our cornerstone is JUSTICE.
Justice is the first establishment of our Constitutional Republic. Whatever freedom is just, whatever equality is just, we can offer. Freedom doesn't have to be traded for equality, nor vice versa. You can offer as much of either or both as you determine is just.
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Festivito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-31-07 12:41 PM
Response to Reply #9
13. CONs favor freedom? FOR THEMSELVES MAYBE. NOT US. NOT AMERICANS.
Everyone not in the top half percent is shoved into a noise machine. Where they are free to speak where no one will hear them, not free to be heard.

Perhaps the only REAL CONs are the top half percenters, who favor their freedom to deny freedom.
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htuttle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-31-07 12:31 PM
Response to Original message
11. Wow -- when did George Will start smoking pot?
I've read more cogent essays than this from freshman philosophy majors...

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Festivito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-31-07 12:46 PM
Response to Original message
14. The rest just continues foolishness from a foolish beginning./nt
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yurbud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-31-07 02:35 PM
Response to Original message
15. Cons don't offer freedom OR equality (unless you can pay for it)
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yurbud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-31-07 02:37 PM
Response to Original message
16. life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness--in that order
so one persons's desire for happiness by making profits cannot trump another's liberty or survival.

The Conservative idea is that you get as much of any of the three as you can pay for.
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Dollface Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-31-07 02:45 PM
Response to Original message
17. Actual conservative
I think it would smarter to read, consider and respond intelligently to Mr. Will's arguments than to dismiss him and his ideas as if they were just more Neocon talking points. Mr. Will is not a Neocon although he is a conservative. He tasted the kool-aid but didn't drink it. (Well, at least not all of it). I read his articles in Newsweek in the 70's and still read him today. Though I can't say I generally agree with him, his criticism of the left is not knee-jerk in the style of Hannity or O'Reilly. We can learn much from him both about how the left is perceived and how the right sees itself. This essay invites dialog that we should engage in if we are to restore a two-party (at a minimum) system of government. It is an honest and thoughtful response to this type of article that will keep us from becoming "Neolibs".

"He can generally be counted on to rise above reflexive partisanship when the situation truly demands it." (http://www.anonymousliberal.com/2006/02/george-will-to-rescue.html)

"The essence of the Liberal outlook lies not in what opinions are held, but in how they are held: instead of being held dogmatically, they are held tentatively, and with a consciousness that new evidence may at any moment lead to their abandonment." -Bertrand Russell
(Thanks again to anonymousliberal for the quote.)
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Demeter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-31-07 03:17 PM
Response to Reply #17
18. Not Sure How Will Can See the Mote In the Democratic Eye
when he's got that whopping big beam in his own!
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classysassy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-31-07 10:12 PM
Response to Original message
19. George"mr peabody"Will
has been telling the same sick lie for years,shadup George you are so full of yourself.(mostly shit).
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uberllama42 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-01-07 06:39 AM
Response to Original message
20. I don't know why conservatives pretend we have a free market in this country
The government already interferes extensively in favor of business. I want to change the formula so that government interferes in favor of people. As the conservatives often point out, consumers are the source of all wealth, which is why any tax ultimately comes out of their pockets. Why does the government protect businesses if consumers are the ones who really pull the weight in the economy?
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