Too Much Self-Esteem Can Be Bad for Your Child

[marmar]

from New American Media, via AlterNet:


Too Much Self-Esteem Can Be Bad for Your Child

By Andrew Lam, New America Media. Posted July 10, 2007.



American schools stress self-esteem as the stepping stone to academic achievement. But students from Asian cultures, which place little stock in self-esteem, seem to do better than their American counterparts in school.

In the age of Myspace and YouTube and Google Earth, the space between East and West seems to shrink. But in the area of self-perception, especially, there remains a cultural gap that can often be as wide as the ocean.

Take Jeong-Hyun Lim, a 24-year-old business student in Seoul. Popularly known as Funtwo on YouTube, his rock rendition of Pachelbel's Canon has turned him into a global phenomenon. Lim's dizzying sweep-picking -- sounding and muting notes at breakneck speed -- has had some viewers calling him a second Hendrix. His video has been viewed on YouTube 24 million times so far.

But Funtwo himself is self-effacing, a baseball cap covering much of his face. No one knew who he was until Virginia Heffernan wrote about him in the New York Times last August. She called his "anti-showmanship" "distinctly Asian," adding that "sometimes an element of flat-out abjection even enters into this act, as though the chief reason to play guitar is to be excoriated by others."

Anyone in the West with this kind of media spotlight and Internet following would hire an agent and make a CD. But Lim told Heffernan, "I am always thinking that I'm not that good a player and must improve more than now." In another interview, he rated his playing around 50 or 60 out of 100.

Lim's modesty is reassuringly Asian, echoing the famous Chinese saying: "Who is not satisfied with himself will grow." In a classic 1992 study, psychologists Harold Stevenson and James Stigler compared academic skills of elementary school students in Taiwan, China, Japan and the United States. It showed a yawning gap in self-perception between East and West. Asian students outperformed their American counterparts, but when they were asked to evaluate their performances, American students evaluated themselves significantly higher than those from Asia. "In other words, they combined a lousy performance with a high sense of self-esteem," noted Nina H. Shokraii, author of School Choice 2000: What's Happening in the States, in an essay called "The Self Esteem Fraud." .....(more)

The complete piece is at: http://www.alternet.org/story/56230/

[Klukie]

1. Someone who is too full of themselves....

carries a false sense of reality. Just take a look at our leaders. Mabye this is what ails our country today with respect to hollow leadership.

[rainy]

2. they also have a much higher suicide rate. Hummmmm n/t

[grace0418]

17. self-delete

[DavidDvorkin]

3. American students tend to overestimate their knowledge and abilities

Even though they rank low compared to the rest of the world. We need to worry less about self-esteem and more about education.

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

4. Great article - thank you for this. (nt)

[Sadie4629]

5. Maybe self-esteem should be based on accomplishment

Back when I was in a College of Education, we were taught that students need high self-esteem in order to achieve. Instead, what seems to have happened is that we reared a generation of kids who were losers with high self-esteem. I believe in encouraging achievement, then praising the heck out of the kid for that achievement.

[truth2power]

6. The self-esteem movement

has produced a generation of individuals who have an inflated sense of self WITHOUT the requisite accountablity that goes with it.

If you teach self-esteem, it's absolutely essential that you pair that with accountability. Otherwise you have a person who thinks s/he is the center of the universe but has little or no empathy for others. This mind-set is pervasive in American society today.

You are correct in your assessment.

[Sadie4629]

10. Don't know if this is a self-esteem story

--but it seems relevant.

My niece was always a problem student. But her mom stood behind her 100%. If there was a problem in school, the girl would tell mom that it was the teacher's fault. My sister would go storming into that school ripping everyone and their brother a new asshole. This went on for about ten years. Somewhere along the line my sister figured out that her daughter was playing her and everyone else, but it was really too late to do anything about it.

Niece and her friends would have competitions to see who could get the lowest g.p.a. She skipped school continuously. She always was home first to intercept any letters from the school. In other words, she had bad behavior down to a science.

Finally, the school system decided to get tough with her, especially over her truancy. She called her mom from the principal's office and sobbed, "They want to put me in jail!" My sister's only concern was that there was a chance she herself would have to go to jail. Once she ascertained that she was in no danger, she told them to go ahead and do what they had to.

Niece is now 24 years old, has had a string of abusive boyfriends, has a baby to support on her own, has a low-paying job, pretty poor employment history, and lousy credit. I think she now realizes the error of her way. Her life is much harder than it should be. I guess the moral of the story is that if her parents had been a little less concerned about her self-esteem and a little more concerned about supporting the schools' efforts to control her behavior, the girl (and her son) would have a few more advantages in life.

[firefox_fan]

15. Yup, a temporary boost to your self-esteem may lead

to later disaster, when reality bites hard.

[jazzjunkysue]

27. As a teacher, I have seen your story played out every year.

It is actually quite rare that a public school teacher is far enough out of line that a parent needs to interceed for them.

But it is increasingly common for parents to take everything that is said about their child personally, and then defend them like this, causing long term problems.

Parents have forgotten that part of what we learn in school is to deal with the real world, and sometimes, some people in authority that are less than compassionate. Most school problems are small enought that kids can learn from the struggle, and parents would serve them better by staying out of it.

I have had to go to school twice in my daughter's 12 years: Once because the school play had her out until 11 with rehearsals (legitimate) and once because a notoriously bad math teacher needed to hear from the principal and stop punishing the kids because she coudln't do the math.

The rest of her struggles were good for her.

[firefox_fan]

14. Couple that with routine use of anti-depressant and related meds..

And you got: An out of touch individual who thinks he/she is entitled to everything by definition.

[RaleighNCDUer]

8. That has always seemed bass-ackward to me --

You don't need high self esteem in order to achieve - you gain high self esteem by achieving.

[AllyCat]

20. Hear, hear!

We now have sports where "no one loses" and 3R classes cut in favor of "feel good classes".

Then there is the idea that accomplishment is the way to getting somewhere in life and gaining self-esteem AND a work ethic at the same time.

[gravity]

28. I wouldn't say accomplishment, but perseverance

High self esteem will push you try harder and still have confidence in yourself after experiencing a failure. You know you can do better next time so you try harder.

Sheltering kids from failure is obviously not going help them with anything, and definitely not going to raise their self esteem. You need to encourage kids to try harder and learn from the times they fail in order to really raise their self esteem.

[Odin2005]

7. My generation's Baby Boomer parents seems to have been obsessed with our "self-esteem"

That nonsense is very annoying.

[shenmue]

32. I don't think so at all.

Do you like to feel bad all the time?

Do you think a positive self-image is important during adolescence?

If you say what you said in that post to your kids, I won't wonder how they'll turn out. I can guess.

My parents talked a lot about self-esteem. They also took me to the library at least once a week. I turned out fine. I think both ideas helped.

Are we supposed to say mean things to our kids and make them feel bad? Does that help?

Parents have some nerve talking about what kids should do, because they don't know how things are different today. But let's say more negative things and call them stupid and spoiled, I'm sure that'll help.

If your kids are doing something you don't like, don't let them. Simple as that.

No need to add insults, which help no one and are strictly to mollify your own resentment.

[XemaSab]

38. I think the so-called self esteem movement just makes people cynical

I spent my youth with people praising me for random things, some of it deserved and some not.

Now when someone tells me I did a good job I just think they have low standards.

On the other hand, I am truly surprised when I meet someone who I think is really good at something and has my high standards.

It's lose/lose

[Odin2005]

9. Another thing, Ive read that there is a cyclical trend in this sort of thing.

I've read that the WW2 generation was raised in a way similar to us Gen-Yers. Gen-Xers were raised in a fashion similar to the "Lost" Generation of Truman, Ike, etc. Baby Boomers were raised in a similar way to the "Muckraker" generation of FDR.

We are in the part of this cycle that leads towards stricter, more protective parenting, While when the Boomers were kids it was just the opposite.

[Sadie4629]

11. Please refresh my memory

I'm a Boomer. Where do the X-ers and the Y-ers begin and end? I think my kids are Y-ers (they're 23 and 21.)

What you said makes a lot of sense, but on the other hand, so many of the Y-girls are having babies on their own at too young an age. Unfortunately, many of the girls I know in that situation are over-indulgent in material things, but neglectful as parents. Because they start having children so young, they are inclined to have more than those who wait. Their children are very likely to repeat the mistakes of their own parents. I foresee generational poverty becoming an overwhelming problem that will be the burden of a demographic (middle class, educated, tax-paying people) that will begin to shrink at an alarming rate. What do you think?

[Odin2005]

12. the early 80s birth years.

The early 80s is when the whole "baby on board" thing started and kids started becoming more protected.

[Zodiak]

35. Not all of us

I was beaten with a bullwhip by a military dad whom everyone thought was the pillar of the community. I got straight A's in school, and it was expected of me....less would incur punishment (mother and father). I was born in 1971.

Even though I had accomplished all that was expected of me, I was still called stupid and made to feel like I was unworthy because I wasn't as quick, wise, or mature as a full adult (father).

The best thing my mom did was divorce him, but of course the comminuty thought of me less because I was fatherless.

At least 15-20% of my age cohorts were raised in much the same manner....boys and girls (this is North Texas, by the way). We were beaten in school, as well....especially for minor infractions like being out of one's seat when the bell rang. I had a friend whose father killed his little brother by beating him to death over a messy room. And yes, he was a boomer.

A lot of my fellow students had very hard lives after high school, and not much self-esteem to speak of to boot. Many became Bushbots and embrace religion like you wouldn't believe....they feel like they belong somewhere and were easy pickings. For me, gaining self-esteem has been a terribly hard and long struggle, and I still battle those demons every day even though I am fairly accomplished in a couple of arenas.

Just to add a little balance to the "Gen Xers are spolied brats" meme. Depends on geography and the parents in question.

[silverweb]

13. I've got a problem with this whole debate.

I really dislike like the term "self esteem" because it's been bandied about so much that its meaning is no longer clear.

To me, "self respect" is a lot clearer and less misunderstood.

Narcissism may be confused with self esteem, but never with self respect.

Arrogance may be confused with self esteem, but never with self respect.

False pride may be confused with self esteem, but never with self respect.

Self restraint and modesty may be confused with lack of self esteem by some, but never with a lack of self respect.

False modesty, which is pure posturing, is nauseatingly dishonest.

Appreciating and fostering one's abilities, while recognizing and accepting one's limitations is key to real self respect. This is not the same as the narcissistic arrogance of "too much self esteem."

Teaching children to respect themselves as unique individuals, to do their best, to trust their most honest instincts and desires, and to respect the individuality and rights of others is critically important. It gives them motivation, a sense of accountability and honor, and a healthy sense of pride and hope.

This is not teaching them arrogance or narcissism, but it is giving them a grounding in self respect.

[grace0418]

Excellent post. Excellent points.

I like the way you think.

[silverweb]

24. Just the way I see things.

:hi:

[Celebration]

26. Thank you.

Plus, children are all different and need different approaches to child rearing. There is no one size fits all.

[lumberjack_jeff]

31. I'm not sure that there's a misunderstanding.

The Asian guitar-playing kid in the OP has plenty of self-respect.

The misunderstanding comes from promoting self-esteem by suppressing self-respect.

If the problem children in my acquaintance had enough self respect to do their homework and fulfill their obligations, they'd have less need for the affirmations they give themselves for mediocrity.

I do appreciate your offering up the distinction though - I think it's critically important.

I don't agree that modesty is a bad thing - even if one really does think that they're all that and a bag of chips.

[silverweb]

36. Where did I say modesty was a bad thing?

I believe I clearly made the distinction between modesty and false modesty. I've never seen the Asian guitar-playing kid, so I have no opinion about him.

My dad used to say that all the truly great people he'd met throughout his life were the ones least likely to "blow their own horn" -- confident without being arrogant, modest without timidity, and commanding respect by giving it.

The misunderstanding comes from equating self promotion with self esteem, as post #21 so vividly illustrates.

[XemaSab]

39. word

n/t

[Gregorian]

16. It can result in NeoRepublicanism.

A disease of the soul which manifests itself in greed, arrogance, ignorance, wrecklessness, carelessness, hypocrisy, and just all around disgusting behaviors.

[NotGivingUp]

18. Well, they certainly don't want anybody being self-confident and thinking for themselves.

Heaven forbid...that doesn't fit in well with their plans of corporate enslavement for the rest of our lives. They like little sheeple. They do what they are told and don't ask any questions. Stick their nose to the grindstone and say 'yes sir!'

[eppur_se_muova]

19. Self-esteem/respect is something you *EARN* from yourself.

It is not something you can slap on like a coat of paint to cover up untreated flaws. Unfortunately, panderers of pop psychology push the latter approach -- it's quick, easy, and it pays for their books and speaking fees.

One of the best comments I've ever heard on this whole subject came from a graduate student in biology who was trying out for the US Olympic judo team. In her spare time (! this term obviously needs redefinition) she also taught judo to young kids. One of the remarks she was quoted on was to the effect (as close to the original as old memory allows) "Self-esteem isn't something someone gives you, it's something you earn through accomplishment."

[lumberjack_jeff]

34. No, I've met lots of narcisistic jackasses with high self esteem

Self respect would cramp their styles.

[AllyCat]

21. One preschool here in Madison, WI changed the words of "brother John"

to "I am special, I am special, look at me! Look at me!"

Unreal.

[silverweb]

23. Very bad idea.

That brings up another pet peeve. When did it become acceptable to reverse correct grammatical order to put "me" and "I" first in a sentence?

I was taught that it was proper to say, "you and I," "my friends and I," etc.

Now, all the time in public discourse and journalistic sources, I hear "I and my family thank you," and "I and others agree," etc.

When and how did this become acceptable? It seemed to occur overnight and it makes me cringe every time I hear it.

[mzmolly]

22. I've heard that Asian Countries have a high suicide rate as well?

http://www.atimes.com/japan-econ/AH04Dh01.html

Academics isn't everything, nor is "feeling good" it's about balance and nourishing individual strengths IMHO.

[rudy23]

25. Fallacy--false cause. Maybe those cultures put more emphasis on learning.

What a fallacy. Some people think you raise a healthy child by beating them down all their lives--anything less is soft.

[eridani]

37. Also collective problem solving with homework

Asian parents also differ from American parents in their answer to the question "What is the most important factor in success in math classes--native talent or hard work?" Asians pick "hard work" and Americans "talent".

[gravity]

29. These kids don't have true self esteem

If you have true self esteem, you can accept that you made mistake or did something incorrectly, and can take responsibility for it. It gives you the confidence to realize your weaknesses and improve your faults.

The "self esteem movement" is encouraging the exact opposite. Arrogance isn't self esteem.

[shenmue]

30. I don't see how low self-esteem is good for anyone.

Japanese schools do better because the class keeps quiet and the teacher just reads the material. Simple. Also, parents make the kid read and get extra tutoring.

Japanese kids kill themselves in droves. I want American kids to do better in school, but I want them to live.

Or maybe we should wait until they grow up and can experience the fabulous self-esteem of American adults, who drink, screw around, do drugs and watch sports all day. That's so much better. :eyes: :sarcasm:

[lumberjack_jeff]

33. The Japanese invented the term "suppuku". Don't blame it all on low self-esteem.

The problem isn't absence of self-esteem, the problem is paying for high self-esteem with the currency of self-respect.

[Brundle_Fly]

40. Have you seen American Idol?

A Self Esteem Catastrophe central, and proves this article. :P