Why is She Hated by Progressives and Right-Wingers Alike?

[The River]

I'm not saying anything one way or the other.
I'm just posting the story.


America’s anti-Hillary Clinton alliance is growing by the day
by Leonard Doyle
Published on Sunday, July 15, 2007 by the Independent/UK

http://www.commondreams.org/archive/2007/07/15/2545/

"WASHINGTON — There is something about Hillary that raises the blood pressure of otherwise easy-going Americans - and they don’t need to be Republicans. At a 4th of July barbecue, with the band working its way through the “Battle Hymn of the Republic”, I made the mistake of asking a pleasant young woman what she thought of Hillary’s chances. Red white and blue fireworks were going off over Capitol Hill, as she morphed into the sort of person who goes on the Jerry Springer Show. She would “never, ever” vote for America’s most famous politician, she said. More than 50 per cent of Americans agree with her.

snip

Everyone has a different reason for predicting failure. There’s the “political baggage” theory, which holds that she is fatally tainted by the scandals of her first stint in the White House. The “revolving door” theory says Americans are sick of alternating Bush-Clinton dynasties. The “woman as commander-in-chief” theory predicts that Americans obsessed with terrorism want a man to do their bombing. And there is the issue of Hillary’s frighteningly high “negatives” which Gallup recently put at 50 per cent."

Overall though, the writer seems to think Hillary is inevitable.

Like a child who has been abused by a bad father for 8 years
is America now looking for a good mommy to save us?

[jackbourassa]

1. Don't forget independents as well...

nt

[Buzz Clik]

2. Well, as I understand it...

Rightwingers hate her for being Hillary Clinton. They can give you reasons, but most of them are misconceptions.

Progressives are pissed off that she has hidden her liberal side to appease the right-leaning centrists, as if daring the Dems to vote for a Republican if this strategy results in her nomination.

[Dogmudgeon]

3. She's a strong woman. People hate that. Even progressives.

Not everybody, of course, but enough to affect the Washington Echo Chamber.

There are certianly rational reasons to oppose Hillary, but that's not what is driving the debate.

--p!

[yurbud]

4. I have never found her offensive as a person--just the positions she has taken as senator

I actually liked that smartass "stand by your man" crack she made during the 1992 campaign.

Too bad she didn't stay in that mode.

[waiting for hope]

6. The flag burning thing was what

chapped my ass with her. I figured, with all the crap that is going on in this country, try to do something that will help Americans, not stifle free speech, much less about a non issue to begin with.

[yurbud]

12. Do you think anybody who is trying to snag the tard vote with non-issues plans to do any good?

I mean that as a legit question.

[struggle4progress]

24. Although I dislike such games, they may sometimes be necessary for the win

And frankly, I find your use of 'tard to describe your political opponents an offensive swipe at a number of people with various developmental disabilities

[yurbud]

29. I meant something close to that though--those with limited intelligence and moral development

who are still considered "normal" and can hold jobs and all of that, those that buy into the lynch mob appeal of the Bushies.

There are smart republicans, but they aren't the ones that put Bush in the White House.

[XemaSab]

30. I can't support a candidate

who is willing to say *anything* to get elected.

You think they're YOUR liar, but how do you KNOW? :shrug:

[Sarah Ibarruri]

5. I'm a feminist and I do NOT want Senator Clinton to run for prez

I have so many reasons it would take me a week to expound on them all.

[Dogmudgeon]

10. But probably not because she is a strong woman

It's possible, but less so if you've given it any thought, as you probably have. The same could be said for many other DUers.

You have reasons, as you said. Even bad reasons are better than emotionalizing on reflex. Many people hated her the first time she said "Hello, I'm Hillary Clinton". Most Hillary haters, nationally, are blind in their hatred; policy is not even a concern. Most all politics is like that.

Yet Hillary is also very popular. A lot of people adore her, and if there is a groundswell for a woman president, Hillary is best placed to take advantage of that.

I just hope that if she IS elected, she chooses to exercise her authoritarian streak on the Republicans and Conservatives.

--p!

[Sarah Ibarruri]

20. Keanu Reeves is also popular, but he doesn't stand a chance of winning an election. nt

[IndianaGreen]

9. “Women sometimes bend the wrong way just to prove themselves to men,”

Jane Fonda says that Hillary is a “ventriloquist for the patriarchy with a skirt and a vagina. It may be that a feminist, progressive man would do better in the White House.”

For Fonda, the big disappointment was Hillary’s 2002 Congressional vote giving George Bush the green light to go to war on Iraq. It turns out that Hillary didn’t bother to read the top-secret intelligence report, that she as a senator was given access to before the vote. The six senators who did read it all voted against, because the still-secret report seems to have persuaded them that the case for war was flimsy.

“Women sometimes bend the wrong way just to prove themselves to men,” remarked Fonda. “But when we learn to listen to ourselves, that will be revolutionary.”

http://www.commondreams.org/archive/2007/07/15/2545/

[skyblue]

7. gf polls the best mostly against leading republican candidates.

Except that gf does not always beat them. general voters: "if you were to vote today who would you vote for...."

Which is rather scary because you'd think that tho' americans are for the most part against neocrap overseas policies it doesn't seem to translate as well to the presidential elections.

http://blogs.usatoday.com/ondeadline/2007/02/poll_clinton_gi.html

The big picture: we need an electable presidential candidate. too bad she has lots of baggage. Biden has less baggage.

[Buzz Clik]

8. Yes indeedy. The dislike for Senator Clinton is commonplace among feminists.

[Demeter]

11. Probably Because Hillary Is No Feminist

Nor is she a Progressive, nor a Liberal, nor a humanitarian.

Hillary is a lawyer. A Corporate Lawyer. Nothing more, nothing less. Better educated that W, but not a better leader. Hillary has led no one nowhere. She doesn't lead in the Senate. She couldn't lead in the First Lady's slot. She is the wrong woman in the wrong place at the wrong time. She would do better on the Supreme Court.

[struggle4progress]

23. Perhaps her law career actually proves her feminist credentials

[Demeter]

25. Feminism May Have Paved the Way for Hillary's Career

But has Hillary's career returned the favor? Not yet, by any measure. She reaps what previous generations sowed, but she has yet to replant in either the fields of feminism or of democracy. Instead, she thinks Business got her where she is--but all Business is doing is trying to hitch itself to her wagon, and take her for a ride.

[struggle4progress]

26. It's up to the Senator, I think, to decide whether she wants the label or not

but "feminism" to me has always seemed to be about women making their own choices, under conditions ensuring them the same freedoms males have traditionally had -- and not about whether, in the course of making those decisions, they follow a path entirely approved by some guy like me.

The Senator is smart and made, in her younger days, what were then ground-breaking career choices. The Administration her husband headed seems to me to have taken women's issues seriously -- something for which she may deserve substantial credit, since males have typically failed to see such issues unless pushed hard by someone. And I can't imagine that NOW would have endorsed her if she were as indifferent to feminism as you suggest.

I personally am not supporting her through the primary season, for what I consider good reasons, but this particular criticism of yours may be unfair.

[Demeter]

28. Feminism is About Equality of Opportunity

and removing barriers to same. Whether it's the glass ceiling, the nepotism clauses, or the lack of affordable childcare, equal pay, or whatever, it's about making changes for all--male, female, young, old, able or not, so that there are not differences in life experiences due to things not under one's control.

[skyblue]

14. Except for feminists who want a viable candidate.

[Buzz Clik]

17. Right. So, values are compromised for "viability".

It may be a winning strategy, but it also answers the question why a lot of progressives are not happy with Hillary.

[yurbud]

13. Biden is too establishment. His shtick about dividing Iraq is classic corporate foreign policy

divide and conquer.

A lot of us still remember his bankruptcy bill too.

[skyblue]

15. established and experienced.

MWM (bonus) who appeals generally. perhaps easier to please ia, nh, nm, fl too bad about that vote. didn't almost every candidate vote to allow shrub to go there if he thought it was necessary anyway......

[yurbud]

19. if he thought it was necessary to go into Iraq, he is either corrupt or retarded

[XemaSab]

31. The 10% on the far left HATE her for her centrist capitulation;

the 50% right of center HATE her because of who she is and what she represents.

That leaves 40% of the voters who would *possibly* vote for her.

That leaves 40% of the voters to fight over with Giuliani, Romney, Obama, and Edwards.

She's NOT electable.

Everyone in the US has their mind made up about her, so there's really no fight here. People have taken a good, long look at her and they don't see much there to like.

[SeattleGirl]

16. I do not hate Hilary at all. I do, however, question her stances on things

like the war in Iraq, and the contributions she has gotten.

And frankly, though I know this may seem petty, I really don't want another Clinton in office right now. We've had Bush, Clinton, Clinton, Bush, and Bush. I'm ready for some new blood in the WH.

Not just any new blood, though; I do want someone who has the fortitude, smarts, diplomatic skills, etc., to start untangling the ungodly mess that Junior has wrought upon this land, and upon the world.

If Chelsea wants to run in the future, I'd give her serious consideration, but truly, I think we need a break from the Bush/Clinton/Bush era.

[Daveparts]

18. She has the fire in the belly

to want to be President but lacks the strength of conviction to stand up for anyone but herself.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

21. She wants to win. So does every candidate. So what? nt

[struggle4progress]

22. I don't hate her at all. I find her intelligent and pragmatic. But I think there are good reasons

not to support her candidacy

[insanad]

27. The Great Chameleon and Shape Shifter

Perhaps my suspicions of Hilary Clinton are linked to some inherent turnoff at the path that powerful women seem to be compelled to take to reach their station, but I've not been a fan of her from the get go, regardless of her Democratic Loyalty. That seems to be the only thing (and Bill) that she seems to remain unwavering in. It's a broad assumption but I feel that people who are willing to deny, cover up, minimize, and otherwise lie through sins of omission are complicit in the crime. Sort of like enablers that buy their husbands the beer at the grocery store and then feel victimized when he gets sloshed and beats the hell out of them.

In some ways I believe Hilary has made a lifetime choice of enabling herself and even Bill for the "greater good" of what they both have to offer. Not that I'm without sin, but acknowledging ones culpabilities and working to overcome them seems more productive and honest than hiding and denying. I would have respected her more if she'd shown some courage and class in denouncing his stupid boorish wanderings, but still stood by him as a sign of her faith in his goodness. She took women back 50 years in her willingness to deny and hide his indiscretions, which is probably why he felt like he could get away with it from the get go. She is an enabler and in her ambitions for power and leadership, seems to be willing to change her "outfit" for whatever the latest trend in thought processes or political gain will get her. She'll buy the beer for the special interests and (initially supporting Bush's war} but then deny her own culpability in the beating that the American Soldiers and our reputation as a nation are taking.

I'm attaching my loyalties to Barack Obama and have great hope that he will be able to make a stained glass window out of the broken shards of glass that are our government. He seems to unify rather than polarize people. So many people dislike Hilary, not just because she's an ambitious woman, but because she does not seem sincere or honest and her actions or lack thereof confirm their suspicions.

[XemaSab]

32. I can only think of a few other women

who have been THAT eager to please all the people all the time.

Boxer and Pelosi (not to mention my homegirl Lee) are pretty content to declare themselves progressives. :shrug:

Tell me that a progressive can't get elected in New York... :shrug: