Guilty Until Proven Innocent...

[Knightly_Knews]

I seem to remember a time in our Country when a person was supposedly innocent until proven guilty. That, among other things have changed drastically in the past few years.

With the recent Federal trial of Michael Vick I cannot help but look at the media and the protesters involved and shake my head in disgust. Michael Vick's home, where the dog fighting club supposedly originated is located 40 minutes from my home.

This hit the local news way before it went MSM. In the days after the initial raid, his cousin who was the resident at this location said this, "I just want to say to Michael that I hope he isn't upset with me, I have remained loyal, I have not mentioned his name, I have said nothing."

That pretty much says he is hiding something, right? Well that must be what America is making it's judgment upon. Although this is a serious crime, he has yet to be proven guilty. As a matter of fact, I highly doubt he will face any conviction. Truth is, Mr. Vick was not supposed to be indicted. It was done so through the protest of local residents. 3 days before the indictment came, the local news had said that prosecutors would not be indicting him. Then all the sudden, the story changed.. Almost in a blink of an eye.

Now before this man has had a chance to defend himself, America has already started to punish this man. He has been barred from summer Training camp with his team. Reebok and Nike have dropped him as a spokesperson. And he faces daily protesters.

Don't get me wrong here. If this man is in fact guilty, he should face many years in prison. This is a pretty heinous crime. But he hasn't been convicted.

Mr. Kobe Bryant was on trial for Raping a woman, which to me is a lot more serious than fighting dogs to the death. Yet, Kobe was able to continue with his team, keep his sponsors, and maintain his innocence throughout the trial proceedings. Why?

If it was OK for Kobe, why not for Mr. Vick? Could it be that the Protesters against this man can't find something better to protest about? Nope, that cannot be it, we are in the middle of a constitutional crisis. Surely they can't protest that.

Is this just another ploy to try and shift America's focus off this corrupt regime know as BushCo.? It could be. Or is this America's new strategy against could-be criminals? To label them Guilty until proven innocent! So when BushCo. implements it's Patriot Act against the dissenters of this Country, and labels us as Domestic Terrorists, will America shun us off? Believing that we are actually terrorists before ever having a trial?

Let us hope not!

Peace Out,
Knight!

[GeorgeGist]

1. Federal trial?

link

[Knightly_Knews]

2. Yes federal Trial.....

http://i.a.cnn.net/cnn/2007/images/07/17/peace.phillips.taylor.vick.07.17.07.pdf

Go have a look, you need adobe viewer to read this.

here is an excerpt from it:

"The investigation has been a cooperative effort involving, among other agencies, the
United States Department of Agriculture, Office of Inspector General; Virginia State Police; and
the Surry County Sheriff’s Office. Assistant United States Attorneys Michael Gill and Brian
Whisler are prosecuting the case on behalf of the United States. The federal investigation into
the defendants’ criminal conduct is continuing.
Criminal indictments are only charges and not evidence of guilt. A defendant is
presumed to be innocent until and unless proven guilty."

And another:
http://www.postchronicle.com/cgi-bin/artman/exec/view.cgi?archive=24&num=92879

"NFL Falcon's Star Michael Vick - Federal Indictment Online"

[Arkansas Granny]

13. Apparently dogfighting and cockfighting have been federal

offenses for some time. However, Bush recently signed a tougher law regarding these practices.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
New federal law on dogfighting likely won’t apply to Vick case.
. . . .
Tougher dogfighting penalties that were signed into law May 3 could not be used against Michael Vick and three others indicted in the Surry County case. But an animal cruelty expert said the new penalties will lead to more future prosecutions nationwide.
. . . .
The charge stems from an April 25 drug search involving Vick’s cousin, Davon Boddie, 27. Investigators said they found 66 dogs, mostly pit bulls, and equipment used in dogfighting on rural property owned by Vick, who did not live at the house.

Eight days later, President Bush signed into law the Animal Fighting Prohibition Enforcement Act of 2007, which makes violating the federal animal-fighting law a felony and increases the maximum jail time from one year to three.

http://www.theolympian.com/sports/story/167421.html

[Heidi]

3. One minor point: Kobe Bryant was never tried.

As I recall, the case against Bryant was dropped by prosecutors during jury selection after the accuser refused to testify.
He made a public apology and I believe he financially compensated his accuser.

Also, although Kobe Bryant was allowed to remain on the team, he did lose some lucrative endorsement contracts.

:hi:

[Knightly_Knews]

4. Michael Vicks Jury has yet to be selected...

His trial has yet to begin as well... So what was your point again? :hi: :eyes:

[Heidi]

5. My point is

that some of your facts as presented in the OP are incorrect, that's all.

ETA: Welcome to DU. :)

[Knightly_Knews]

6. How are they incorrect?

Do you get my local news? Where the story originated? As I said, Michael Vick has only appeared in court to answer to charges.. He has yet to start Jury selection.

You say Kobe's trial was dropped DURING jury selection.. So how can you say this will not happen in Mr. Vicks case? He just requested a trial by Jury on Thursday in Richmond... So theoretically, his trial has not even begun.. At this point it is only an Indictment, Not a trial. And he was not even supposed to be indicted. You may not have heard that in the MSM, but we did on local news.. We live just outside of where his residence was.

So, what you are saying is that you think he is guilty... Thanks...

[Heidi]

8. Okay, here ya go.

You said: "Mr. Kobe Bryant was on trial for Raping a woman . . ."
Incorrect. Bryant and his accuser settled out of court: http://www.vaildaily.com/article/20050302/NEWS/50302060&SearchID=73288517837834

You said: Yet, Kobe was able . . . to keep his sponsors. . .
Incorrect. His endorsement deals with McDonald's, Nutella, Nike and Ferrero SpA were terminated. He has regained his Nike deal.
http://www.usatoday.com/life/people/2005-07-10-kobe-bryant_x.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kobe_Bryant#Conflicts_and_turmoil

I'm not correcting you about your speculation; almost everyone speculates. To answer your question, I have no idea whether Michael Vick is guilty; as far as I'm concerned, he's innocent until a judge or jury determines otherwise.

[Knightly_Knews]

10. He was beginning trial proceedings..

Therefore he was on Trial... I may have been wrong about the endorsements, but the trial no.. Jury selection is part of a TRIAL. He was on trial. Settling out of court is an admission of guilt. So why has Nike signed him back on?

http://crime.about.com/b/a/109117.htm
"Jury Questioning Begins in Kobe Bryant Trial" <----It was a trial...

[rzemanfl]

7. Some "loyal Bushie" U.S. Attorney is behind this prosecution, so

how can we tell if it is politically motivated or not? The Department of Justice does not deserve the word "Justice" in its name any more than the Defense Department "defends" us by invading countries that have not attacked us.

[Knightly_Knews]

9. That expains it well....

:hi: Good post my friend.

[rzemanfl]

15. Thanks, Welcome to DU. n/t

[atreides1]

11. How is this political?

I can understand BushCo going after Michael Moore, but what political motivation could there possibly be for going after an NFL player?

Please elaborate? Thank you

[Knightly_Knews]

12. $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ n/t

[rzemanfl]

14. Anything to control the news cycle. Processed cheese, dogs,

missing white women, etc.

[rudeboy666]

16. Not guilty under the law

....that doesn't mean we are not free to judge anyone as a scumbag (keeping in mind that this judgment doesn't carry legal weight).

Not guilty under the law does not necessarily mean a person is innocent (from a moral perspective that is).

[Heidi]

17. Nor does "guilty" mean a person is necessarily guilty.

It means that a judge or jury has made a determination based on the evidence presented. Just sayin'. :hi:

[Cobalt-60]

18. I don't say he's guilty unless he's convicted

I don't give d*mn about professional sports, by the way.
But if it is true the found all the stuff at his place that's been reported,
I'd say the authorities need to get involved.

[Knightly_Knews]

19. It was his house...

But he never resided at the residence.. It was solely occupied by his cousin an his friends... So, in other words he was basically renting the house out. With that said, if you are growing weed in your landlord's house, does the landlord get arrested? NO.

He will not be found guilty. Even if he was aware of the activities in that place.

Like I said, 2 days prior to the indictment, the prosecutor wasn't even going to indict Vick. I think it was a forced indictment from somewhere up higher in the chain of command.

[Cobalt-60]

20. well if i had a tennant busted growing weed

I would expect at least a call from the cops.
And I'd be d*mned irritated they didn't pay their rent with fine
green buds instead of smelly old checks!

[Knightly_Knews]

23. I hear that...

good point... lol

[fortyfeetunder]

21. To hear the MSM get wrapped around the axle

I agree that this discussion about Mr. Vick is getting far more attention than it deserves.

I have always believed in "innocent until proven guilty" but the media I hear, especially from certain talk-show cretins, that Vick is automatically guilty and he should be punished to the extent of the law....

So I wait for Justice to take its course. It's another reason to quit looking at the MSM.

I can't get too much involved in this and focus on other pertinent topics.

[awoke_in_2003]

22. You are correct

he is innocent until proven guilty, and the media should reflect that. However, if your actions or the action of those around you are bringing undue attention to your place of business, the business will respond. Jobs and endorsements are not rights. If you were alleged to have done these things, or that they were done on your property with or without your knowledge, and your employer was suffering financially because of undue attention the media whores were putting on it, don't you think you would be looking for another job? Now, presuming his innocence (which we must)the fact is these high paid athletes know that they garner a lot of attention, everything they do makes news. You'd think they might want to consider the people they have hanging around them.