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The United States: An Empire In Permanent Decline?

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marmar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-30-07 03:09 PM
Original message
The United States: An Empire In Permanent Decline?
From OpenLeft:


The United States: An Empire In Permanent Decline?
by: Chris Bowers
Sun Jul 29, 2007 at 22:36:42 PM EDT

Over the past month, in discussions with several different groups of friends, the topic of "American decline" has repeatedly arisen. Even though this is purely anecdotal, as it is drawn from conversations within my own social circles, it has come up so often of late, and people's conclusion seems so uniform, that I wonder if a new zeitgeist is forming: America's relative power and influence in the world is in now permanent decline.

Now, the decline of America's image throughout the world as a result of the Bush administration's actions in Iraq, or its refusal to sign treaties like Kyoto, has been the focus of progressive messaging against the administration for some time. However, what I am trying to describe here is a little different than that, and perhaps is a conclusion that was difficult to see before the American population began to reject the Bush administration's policies, and before the sweeping electoral gains that were made in 2006. While the Bush administration has pursued policies that have seriously damaged our image around the world, and while these policies have hasten the relative decline of our power, ultimately there is probably nothing that can be done to stop the decline altogether. We can change course, and slow the decline. We can also adopt a new diplomatic outlook that will improve our image. Still, in the end, after over two centuries of virtually uninterrupted growth in our relative power and influence, we probably reached our apex in the 1990's, and it is all downhill from now on.

Truth be told, we have long had underlying weaknesses that were masked by the collapse of our superpowers. Even though our share of world industrial output was actually at its apex-over 40%--in the 1920's, the downfall of the British Empire, and later the Soviet Union, (not to mention some either smaller or more temporary empires such as those built by France, Germany and Japan), made us appear relatively powerful to other nation-states. In terms of population, the United States has been growing at a slower rate than the rest of the world for decades. In terms of expanding our borders, well, no respectable nation really does that anymore. In fact, in the 1990's, we went to war with both Iraq and Serbia to, at least in part, stop them from expanding their borders and annexing new territory. In terms of exporting, we have long since been surpassed as the world's top exporter, and our manufacturing industries probably are not coming back. Now, virtually the only thin we export is our culture, in the form of language, television, movies, music, fashion, and other "creative" products.

Now, with the emergence of at least two new major power centers, China and the European Union, our relative decline can no longer be masked by the even faster decline of other "great" and "super" powers. China's economy is growing much faster than our own, and their massive population positions them well for future superpower status. While the European Union's economy is not growing faster than our own, they can do something no other major power center can: keep expanding by adding new member states. With countries like Turkey and Morocco already applying for membership, it might only be a couple of decades before the European Union starts earnestly expanding into areas like Africa and Asia. It might not even be impossible for a nation like India to eventually join the European Union in less than a century. There is simply no way we can compete with that sort of potential growth. ..........(more)

The complete piece is at: http://www.openleft.com/showDiary.do?diaryId=477


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Ezlivin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-30-07 03:11 PM
Response to Original message
1. This shares the views of Chalmers Johnson in "Nemesis"
His thesis is that we are an Empire and, as such, have overextended ourselves financially as other empires have. The end result? Collapse of the empire, a la Rome.
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eppur_se_muova Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-30-07 04:30 PM
Response to Reply #1
8. To quibble ... our "Empire" is something external, not really necessary to us.
The US will not break up or be overrun militarily, it will suffer a big step down in the world, as the British did when their empire fell apart (mostly because Britons no longer wished to send their sons off to die in colonial wars). A similar but more distant comparison could be drawn with Turkey, whose founder realized that the Ottoman Empire was so overextended that giving up territory was essential to the survival of the new Turkish state, and regarded the process as a life-saving amputation. Perhaps someday we will say the same thing about our withdrawal from our overseas bases, especially in Iraq.
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Ezlivin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-30-07 06:25 PM
Response to Reply #8
10. C. Johnson notes that we have approximately 1,000 bases worldwide
It was this empire to which I was referring (inelegantly).

I agree with your assessment that we will "suffer a big step down in the world" and part of that painful process will be the "loss" of these bases. Most of them are there to protect energy infrastructure; their value stems from the power they supply our military machinery.

Most of the nations in which they are based would really rather be rid of them. The bases on Okinawa for instance are not really wanted by the populace.
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eppur_se_muova Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-30-07 06:45 PM
Response to Reply #10
11. Agree. I was just noting that our "homeland" (ugh) is NOT in danger.
Would have mentioned Okinawa as an example of an unnecessary occupation myself, but I was blanking on the name (today is Slow Brain Day for me, I guess).
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madrchsod Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-30-07 03:13 PM
Response to Original message
2. no- a democracy dies when it`s citizens do not defend it
i do not think the people that came here from all over the world to live will let it die...
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PetrusMonsFormicarum Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-30-07 03:13 PM
Response to Original message
3. Visualize balkanization
Up here in the pacific northwest, we've got a lot of people who think that our region might be a lot better of if we could become our own nation, Cascadia!

A balkanized US would emphasize regional economies and local cultures. Several states and regions have already felt the sting of Fed infrastructure neglect. Maybe it's time to do it for ourselves, and to hell with Empire.
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closeupready Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-30-07 03:15 PM
Response to Original message
4. Interesting ideas, but a couple counterpoints:
1) China lacks natural resources.

2) The European Union is a new entity and hasn't really been tested by recession or war. If history is an accurate predictor of what's to come, the EU will like fall apart into smaller pieces. As to expanding to Morocco, lol - not going to happen.
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damntexdem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-30-07 03:16 PM
Response to Original message
5. Aw, it's not in permanent decline.
Once it reaches bottom, it'll just stay there. There'll be no room to decline any further.
;-)
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melody Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-30-07 04:01 PM
Response to Original message
6. Bush took us out on purpose ... the US isn't declining, it was murdered
With global complicity.
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eppur_se_muova Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-30-07 04:23 PM
Response to Original message
7. Wasn't there a time when Americans considered themselves ABOVE empire?
When I was younger, I don't recall the notion of an "American Empire" being spoken of in any positive sense. America had positioned itself on the side of dissolution of empires, even those of our allies, Britain and France. The notion of empire was considered an 'Old World' idea, not welcome in the New, and incompatible with democracy. It genuinely shocked me the first time I saw books being published with titles like "American Empire" because I had always read and heard that the concept was taboo.
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W4LT Donating Member (3 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-30-07 04:57 PM
Response to Original message
9. "Our" empire
and the EU are one and the same, if you buy (as I do) Hardt & Negri's analysis of the post-modern empire.
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Bread and Circus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-30-07 09:28 PM
Response to Original message
12. How about the "empire that never was"
Edited on Mon Jul-30-07 09:31 PM by Bread and Circus
Honestly, I don't think the United Stated ever really ascended to that sort of status. I think the neocons wanted this century to be the one where we became a true empire, but we never really got out of the starting block.

There have been very few true Empires and none of them ever last. However, they rely on picking off neighbors one by one with no concerted force to oppose them. We've never been able to do that.

We are more like a coorporation that has its greedy hands in a lot of pots and creating a lot of ill will and ill outcomes to sustain that greed, but we never had the hegemony of an empire. It's arrogant to think we were ever that powerful.

Now that the world is so technologically integrated, I think it would be harder than ever for any nation to become a true empire. It's too easy for the opposition to coordinate and oppose.

As for superpower status, I think we can lose it (we have to a degree), and regain it again. It's a matter of withdrawing heads from asses and learning the hard lessons from our mistakes.


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eridani Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-31-07 04:50 AM
Response to Original message
13. The bottom line is energy
We can't afford a foreign policy based on world domination after Peak Oil.
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marmar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-31-07 07:18 AM
Response to Reply #13
14. Exactly....
n/t
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