Money as Debt - what money is and how it is being created (Google video)

[LiberalUprising]

Paul Grignon's 47-minute animated presentation of "Money as Debt" tells in very simple and effective graphic terms what money is and how it is being created. It is an entertaining way to get the message out. The Cowichan Citizens Coalition and its "Duncan Initiative" received high praise from those who previewed it. I recommend it as a painless but hard-hitting educational tool and encourage the widest distribution and use by all groups concerned with the present unsustainable monetary system in Canada and the United States.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-9050474362583451279&hl=en

[LiberalUprising]

1. What? Over 400 views in 12 hours

and No one has an opinion on this???

[Locrian]

2. watching - awesome

K&R

[LiberalUprising]

3. Thanks for the reply

I can't believe more people don't have an opinion on this subject, this is the reason we are where we are and the reason things cannot change from within the system we now live under.

[Locrian]

4. this is mind blowing stuff

I'm forwarding the link to everyone I know - and I have the downloaded mp4 to watch again. Amazing - so simple yet so wicked. All laid out in undeniable clarity. We have a house of cards, rigged for the wealthy do-nothings to inherit EVERYTHING. And it is a system that cannot be stopped.

I also cannot believe there isn't more comments on this. This needs to be shown in every school, business, etc around the world.

[LiberalUprising]

7. Thank you

Exactly my thoughts, I've done the same plus posted at a ton of places I frequent.

Maybe this is too big for people to wrap their heads around here as the majority here seem to be party loyalists, this film would imply that there are no good guys on white horses coming to our rescue and that politicians are indeed all working for the same powers (banking system). I think there are many who just couldn't handle that reality.

Anyways thanks for taking time to comment

Another much more in depth 3+ hour film along these lines is The Money Masters, which you can watch here:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-515319560256183936

[Joanne98]

5. A MUST WATCH! K&R!

[Locrian]

6. yeah!

Another bump - maybe we can wake up some more people. This is a "must watch" if anything is.

[Trillo]

8. So which of the primary candidates are stumping about this?

Oh, that's right, all those quotes at the end.

Hush.

[Locrian]

9. Everyone is asleep....

"My father says that almost the whole world is asleep. Everybody you know. Everybody you see. Everybody you talk to. He says that only a few people are awake and they live in a state of constant total amazement." - Meg Ryan in Joe Versus the Volcano (1990)

[muriel_volestrangler]

10. 47 minutes on economics from someone most of us haven't heard of,

with a completely unknown conclusion, doesn't sound very attractive (let alone the 3 hour one you suggest), so I'm not surprised at the lack of comment.

If you can point to an article covering the same ground, and give a few paragraphs as an outline of its thesis, then people might be willing to invest their time. As it is, we've no idea if it's calling for insecure lending to be stopped, a communist society, a return to a gold standard, or what.

[Locrian]

11. m-kay, here you go

My commentary: Clearest way I have ever seen it presented as to how the monetary system works. Money as we know it is debt. W/o debt there is no money. But with debt you HAVE to have individuals who cannot pay P/P+I because the interest is NOT generated by printing the money. So you have an ever expanding debt system that guarantees that a few will eventually own everything - and a system that is unsustainable since it relys on exponential growth to maintain the time lag between debt and money infusion. Wicked.


Money as Debt http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-9050474362583451279&hl=en
"Paul Grignon's 47-minute animated presentation of "Money as Debt" tells in very simple and effective graphic terms what money is and how it is being created. It is an entertaining way to get the message out. The Cowichan Citizens Coalition and its "Duncan Initiative" received high praise from those who previewed it. I recommend it as a painless but hard-hitting educational tool and encourage the widest distribution and use by all groups concerned with the present unsustainable monetary system in Canada and the United States."

Money Masters http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-515319560256183936
"The powers of financial capitalism had a far-reaching plan, nothing less than to create a world system of financial control in private hands able to dominate the political system of each country and the economy of the world as a whole. Their secret is that they have annexed from governments, monarchies, and republics the power to create the world's money..."

THE MONEY MASTERS is a 3 1/2 hour non-fiction, historical documentary that traces the origins of the political power structure that rules our nation and the world today. The modern political power structure has its roots in the hidden manipulation and accumulation of gold and other forms of money. The development of fractional reserve banking practices in the 17th century brought to a cunning sophistication the secret techniques initially used by goldsmiths fraudulently to accumulate wealth. With the formation of the privately-owned Bank of England in 1694, the yoke of economic slavery to a privately-owned "central" bank was first forced upon the backs of an entire nation, not removed but only made heavier with the passing of the three centuries to our day. Nation after nation, including America, has fallen prey to this cabal of international central bankers.

[muriel_volestrangler]

13. Thanks - that gives a basic idea of their criticism

though I'm unclear what they are proposing as an alternative.

For the 'Money as Debt' position: Yes, the interest is not generated by printing the money - it should be generated by the people who take out loans making better use of the money than otherwise would have been. If banks were just risking money the banking business owned itself, the risk of lending to people or enterprises of dubious ability to pay back with interest wouldn't be a problem, but it is either money that depositors think is safe, or 'created money', that assumes the economy will continue to grow overall, that is loaned - and when they make bad loans, that causes a problem. I think there is a good case for far closer regulation of banks and their loans. But that would be a tweak in the same basic capitalist system. Are they proposing a more radical reform than that? Getting from capitalism to something else is incredibly difficult for the industrialised economies - our personal property like houses, and expectations like pensions, are tied up in the current system. If they have an idea of how to change it while keeping most people's basic standard of living going, it'd be great to hear it.

For "The Money Masters": yes, banking has been a fundamental part of the way industrialised countries have formed - it really predates modern democracy. The trouble with that is it makes any alternative entirely hypothetical - no society has been anywhere near as successful, in terms of personal freedom and physical wellbeing, for its average inhabitants as the industrialised democracies with the banking system we use. Again, any other proposal needs a very good explanation of how it would be better for people, and how we could change over to it.

[LiberalUprising]

14. Again, you are speaking without knowledge

of what you are talking about, if you would take the time to to watch the presentation, I'm sure it would answer the questions you pose.

Not that the explanation given was not accurate, but you seem to be wanting an all encompassing sound bite for an answer, which is just not possible on this subject.

Reminds me of people who were bashing F-911 without seeing it, if you asked them why they didn't like it, the reply was most always that they hadn't seen it because they had read enough reviews to tell them it wasn't worth their time.

Look at thr BIG picture

[muriel_volestrangler]

16. Yes- some of us don't have the bandwidth to download 50 minute videos

and others don't have the time to watch that, without some idea of what it's going to be ("cartoon about money" isn't a great advert). So I'm suggesting that a summary of what it says will get more people willing to make the effort. If you insist there's no way of summarising it in words, and the only way the message can possibly be got across is to watch the animation, then many, like me, are going to remain in ignorance of what it says. I'm not asking for a soundbite - I'm asking for an article. Far easier to download, and far better for getting serious discussions across, IMO - you can look things up more easily, refer back to earlier parts of the argument, and so on.

[LiberalUprising]

17. I apologize if that's what you were getting at

I wasn't thinking in terms of bandwidth.

I guess I'm spoiled with unlimited bandwidth and forget many don't have it that way, however I do feel the into in the original post was descriptive of the contents. (it was a little more than 'cartoon about money')

[LiberalUprising]

12. Nothing quite like a

closed mind, eh muriel?

If you are wanting something mainstream, (which it sounds like what you are asking for) that spells the situation out clearly for you, well that just ain't gonna happen.

Why do you suppose the history of money, where it comes from, who makes it or effective ways to use it is not taught in schools?

Why depend on others to tell you what something is about? Find out for yourself, use some logic, feed your head.


Gotta go....

[Trillo]

15. I didn't read/listen to it as "calling" for anything.

You are trying to evaluate whether it's worth spending the time to watch?

What I saw was an explanation of precisely how banking works. Just so I'm not shilling, I think it could have been improved by more explanation of the 5% of the total money it claimed was created by government, and how that process works. I also think that more coverage of the nature of government debt, and the collateral used, would have been helpful.

If it is calling for something in particular, I think it's government control of the money supply, instead of private control of 95% of the money supply. That seems to be a call back to the original U.S. Constitutions particular phrasing giving Congress the power to coin money.

Presumably, that would have something to do with undoing the 1913 agreements, though this is inductive and not something fleshed out in the video.

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I guess I've got to figure out how to pipe computer-delivered video to my TV.

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On edit, it's too bad this thread didn't get enough recommends to hit the greatest page. There it would get a lot more exposure. If anyone else starts another thread on this that's under the 24-hour recommend limit, please advise, I'd be happy to rec it as well!

[TrogL]

18. Yet another gold bug?

It's certainly getting high praise from them.

[Trillo]

19. A bit of the history of banking is included,

how paper currency evolved from goldsmiths who started safely storing other's gold in their secure locations. From there, it goes into fractional reserve, and how that got started, briefly.

It was actually much more informative than my Econ 101 class, which for some strange reason forgot to teach us such a foundational concept of economics. Imagine what learning math would be like if teachers had carefully excised number theory from the lessons.