Mike Gravel: Democrats Were Charged To End A War, Not Start One

[babylonsister]

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article18474.htm

Democrats Were Charged To End A War, Not Start One

By Mike Gravel

09/28/07 "ICH" -- - -Hillary Clinton was either misinformed or economical with the truth in Wednesday night’s debate when she responded to my challenge to her by saying the Senate’s resolution earlier in the day on Iran was designed to permit economic sanctions against individual members of the Iranian Revolutionary Guard Corps.

She and her staff should know the United Nations Security Council on March 24 already slapped economic sanctions on individual Guard Members. Like the Red Army in China, Iran allows Guard commanders to own and run private companies. Security Council Resolution 1747, which the United States voted for, froze financial assets held outside Iran on the seven military commanders, including General Mohammad Baqer Zolqadr and six other admirals and generals.

I know of no law dictating the State Department must first designate individuals or groups as terrorists� before sanctions can be imposed on them. Dozens of countries have been under U.S. unilateral sanctions that are not designated as terrorist. The U.S. first imposed sanctions on Iran in 1979 over the hostages, not terrorism. The only possible purpose of the Senate resolution asking the State Department to designate the Revolutionary Guards a terrorist organization� is to set it up for military attack in George Bush’s war on terror.�

As Virginia senator Jim Webb valiantly said in the Senate, the United States has never before designated the military services of a sovereign state a terrorist group. Indeed, though there is international dispute over the definition of terrorism, there is little disagreement on the legal point that terrorists are non-state actors� who target civilians, i.e., never members of a government. Governments can be guilty of war crimes, but not terrorism. And the resolution talks about attacks on American troops, not civilians.

The hypocrisy of Hillary and the 75 other senators who called for more unilateral sanctions on Iran, was exposed Monday by German Foreign Minister Frank-Walter Steinmeier who said, according to Spiegel Magazine, that American companies are violating existing U.S. sanctions by surreptitiously doing business with Iran through front companies in Dubai.

Joe Lieberman wrote the resolution authorizing the invasion of Iraq that was passed with Democratic support on October 11, 2002. Lieberman’s new resolution setting up a Bush-Cheney invasion of Iran passed by 76 to 22 with Democratic backing on September 26, 2007. These are two dates that will live in infamy in the 21st century. Led by Senator Clinton, it was another sad day for the Senate and for Senate Democrats, who were elected to the majority in November in order to end a war, not start a new one.

Mike Gravel is a former US Senator from Alaska and is currently running for the Democratic Nomination for President.

[DURHAM D]

1. When this irrelevant old bastard yelled at Hillary

in the last debate that she should be ashamed of herself I came up out of my chair. I was furious at that son of a bitch. Until that moment I had not realized that he was nothing more than an angry old sexist asshole and by no means a harmless or funny old asshole.

That moment from him reminded me of the the way older male family members and complete strangers were allowed to speak to women of any age and any position up until the last few decades of the 20th century. He forgot what fucking century he is in.

I spoke later that evening with a friend who had the exact same reaction to him. She was leaning Edwards but now she is pissed by the obvious sexism on display. Gravel was part of a bad tone for that entire debate and will drive women over 50 into the arms of Hillary. Stupid. Stupid. Stupid.

Fuck him.

[rsmith6621]

2. STILL..........

......Truth is Truth no matter the delivery and Hillary still has a lot of explaining about her war related voting record.

[DURHAM D]

5. Shaming isn't truth - it is just shaming.

There is no place for same in a political discussion or debate.

Shaming is the refuge of a bully.

[stimbox]

6. Tell the truth and shame the devil...

That's what Gravel did.

[babylonsister]

4. I'm over 50 and I applauded him calling her out since no one else has.

You are obviously a Hillary fan, and that's okay.

[robinlynne]

11. speak for yourself. not women. please.

[bvar22]

15. I, on the other hand, stood up and cheered!

AT LAST, someone is holding Hillary accountable. Her annointers in the CorpoMedia won't. I am glad someone in the Democratic Party will call her on her ProWar/AntiLABOR NeoCon enabling positions and not let her Triangulate and spin her way out of responsibility for the continuation of the War/Occupation of Iraq and escalation of Hostilities against Iran.

Even the talking heads are starting to notice that "Hillary never seems to actually answer the question".

The "Gravel is just a grumpy old man being MEAN to a poor little girl" don't fly here.
In fact, THAT excuse is more Sexist than anything Gravel did on Wednesday night.
If you think Gravel was being MEAN to Hillary by demanding that she answer the question, just wait until the mad dog Republicans get a hold of her.

Gravel is an Old School Democrat who is disturbed by the NEW RIGHT DLC direction of the Party.
I am too, and I am GD tired of the Great Triangulators.
Although I'm not a fan of Biden, his direct answers to simple questions, and his courage to actually take a stand on an ISSUE is a welcome relief from Hillary & Obama.

I don't blame Gravel for getting frustrated.

[lostnfound]

19. Perhaps not if those women have raised sons nearing draft age.

I have little to say about Gravel one way or another, but I do know that he helped publish the Pentagon papers according to Daniel Ellsburg and that he lobbied against the Vietnam war.

[lynch03]

20. How you were able to interpret that comment as "sexist" is beyond me

You're being ridiculous

[babylonsister]

3. Video/comments on the debtae here:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=385&topic_id=58303

[Purveyor]

7. The hypocrisy of Hillary and the 75 other senators who called for more unilateral sanctions on Iran

was exposed Monday by German Foreign Minister Frank-Walter Steinmeier who said, according to Spiegel Magazine, that American companies are violating existing U.S. sanctions by surreptitiously doing business with Iran through front companies in Dubai.

Excellent point former Sen. Gravel...

Carry on, indeed.

[babylonsister]

8. I'd love a link to that Spiegel Mag. Thanks. nt

[Purveyor]

9. Here you go: Berlin Says US and France Guilty of Hypocrisy

http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/0,1518,507443,00.html

[babylonsister]

13. Thanks! nt

[gateley]

10. I think Gravel would have said and done the exact same thing to any of the

other candidates who voted as Hillary did -- regardless of their sex. He's done it before -- he's spared no one.

We keep saying we want someone who tells it like it is -- to be real -- and boy, that's Gravel to a T.

I can understand your reaction if it had been a sexist, demeaning remark -- but I honestly don't believe that is how it was intentioned.

Gravel kicks butt -- I always love hearing what he has to say! :headbang:

Edit to add I'm over 50 and his remark didn't send me rushing into the Hillary camp. If people choose a candidate as a statement AGAINST the perceived treatment that candidate may be receiving rather than FOR that candidate's philosophy and record, that concerns me.

[robinlynne]

12. right on.

[truedelphi]

14. Jim Webb is indeed brilliant with regards to Iran.

It has to do with his having served in Vietnam and coming to the realization
that Nixon - Kissinger did not feel it was necessary to start a hot war with
China even though China
1) had nukes in its arsenal
2) was clearly supplying armanents to THe No Vietnamese that were killing
our troops in Vietnam.

The Bush Admin. wants Iraq and Iran for the oil and for the positioning of
our military in that region of the globe.
And also because they need an ongoing, eternal war to feed Halliburton, Blackwater,
etc.

[Pierzin]

16. TheTruth is Hard to Take and it spares No One, as it should

I am dissappointed that you feel that way Babylonsister, usually you are spot on.
But Hillary is not thinking clearly, or the way she should be. Gravel called her out supporting what can now only be an imperialist war, and continues to support war through Kyl-Lieberman.
As others have said, the truth is what it is no matter where it comes from, and I do not see it as sexist at all. I admired everyone up there Wednesday except Hillary precisly because she has been pro-war and precisely because she refused to answer most of the questions she got(and she got more than Gravel). She SAYS she wants to bring the troops home, but that's like the credit card companies giving you a teaser rate when you sign up. She couldn't promise to have all our troops out by 2013??? What the hell??? As I have said in another post, I would have preferred to see John Kerry up there over Hillary, at least I could understand his answers, though they are long-winded. But come one Hillary, couldn't even decide which baseball team to support???? WTF??? She's the front runner!!!! Make an f!%@'en decision!
Don't let emotion make your decisions for you. The USA must end this war, the USA must change in so many ways, and we have a lot of work to do.

[babylonsister]

17. You are disappointed that I feel what way, Pierzin? I'm

not getting where you're coming from. I posted the Gravel article and agree with it.

[Pierzin]

18. Post was meant for Durham D. sorry Babylonsister, & thanks!!

We need EVERYONE with a voice to speak up and be heard! oh, and babs, my bad!:P :hi: :shrug: :loveya: :loveya: :hug: :donut: