So Who’s Afraid of the Israel Lobby?

[IndianaGreen]

The Israel Lobby's latest accomplishment was to derail a university appearance by Peace Nobel Laureate Archbishop Desmond Tutu. Tutu's crime? He dared compare Israel's treatment of Palestinian and Israeli Arabs to South Africa's apartheid regime.

Published on Saturday, October 6, 2007 by CommonDreams.org

So Who’s Afraid of the Israel Lobby?

by Ray McGovern

Virtually everyone: Republican, Democrat-Conservative, Liberal. The fear factor is non-partisan, you might say, and palpable. The American Israel Public Affairs Committee (AIPAC) brags that it is the most influential foreign policy lobbying organization on Capitol Hill, and has demonstrated that time and again-and not only on Capitol Hill.

Seldom has the Lobby’s power been as clearly demonstrated as in its ability to suppress the awful truth that on June 8, 1967, during the Six Day War:

. Israel deliberately attacked the intelligence collection ship USS Liberty, in full awareness it was a U.S. Navy ship, and did its best to sink it and leave no survivors;

. The Israelis would have succeeded had they not broken off the attack upon learning, from an intercepted message, that the commander of the U.S. 6th Fleet had launched carrier fighters to the scene; and

By that time 34 of the Liberty’s crew had been killed and over 170 wounded.
Scores of intelligence analysts and senior officials have known this for years. That virtually all of them have kept a forty-year frightened silence is testament to the widespread fear of touching this live wire. Even more telling is the fact that the National Security Agency apparently has destroyed voice tapes and transcripts heard and seen by many intelligence analysts, material that shows beyond doubt that the Israelis knew exactly what they were doing.

http://www.commondreams.org/archive/2007/10/06/4357/

[rateyes]

1. AIPAC scares the shit out of me...

and we should demand our leaders stand up to them.

[Boojatta]

2. What's your source for that information?

By that time 34 of the Liberty’s crew had been killed and over 170 wounded. Scores of intelligence analysts and senior officials have known this for years.

Here's a link to a document from June 10th, 1967. It says that there were nine dead, ninety wounded, and twenty-four missing.

http://www.nsa.gov/liberty/51770/3084133.pdf

[bahrbearian]

4. Here is one source

http://www.gtr5.com/
and another
http://home.cfl.rr.com/gidusko/liberty/
http://www.remember.gov/HistoryOfSacrifice/USSLibertyIncident/tabid/85/Default.aspx

[Boojatta]

6. What's their source?

[bahrbearian]

7. They pulled it out of their asses ...

[bahrbearian]

8. Where have you been hiding

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article5073.htm

[bahrbearian]

3. When ever I post about the Liberty, I get Tombstoned

and after watching Bill Moyers Journal I've been pissed.

[L0oniX]

20. Bill Moyers rocks.

[0007]

22. Know whatcha mean!

[TroubleMan]

5. I think Cynthia McKinney is the only one not scared of them.

I don't know many more.

[Name removed]

9. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Zandor]

10. With all the deliberate attacks on America and Americans worldwide

over the past several decades, why do some reserve their outrage for an isolated incident of 40 years ago involving a staunch ally?

Hmmm.

[Howardx]

12. staunch allies wouldnt try to kill americans

n/t

[Zandor]

13. It wasn't shown they did

and Israel is indeed our staunchest ally in the region.

Who do you think is?

[0007]

23. Why does Israel try to hide Mordechai Vanunu - The Israel Nuclear Scientist

from the world after he spent eighteen years in prison?

I also find it odd that in 1963 JFK was embroiled in a bitter secret conflict with Israeli leader David Ben-Gurion over Israel drive to build the Atomic bomb. Ben-Gurion resigned in disgust. Upon JFK assassination U.S. policy toward Israel did a 180 turnabout.

[Zandor]

27. So Israelis killed JFK?

Were they in cahoots with Castro on that?

:rofl:

[0007]

28. Hmmmm

[Jim Sagle]

33. They killed him because they wanted to suck his blood.

:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

[wcepler]

11. the UN American neocon cabal

The neocon cabal has been wagging the tail of American foreign policy for years. It's hard to take it in that we have a "lobby" (really America's 3rd Party) so limitlessly powerful it ABSOLUTELY DICTATES America's foreign policy in the Middle East and that this "lobby" answers directly to lunatic fringe right wing Israelis. Israel is a complex nation and it has a vast liberal base (the Labor Party) which is MUCH more progressive than than our joke "Democratic Party"; however these are NOT the people to whom the neocon cabal obeys. How much longer will AMERICANS allow the fanatical and virulent right wing of another country to turn us into obedient and frightened puppets.

Isn't it time for Americans to take back our country from the very UN American neocon cabal?

[populistdriven]

15. I just googled Podhoretz and found this site, anyone know anything about it?

http://www.itszone.co.uk/zone0/viewforum.php?f=24
It seems like a Liberal / Leftist forums much like DU. I only read two threads and it doesn't seem racist.

The neocons are a scary bunch.

They will never learn that hate breeds more hatred. And they certainly hate everyone who is not one of them. They are more afraid of life then death.

[L0oniX]

21. Israel does not have oil so why do we even give a shit about them?

[pingzing58]

14. No Palestinian nation/state no peace. Israel work for peace with the Palestinians.

[The Backlash Cometh]

16. I think we've come a long way to finally be able to discuss these

matters without someone censoring the truth.

We do need to keep a good relationship with Israel, but, it's obvious the friendship has been abused. I won't be happy until we dissolve these lobbies, and have a chance to rebuild our relationship on our own terms.

[eileen fleming]

17. The Mossad and me

I have been to Israel Palestine five times since June 2005 and have a link on my website that tells me USA Govt., Military and Israel are consistently in the Top 20 of 70+ countries who visit WAWA:

http://www.wearewideawake.org/



Among the many nonviolent resisters to the Occupation of Palestine that I have interviewed, the most infamous of all was the whistle blower of Israel's WMD Program, Mordechai Vanunu.

On April 30, 2007, in Jerusalem, Vanunu was convicted on 14 counts of violating a court order which denied his right to speak to foreign journalists in 2004 after his release from 18 years in jail for telling the world the truth that Israel was already nuclear in 1986.

Vanunu was also convicted for traveling the few miles from Jerusalem to Bethlehem when he hoped to attend Christmas Eve mass at the Church of the Nativity, his first Christmas after being released from 18 years in jail on April 21, 2004 .

Vanunu was sentenced to 6 months in jail and his appeal will be heard November 13, 2007.

Vanunu has spent the last three years under house arrest in Jerusalem forbidden to speak to the likes of me, but in 2006 he told me, "This administration tells me I am not allowed to speak to foreigners, the Media, and the world. But I do because that is how I prove my true humanity."


When Israel was founded it was contingent on upholding the UN Universal Declaration of Human Rights. Article 19 affirms:

"Everyone has the right to freedom of opinion and expression; this right includes freedom to hold opinions without interference and to seek, receive and impart information and ideas through any media and regardless of frontiers."


In that spirit, I videotaped parts of my interviews with Vanunu in 2005 and 2006 and some of what he says in the "30 Minutes with Vanunu" which is freely streaming on WAWA:


"The Dimona is 46 years old; reactors last 25 to 30 years. The Dimona has never been inspected and Israel has never signed the Nuclear Proliferation Treaty but all the Arab states have...Twenty years ago when I worked there they only produced when the air was blowing towards Jordan ten miles away. No one knows what is happening now."

"The Israelis have 200 atomic weapons and they accuse the Palestinians and Muslims of terrorism. The world needs to wake up and see the real terrorism is the occupation and the Palestinians have lived under that terror regime for 40 years."

"It's very sad that Hilary Clinton went to the Jewish Wailing Wall and forgot the real crying wall is the Palestinian wall...the apartheid wall... the wall is not for defense, but to keep this conflict permanent."

"Israel is only a democracy if you are a Jew."

In 2006, American Israeli, Jeff Halper, Founder and Coordinator of Israeli Committee Against House Demolitions and a Noble Peace Prize Nominee for 2006, told me: "Israel is a not a democracy but is an Ethnocracy, meaning a country run and controlled by a national group with some democratic elements but set up with Jews in control and structured to keep them in control."




WAWA:
http://www.wearewideawake.org/

[bahrbearian]

18. Great post, thanks for link.

[piesRsquare]

19. Yeah, Heaven forbid there be ONE Jewish State on the planet...

Can't have that. Of course, 34 Muslim (35 when the Palestinians get theirs), at least 2 Buddhist (that I know of), at least one Hindu, who knows how many Catholic, at least one Anglican, at least one Confucian, and a few Eastern Orthodox (including Russian, Greek) countries, it's no doubt an international crime to even THINK about ONE teeny-tiny Jewish country, right?

:sarcasm:

[0007]

24. Show how that arrow missed it mark!

[glowing]

25. I think the point with this info is to realize that there is a huge lobbying

push from Israel on our politicians. They must be hugely successful, because they receive lots of money and arms and enjoy a very lucrative ally-ship.

Lets not be mistaken. There have been atrocities that "man" inflict on other "man" for centuries. Where ever there is a divisive line drawn on a map, there is another "man" wanting to erase that line and take more for themselves. Seriously, as badly as anyone can speak of Israel, no one can match the oh so awesome strength of the USA and all its unchecked nuclear plants, arms, and b.s. we get away with. And instead of discriminating against just muslims, we get to add to that, anyone with any type of color, accent, or female body parts... all the while our politicians scream of how great Amerika is and how patriotic they are with their stupid little pins, and people are literally stuggling to survive one day to the next. Rome fell because of arrogance... This country will fall because of stupidity and the idiot sitting on the thrown watching it burn down to the ground.

[Chulanowa]

26. There's a Confucian state?

Oh, please, do tell.

[sellitman]

29. There is a name for this.

But......I'd rather not get TS'ed tonight.

The amazing thing is at least 75% of US Jews like myself always vote Democratic despite the one sided rhetoric of our fellow Liberals.

Go figure.



:shrug:

[Lurking Dem]

30. I can't believe you are back.

I thought you were tombstoned here shortly after you got kicked off of dkos?

And I love how everyone loves the post that agrees with them from a known anti-Semite who has "conversations" with G-d and sees angels.

What a world.

[IndianaGreen]

32. I find myself in rare agreement with Lurking Dem

Oh, well, C'est la vie!

[Lurking Dem]

36. Hey! Don't be disappointed!

LOL!

[Name removed]

34. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

35. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Lurking Dem]

37. So if David Duke posts here

we can't call him what he is?

This woman is known all over the web for her shit.

[Puglover]

38. I just read her post and although honestly

I have never heard of her before. Her post seemed reasonable to me. I don't run a background check on every bit of casual reading that I do on the net. Whatever the case, calling someone a "nazi piece of filth" true or not true is against DU rules. If she is what she is, alert the mods and let them deal with it. Is that so terribly hard to swallow. Like it or not DU isn't your living room where you get to do whatever you want. :hi:

Amy Goodman and Democracy Now have regularly reported on Vanunu's situation. Are they "Nazi filth" as well?

Edit for last sentence and clarity.

[Lurking Dem]

41. I alert every time I see her post on DU.

She advertises on a hate site that refers to Daily Kos as Daily Kosher and cross posted her articles there.

She says things like "Jews remain a traumatized people and their Holocaust hangover affects all of us."

"Israel is a sick state! Every years sees an increase in spouse and child abuse, drug and alcohol addictions, and more and more Israeli children are living under the poverty line."

[Puglover]

42. Ah thanks for the info.

Like I said, the article that she posted was reasonable. I honestly have never heard of her before today.

[Name removed]

39. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

40. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[antiimperialist]

31. AIPAC is dangerous and powerful

We should be afraid of AIPAC, and be wary of its operations.

[0007]

43. Yes Sir! Its operations are not even questionable they are

beyond the pale.

[MasonJar]

44. There was an article on DU last week which said that many important

Jewish-Americans and many Israelis do not like the tactics of AIPAC. Being against that organization and its unfair treatment of those who do not agree with it is not being anti-Israel.