JFK lost the Cuban Missile Crisis

[underpants]

I ran across this Letter to the Editor this morning. This is at least the third time I have read this sentiment in the last month or so. A quick google search turned up what appears to be the REVISED conservative conventional wisdom on this. Just a heads up.

Letters To The Editor

Saturday, Feb 23, 2008 - 12:09 AM
On-the-Job-Training Isn't for Presidents
Obama does remind me of another young senator, John Kennedy, who became president and proceeded to embarrass the nation with the failed Bay of Pigs invasion of Cuba. Not to be outdone by that fiasco, in February 1962 he caused a very serious meltdown in the stock market by going on national television and forcing the steel companies to rescind their recent price increase. Then there was the Cuban missile crisis when Soviet Premier Nikita Krushchev, who had met Kennedy and considered him a novice, decided to put Russian missiles in Cuba -- which almost caused World War III.
http://www.inrich.com/cva/ric/opinion/letters.apx.-content-articles-RTD-2008-02-23-0018.html


The result was the Cuban Missile crisis, which almost started World War III, where Kennedy was essentially given the choice to ignore the threat/bluff, which would only encourage aggression in many other places backed by Soviet nukes, or put a line in the sand…luckily Bobby Kennedy and others stopped a Cuban invasion and the blockade was suggested.
He did the latter, and the Kremlin backed down.

The point of all of this is that weakness invites attacks.
http://www.bloggernews.net/113445

What Ted (and the media) ignored is that Harry Truman had a point. The Cuban Missile Crisis resulted from Soviet Premier Nikita Khrushchev's impression, as a result of the Bay of Pigs fiasco and a personal meeting with JFK in Vienna, that JFK would not be strong enough to keep the Soviet Union from installing long-range nuclear missiles in Cuba. Yes, JFK got those missiles out, after taking the world to the brink of nuclear war, and only gave up some American missiles in Turkey in the bargain. But the truth is that JFK was NOT ready to be President on Day One, as the Bay of Pigs fiasco itself conclusively demonstrated. Instead of a successful operation, or no operation, JFK bungled the long-planned liberation of Cuba from the dictatorship of Fidel Castro as badly as possible: by allowing the attack to begin and then denying air cover to the would-be Cuban liberators.
http://www.renewamerica.us/columns/gaynor/080129

[papau]

1. that will be the McCain line that while Hillary was accepted as possible C in C - Obama is not - the

polls now giving Obama a lead over McCain will tighten and possible reverse if Obama is nominated.

Sounds like a Rove idea. This is great that the Democrat party can be controled by the Rethugs and for what end. More and more I feel not only are Democrats going to lose the Presidency in the General Election but we are going to lose Congress in the fall because we have fallen for Rethug BS again.

http://ironmyvote.com/obamas-popular-vote.htm

From a "Republicans for Obama" website:

http://ironmyvote.com/obamas-popular-vote.htm

Its on a site called Republicans for obama in texas
Home » Groups » Texas R.F.O. Primary Petition for Obama
E-mail to send to all your Republican friends
Sat, 02/16/2008 - 10:41pm
Attention All Texas Republicans and Independents!!
On March 4th, Texas Republicans and Independents will have an opportunity to end Hillary Clinton’s (and Bill’s) presidential ambitions once and for all!
Since Texas has on open primary, Republicans and Independents should sign in at their polling place and request a Democratic ballot. They should then vote for Barack Obama. Even James Carville admits that if Hillary loses Texas, “she’s done!” Republicans can help make this a reality!!! Just think, no more Clintons in the White House!
Voting Democratic this one time will have NO effect on your ability to vote in the next Republican primary or obviously on your vote in November. Since John McCain has the Republican nomination locked up, voting for McCain or Huckabee at this point will have no effect on the outcome on the Republican side.
After you vote during early voting or on March 4th, you ARE NOT done! Report back to your regular polling place at 7PM on March 4th to sign the Barack Obama list for caucus delegates. In a little known Texas voting quirk, 67 delegates to the Democratic convention will be seated because of these caucuses. This is a full one-third of the total number of Texas delegates. For Hillary to lose, she has to lose the primary votes AND the caucus votes. I urge you to vote against Hillary Clinton by voting for Barack Obama.
Please forward this e-mail to all your Republican and Independent friends so that we can help ensure the Clinton’s defeat on March 4th!!!


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Similar instructions from the Obama campaign:

Here’s a video from the Obama campaign

Slickly produced, promoting their “Democrat for a Day” scheme: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JUE4Kp0YERs

Obama Web page in Florida:

The following has been scrubbed from the web but was up for months at an Obama campaign site:
Quoting from the Google cache “as retrieved on Nov 30, 2007 02:11:00 GMT”
http:/ / www.google.com/search?q=cache:MVQ9FvgfVwoJ:www.obamaflo...

WANNA BECOME AN OBAMACRAT?!!!
By Obama Florida 2008
Published: April 24, 2007
….
That’s why “Democrat for a Day” was launched this spring by ObamaFlorida2008. Using the official forms provided by all Supervisors of Elections offices, you may re-register as a Democrat for that one day — when the primary is likely to be held — on February 5, 2008. You must do so before the end of 2007, to make sure it is done 30 days before the primary.
But this is not about some “hard sell” to recruit voters to become permanent Democrats. Not at all. After the primary, you may re-register back to the Republican or Libertarian parties, or revert to your previous status as an Independent! There will be plenty of time before the general election in November 2008.
….
But we’re finding that up to 20 percent of Obama supporters are registered Republicans.
In fact, during the first couple of weeks in April, some 150 Republicans indeed became “Democrats for a Day.” You might call them “Obamacrats!”

Obama Flyer in Nevada:

A flyer was distributed in Nevada by an Obama precinct captain, similar to the above Florida page - http://www.taylormarsh.com/archives_view.php?id=26826


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Similar efforts:

Dick Morris’ explicit instructions to Republicans: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yt_jnhsyqg0

Obama’s Democrat for a Day training video: http://www . youtube.com/watch?v=JUE4Kp0YERs

MSNBC’s Chris Matthews on 2-19-2008 also talked about Republicans having "some fun" voting for Obama:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23255694 /
MATTHEWS: Let me talk to you. Let me go right now, Ron, is that your theory, that—well, it‘s mine, too—that if you can vote if you‘re a moderate or independent voter or you‘re a Republican who doesn‘t think it‘s important to vote on the Republican side, since it‘s locked up for McCain, have some fun and vote for somebody you have sort of an interest in, Barack Obama, perhaps?


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

More leads
-- we need to collect evidence of GOP crossover in many different locales, so that the superdelegates in each locale will understand where Obama's 'popular' vote is coming from

news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080222/ap_on_el_pr/open_primaries_1


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

If anyone has more evidence to add, pls email 1950democrat - a t - g m a i l . c o m or post it at http://1950democrat.livejournal.com/55788.html (may not appear immediately).

[truedelphi]

14. The movie "Thirteen Days" was a detailed and thoughtful look

At the Cuban Missile Crisis.

Autumn, 1962, I remember the churches in Chicago being flooded with petitioners; I remember standing at the corner of 89th and Loomis and several old geezers (gosh I'm now the age they were then!) and one of them looked at me and the gang of kids I was with and remarked sadly to his friends, "If Kennedy doesn't turn this around, none of this will be here tomorrow."

[earthlover]

2. Kruschev lost the Cuban Missile Crisis

He didn't last long as leader of Russia after a total defeat like that.

He was replaced by the military, and one of the major reasons was the Cuban Missile Crisis

This story has no legs. Kennedy rose to the occassion during the Cuban Missile Crisis. If he had listened to the experienced military brass, we probably would have had a nuclear war....

[izquierdista]

3. Wrong.....wrong......wrong

He lasted two more years, until past his 70th birthday. By that time, Brezhnev had collected enough favors to oust him. While Kruschev was actually trying to improve the country, Brezhnev was getting ready to loot it until it collapsed (which he succeeded at).

Military? Brezhnev? It's true he was a general during the war, but when he died it was suggested that he should be buried at the Tomb of the Unknown Soldier, because no one knew what he actually did during the war.

Kruschev did get something in return for backing down; the US backed off on their plan to install more offensive weapons in Greece and Turkey. Kennedy was wise to realize it for what is was, Soviet gamesmanship designed to make the US back off in another area. So a few months later, the US backed down very quietly.

[earthlover]

5. Great article on the Cuban Missile Crisis

http://encarta.msn.com/encyclopedia_761579929_2/cuban_missile_crisis.html

From it:

"The apparent capitulation of the USSR in the standoff was instrumental in Khrushchev's being deposed as leader of the USSR in 1964. The younger Soviet leaders who ousted Khrushchev perceived his action during the crisis as weak and indecisive. This perception, combined with other foreign policy setbacks and difficulties meeting his goals for domestic programs, contributed to his removal from power."

[mrcheerful]

4. Now now now, don't be confusing our friends on the other side with facts

Just go along and have a good laugh because the only ones who would believe this crap are the ones young enough not to have been born at the time and home schooled by wing nuts. Thank you GW pencil dick for NCLB, now you have a generation of young americans who know nothing about history or civics. What a great thing you did for the country, Chairman Mao would be proud that you have shown him to be a man of vision. Remember Mao always said americas greed would be her down fall.

[underpants]

9. Nail on head

They have been rewriting history (even recent history) as an arm of their political functions now they can make the answer to question #47 in American history be C. JFK lost due to the perception of weakness

Question #48. The lies that created the Mai Lai massacre were:

[bemildred]

6. You gotta wonder why they want to bring this up now.

Is there a lack of scholarship about Kennedy and the Cuban Missile Crisis? My guess is it's about repeating the "you can't look weak" meme over and over again. As though international affairs was just a matter of looking tough. The French tried the attack, attack, attack idea pretty thoroughly in WWI, and it didn't work worth a damn. George W. Bush has done little else but posture and try to look tough, and what has that produced? I'm not a fan of Kennedy, but this is just horseshit.

[earthlover]

11. Seems politically motivated....swiftboat JFK and make Obama look weak too

Nothing like killing two good democrats with one blow!

Except it is bullshit.

[Faygo Kid]

7. The Bay of Pigs was hatched by the experienced Eisenhower administration

JFK went along with the "experienced" hands who hatched this turkey idea. Bad idea, and he accepted responsibility. Later, his judgment made the difference.

Gee, nobody accused Dick Cheney of "inexperience." This whole line of argument about "experience" is the biggest pantload this side of the latest Taylor Marsh column.

Give me judgment any day. And her "experience" - First Lady, Wal-Mart Board, etc. isn't better than Obama's, anyway. She's traveled to more countries. So has Cheney.

[bemildred]

8. Yeah, it was another CIA fuckup. nt

[earthlover]

12. They are trying to say JFK was weak on foreign policy due to lack of experience....

....Hmmm....if I were arguing with a Republican in the GENERAL ELECTION there would be a very easy refutation. Just point out that Ronald Reagan had hardly any foreign policy experience (only two terms as a governor, and a lot of time spent as an actor) when he was elected, and ask the Republican if he thought Reagan was weak on foreign policy!

I think it can safely be said that nobody has the experience to be president of the United States. "During his few weeks as Vice President, Harry S Truman scarcely saw President Roosevelt, and received no briefing on the development of the atomic bomb or the unfolding difficulties with Soviet Russia. Suddenly these and a host of other wartime problems became Truman's to solve when, on April 12, 1945, he became President. He told reporters, "I felt like the moon, the stars, and all the planets had fallen on me." http://www.whitehouse.gov/history/presidents/ht33.html

Truman rose to the occasion. So have many presidents.

Speaking of experience, what experience did Abe Lincoln have before he was elected? No foreign policy experience. He had a few years in the House and some time spent in the Illinois legislature.

Abe grew with the job. Nobody can say that they have the experience required to be president. The job transcends experience, or at least there are more things that make a great president than experience alone.

If the presidency was a six cylinder engine, one cylinder would be experience....it takes a heck of a lot more than experience to be a president. Otherwise, we would be better served by a monarchy instead of getting all these new inexperienced leaders into the mix....

[truedelphi]

15. Actually they sprung it on him - he offered his support only because the CIA already had

Set it in motion.

Dulles was in on the planning of it. And George Walker Bush was involved as well.

[yurbud]

10. if conservative conventional wisdom had been followed in missile crisis, would have been nuke war

[JPZenger]

13. JFK Used Good Judgement that Avoided War

Some of the top military officials (such as Air Force General Curtis LeMay) were urging an all out attack on Cuba. The US population was stocking up their bomb shelters.

JFK kept his calm and used GOOD JUDGEMENT to avoid over-escalating the conflict. He used GOOD JUDGEMENT to find out what the Soviets cared out, so they felt they were also getting something in return for removing the missiles. Our big concern was that nuclear missiles so close to our country did not give us time to respond in the event of a sneak attack. JFK realized that the Soviets felt the same way about our missiles in Turkey.

Instead of posturing and screaming, JFK opened up lines of communication with the Soviet leaders. He believed in TALKING to leaders of countries that were involved in conflicts with us.

JFK fought in WWII and realized that he could not unnecessarily risk the lives of servicepersons in some type of cowboy adventure.

It was a peaceful conclusion instead of war. The missiles were removed, and no one died.

Today, Obama is being criticized because he said he wants to sit down and talk to the leaders of our enemies, including North Korea, Syria, etc. We should always be willing to talk.