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Joanne98 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-23-08 03:41 PM
Original message
When Christianity Is UnAmerican

Approximately three out of four Americans identify as Christian (77% in 2001, according to a survey by the Barna Group). Phrases inscribed on the U.S. currency or recited in oaths in American classrooms and courtrooms have led some to claim that America is a Christian nation. Christian nationalists and revisionists are reinterpreting the original intent of America's founding documents, to illustrate that America’s wall of separation was built to protect churches from state intervention, and not the other way around. But my object here is not to engage the revisionists. This task has been accomplished admirably elsewhere.<1> My purpose is merely to outline discrepancies between an authoritarian ideology (commonly mis-identified by some of its advocates as a “Christian worldview”) and that of modern liberal democracies, such as America has traditionally been.



There is a growing chasm between the values of America’s founders and the values of the theocratic Christian right, who claim that their version of authoritarianism is a more authentic interpretation of American values than the Enlightenment values so cherished by our nation’s forebears. But their values are irreconcilable with those of America’s past. Hence they are not giving a more authentic interpretation of American values but replacing those values with an entirely different doctrine, while attempting to transfer the prestige of the label American to their own antithetical doctrines. This prestige is not theirs to own, however, as it comes from the very principles they reject. As with all of the debates they have undertaken to win their culture war the Christian right’s pundits control the cultural conversation by controlling the discourse -- shifting the meanings of words to reflect an agenda alien to the referents that once gave those words their meaning. The best way to stop this abuse of language is to refuse to accept their terms, and to demand that they define them before deploying them in new contexts with new referents.



Since one of the key words the authoritarian Christian nationalists have grossly distorted is “Christianity” itself, it will be necessary to clarify my own terms before I proceed with my critique of the so-called “Christian worldview.” It is rather misleading to refer to America’s politicized theocratic movement as Christian (their preferred term), because the word has so many different referents, many of which bear no resemblance to this movement. To allow this network of politically active social conservatives to monopolize the term Christian is grossly misleading. I prefer theocrats because it more accurately describes the values this movement represents. It seems the proper question is not whether it is ‘Christian’ to be homophobic, feminist, or “anti-contraception and anti-abortion”.<2> Rather, the question is whether the word ‘Christianity’ refers to any single thing. Mainline moderate Christians concede too much to their theocratic rivals by taking for granted the unity and coherence of the New Testament (i.e. the Christian Bible).



There has simply never been a coherent Christian moral philosophy capable of reconciling the inherent tension between the Synoptic Gospels and Paul’s letters. The latter are commentaries on the significance of Jesus’ life, death and resurrection for human salvation. Paul demonstrates astonishingly little knowledge of, or interest in, the traditions about Jesus. This, according to Dr. John Ziesler, is “one of the strangest and most puzzling areas of early Christianity.”<3> The West has no single, coherent basis for ‘Christian’ ethics because the New Testament contains two conflicting ethical systems. One can be traced to the traditions of the followers of the historical and fully human Jesus of Nazareth (i.e. the ‘Q’ source), and the other takes its authority from the salvation-by-atonement interpretation of Jesus’ death found in Paul’s epistles.

http://www.yuricareport.com/Dominionism/Murray_WhenChristianityIsUnAmerican.html


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Mythsaje Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-23-08 03:58 PM
Response to Original message
1. Saul/Paul was a misanthropic, misogynistic putz.
And I say that with all the respect he's due.

Fell off his donkey onto his ass and FOUND God. What a twit.
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Joanne98 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-23-08 04:02 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. Lol. All I know is that this country was founded on The Enlightenment
And tha's not what the christian right is saying. They ARE unamerican.
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Mythsaje Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-23-08 04:45 PM
Response to Reply #3
5. AND they want "special rights."
THEY want to be able to discriminate against people based on their religious beliefs, they want to be able to dictate to others what kind of medication they receive, they want to be able to commit verbal assault and libel and slander others based on their religious beliefs. THEY want to be able to call people "demon-possessed" with no actual evidence to back them up, and GET AWAY WITH IT.

THOSE are "special rights" in my opinion. And they DON'T deserve them.
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mwb970 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-24-08 08:59 AM
Response to Reply #3
6. At some point it comes down to the Christian Right vs. America.
Edited on Sun Feb-24-08 09:00 AM by mwb970
These faux "Christians" screeching from the right are obviously not on the "American" side of the debate. They want to take over our government and make America into an un-democratic theocracy, changing our Constitution to make it "follow God's word" or whatever BS it is that Huckabee is spinning. We used to refer to this as sedition, or treason.

Thank God the religious wackos remain in the minority for now. My money's on America.
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FloridaJudy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-24-08 06:12 PM
Response to Reply #1
14. I sometimes picture God
Clutching Her forehead and bemoaning "Oy! Was that ever a mistake! I should've just let that jerk keep going to Damascus. What was I thinking?" I imagine even God has off days sometimes, and that was one of them.
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Kitty Herder Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-25-08 10:29 AM
Response to Reply #1
15. My sentiments exactly. nt
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nikto Donating Member (414 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-23-08 04:01 PM
Response to Original message
2. In essence and spirit, are fundamentalist Christians truly Americans?
IMO, no.

THEIR CHOICE, too.
:shrug:
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Kitty Herder Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-25-08 10:31 AM
Response to Reply #2
16. It's not up to us to decide who is truly American. And, fortunately, it's not
up to the fundy Christians, either. If it was, they would only include their own kind.

Do they stand for truly American ideals? In my opinion, no. But that doesn't mean they aren't Americans.
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AndyTiedye Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-23-08 04:36 PM
Response to Original message
4. KickedykickedyKick and Recommend
:kick:

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verges Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-24-08 11:24 AM
Response to Original message
7. K/R
K/R
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Irishonly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-24-08 11:55 AM
Response to Original message
8. K&R
The Christian right does not represent real America. The MSM likes to pretend they do, but until the rest of us stop fighting them, they don't. I see their type of Christianity as dangerous both to people and for our country. When the founding fathers said separation of church and state, it's clear what they meant.
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ravencalling Donating Member (247 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-24-08 12:06 PM
Response to Original message
9. This part of the article...
"Paul would not even tolerate men wearing long hair, never mind equal rights for women, freedom for slaves, homosexuality, adultery or divorce".

Far right cultists that call themselves Christians, as a front, have no tolerance, and for their theocratic Un-American views, neither should we. We are WAY too nice to these people, IMO, instead of calling them out for what they are.





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yellerpup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-24-08 01:01 PM
Response to Original message
10. Refutations on Our Christian Nation
Please excuse my ignorance in knowing how to post. I just added a page to my journal at: http://journals.democraticunderground.com/yellerpup/7 because I didn't want to hijack this very interesting thread. I dug up reference to the founding father's intent IN THEIR OWN WORDS that I often send to people who ask me to pray for 'Murica' or use my vote to force fellow citizens to 'get back to god'.
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starroute Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-24-08 01:32 PM
Response to Original message
11. Call them what they are -- Christofascists
What these guys are up to goes way beyond even Paul's uptight, salvation-obsessed moralism. Instead, they are all about hierarchy, elitism, submission to authority, and the eradication of individual rights. The fact that they will blatantly lie, distort, and rewrite history in pursuit of their goals is just part of the package. They have no higher standards -- no objective except absolute power. They are fascists, pushing a political credo, and long ago abandoned any last shred of religious authenticity.

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pingzing58 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-24-08 03:26 PM
Response to Original message
12. I've been looking for a post like this, wonderful. Let's keep talking. I can't right now but I'l
be back.
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MasonJar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-24-08 04:19 PM
Response to Original message
13. The simple truth is that there is nothing Christian about the so-called
Christian right; to call them Christians is blasphemous.
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