For Indiana Voters, Talk of Change May Fall Flat

[underpants]

Source: NY Times

KOKOMO, Ind. — With all the talk among the Democratic presidential hopefuls about change, they may wish to consider this as they wander Indiana: People here practically revolted a few years ago when their governor, Mitch Daniels, pushed to change to daylight saving time like most of the country.

“We hold onto a lot of traditional values,” said Brian L. Thomas, 39, as he bought a cup of coffee along the courthouse square here on Wednesday. “Saying you’re ready to change is probably not the best or only thing you would want to say around these parts. Frankly, we want it to be like it used to be.”

“What are we going to change to?” asked Ron O’Bryan, 58, a retired auto worker who said he was still trying to decide which Democrat to vote for in the May 6 primary. “You mean change to some other country’s system? What do you think they mean?”

Northwest Indiana, often viewed as an extension of suburban Chicago and sharing Chicago’s television market, is seen as strong territory for Mr. Obama, who lives on the South Side of Chicago. Indianapolis, the state capital, which includes a large segment of Indiana’s 9 percent African-American population, is also expected to lean toward Mr. Obama. In the blue-collar, rural parts south of Indianapolis, where the residents often have stronger links to Kentucky than to Illinois (or even Indiana), Mrs. Clinton is expected to have the advantage.



Read more: http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/24/us/politics/24indiana.html?_r=1&hp&oref=slogin

[sinkingfeeling]

1. Why, yes. We intend to change the country to a democracy instead of a dictatorship, you blithering

fool!

[brentspeak]

8. Actually, that voter is correct to ask his question.

It's Obama's responsibility as a candidate to define clearly what he means by "change". He hasn't done that. I don't really know what Obama means by "change", and I'm a (lukewarm) supporter. A lot of the more die-hard Obama supporters I speak to have trouble articulating what Obama means by "change".

[sinkingfeeling]

9. All 3 candidates have talked about 'change' and my comments were not limited to Obama.

[brentspeak]

10. Obama's the candidate who's platform is centered on the word "change"

He co-opted it from Edwards; Hillary co-opted it from Obama; and McSame co-opted it from all the Democrats.

However, Obama is one who's riding on "change":

[Avalux]

2. So they are happy with things the way they are?

Reality check for Mr. Thomas: Things will never go back to how they used to be, no matter how much you wish for it. Electing Hillary Clinton will not bring back what you percieve as the good ol' days of Bill Clinton's administration.

The economy and our foreign policy are a giant trainwreck and we need someone who can change that. WAKE THE FUCK UP.

[awoke_in_2003]

14. That reminds me

whomever wins this primary, they should steal a line from rayguns- "are you better of now than you were 8 years ago?"

[DefenseLawyer]

3. Hey we talked to two guys in Kokomo!

So now we know what everyone in Indiana thinks!

[underpants]

5. I thought that as well

Didn't the Dems pick up THREE HOUSE SEATS in 2006 in Indiana????

to be honest these two guys in Kokomo pretty much confirm what I already thought about Indiana.....seems the NYT was satisfied with that as well :silly:

[nels25]

15. Raining on your parade

while it would be nice to think that hanging on to those seats will be simple.

The fact is that those seats are in historically conservative areas, and holding on to them in the long term is probably a bet I would be skeptical to make.

We may hold them in 08, but in 10??

You see we all assume that the GOP when they take their deserved beating this fall will fade into the woodwork of history never to be heard from again, and all will be sweetness and light under the leadership of the Democratic party.

Problem is that it rarely works that way, don't believe me then just check the history books.

With the advent of the internet, cable and 24 hour news cycles, IMHO it is going to be next to impossible to keep political power for long periods of time as the Democrats were able to pull off (at least in the legislative branch) from 32 - 94.

So it is incumbent on us to rule well when we get our chance, we could learn from Bush's mistake (yeah I know that it is impolitic but hear me out) if we move to fast in a so called left direction, then we will run the risk of going farther than the nation as a whole was willing to go, this is the big mistake the GOP made.

OTOH one of the things that President Bill Clinton failed to learn is that when you do have power and you are trying to pass something reasonably popular (see health care reform circa 1993) and you have the legislative branch of government in your parties control. Then go ahead and pass your initiatives, and in effect dare the opposing party to undo it when (and believe me there will be a when) they get power again (this is what we as a party face with the Bush tax cuts). There are numerous examples of this in the last 100 years. Woodrow Wilson especially understood this.
He was certain that his legislative majority would not last past one congress (and he was right) so he passed things such as income tax and the GOP could not undue it.

Anyway a little common sense and humility will go a long way and do us much good when we assume power next January.:think:

[underpants]

16. I wasn't counting on holding onto them

I was just remarking that there might be more openness to change than this article says that there is.

Great points too. :thumbsup:

[nels25]

17. Now there you may be on to something

what I woudl be very interested in is how well Obama does in those districts.

Let us say he does reasonably well, then my thesis may be open to debate, ane those seat may well be easier to retain than I think.

I would like my last post to be proven wrong.
:hi:

[DJ13]

4. Change is soooo over rated

Lets stick with what we KNOW doesnt work!

Right Indiana?

:sarcasm:

[Indenturedebtor]

6. Relax

You could find a fool like this in any state.

"What are you gonna do, make us French?" This guy probably votes Puke anyways heh

[DinahMoeHum]

7. Fuck 'em. Let them lose their kids in Iraq and their jobs. . .

and their houses. Serve them right for voting Republikkkan.

There comes a point where you just cannot fix stupid.

And if they come begging to me for a life preserver - I'll throw them an anchor.

[DrZeeLit]

11. "Frankly, we want it to be like it used to be"??? Wellllcome to:

outdoor plumbing
polio
measles (might be coming back?)
smallpox
tuberculosis
no MRI, CTScan, imaging of any sort except XRay (that worked for Marie Curie, right?)
no antibiotics
no bypass surgery, no stints, not much chance of surviving a heart attack

and that's all I could think of in the short 10 seconds as I typed

segregated facilities (not that schools are much better these days)(but..I'm just sayin')

no computers (and here we add anything remotely connected to computers, like research...)
no reasonable air travel, less highway system, spewing autos


my mind is boggled by this... the list is ENDLESS.

Does Mr. O'Bryan (who is slightly older than moi) reeeeeeeally wanna go back?

Yeah, I loved the sixties, too. Oh, and the fifties. And don't forget the forties.
Such a time for women and kids and minorities, huh?

Yep, let's just Leave It to Beaver, shall we?

[underpants]

12. He wants it like when Hickory won the state title

[GoesTo11]

13. Don't worry. Secretary of Hoosier Affairs is advising on voter concerns

[brentspeak]

18. ???

[GoesTo11]

19. John Mellencamp - Indiana's pride & joy - held a rally for Obama

He generally sings about the concerns of people in areas like his.

Scarecrow, the title song of the album pictured, is just perfectly crafted.

[704wipes]

20. what about orville?

redenbacher