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Krugman came out against dumping the gas tax when George W. Bush proposed it.

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dkf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-28-08 12:45 AM
Original message
Krugman came out against dumping the gas tax when George W. Bush proposed it.
Edited on Mon Apr-28-08 12:48 AM by dkf
Now lets see if he'll do the same when his girl proposes the same thing...

I'm calling you OUT Paul Krugman!

http://www.pkarchive.org/column/31500.html

GASOLINE TAX FOLLIES

SYNOPSIS: Ending a gas tax is subsidizing OPEC. It solves nothing for Americans

Teachers of economics cherish bad policies. For example, if New York ever ends rent control, we will lose a prime example of what happens when you try to defy the law of supply and demand. And so we should always be thankful when an important politician makes a really bad policy proposal.

Last week George W. Bush graciously obliged, by advocating a reduction in gasoline taxes to offset the current spike in prices. This proposal is a perfect illustration of why we need economic analysis to figure out the true "incidence" of taxes: the people who really pay for a tax increase, or benefit from a tax cut, are often not those who literally fork over the cash. In this case, cutting gasoline taxes would do little if anything to reduce the price motorists pay at the pump. It would, however, provide a windfall both to U.S. oil refiners and to the Organization of Petroleum Exporting Countries.

Let's start with why the oil cartel should love this proposal. Put yourself in the position of an OPEC minister: What sets the limits to how high you want to push oil prices? The answer is that you are afraid that too high a price will lead people to use less gasoline, heating oil and so on, cutting into your exports. Suppose, however, that you can count on the U.S. government to reduce gasoline taxes whenever the price of crude oil rises. Then Americans are less likely to reduce their oil consumption if you conspire to drive prices up -- which makes such a conspiracy a considerably more attractive proposition.

Anyway, in the short run -- and what we have right now is a short-run gasoline shortage -- cutting gas taxes probably won't even temporarily reduce prices at the pump. The quantity of oil available for U.S. consumption over the near future is pretty much a fixed number: the inventories on hand plus the supplies already en route from the Middle East. Even if OPEC increases its output next month, supplies are likely to be limited for a couple more months. The rising price of gasoline to consumers is in effect the market's way of rationing that limited supply of oil.

Now suppose that we were to cut gasoline taxes. If the price of gas at the pump were to fall, motorists would buy more gas. But there isn't any more gas, so the price at the pump, inclusive of the lowered tax, would quickly be bid right back up to the pre-tax-cut level. And that means that any cut in taxes would show up not in a lower price at the pump, but in a higher price paid to distributors. In other words, the benefits of the tax cut would flow not to consumers but to other parties, mainly the domestic oil refining industry. (As the textbooks will tell you, reducing the tax rate on an inelastically supplied good benefits the sellers, not the buyers.)

A cynic might suggest that that is the point. But I'd rather think that Mr. Bush isn't deliberately trying to throw his friends in the oil industry a few extra billions; I prefer to believe that the candidate, or whichever adviser decided to make gasoline taxes an issue, was playing a political rather than a financial game.
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DJ13 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-28-08 12:50 AM
Response to Original message
1. You know he will now think its a great idea
In the last year Krugman has become nothing but a hack when he's not writing specifically about general economic conditions.

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dkf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-28-08 12:57 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. It would be even more of a miracle if he backed up Obama on this.
I would simply fall over.

But, like you I do think he's turned into Hillary's hack. And I really doubt its about the health care mandate. It makes me wonder what he is up to.
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Jim Sagle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-28-08 01:21 AM
Response to Reply #2
3. Luckily, Krugman has just now given his answer.
Edited on Mon Apr-28-08 01:22 AM by Jim Sagle
Bush Made Permanent

By PAUL KRUGMAN
Published: April 28, 2008

As the designated political heir of a deeply unpopular president — according to Gallup, President Bush has the highest disapproval rating recorded in 70 years of polling — John McCain should have little hope of winning in November. In fact, however, current polls show him roughly tied with either Democrat

In part this may reflect the Democrats’ problems. For the most part, however, it probably reflects the perception, eagerly propagated by Mr. McCain’s many admirers in the news media, that he’s very different from Mr. Bush — a responsible guy, a straight talker.

But is this perception at all true? During the 2000 campaign people said much the same thing about Mr. Bush; those of us who looked hard at his policy proposals, especially on taxes, saw the shape of things to come.

After roughing up McCain’s tax plans at length, Krugman concludes:

The impression that Mr. McCain’s tax talk is all about pandering is reinforced by his proposal for a summer gas tax holiday — a measure that would, in fact, do little to help consumers, although it would boost oil industry profits.

So the Krug Man is nobody's shill after all. Aren't you relieved?

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dkf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-28-08 01:30 AM
Response to Reply #3
4. Gosh, I love how he only connected it to McCain and not
Hillary.

And a little one sentence blurb? What a joke!
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Jim Sagle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-28-08 01:45 AM
Response to Reply #4
6. You're the joke if you think Krugman is obliged to support your candidate.
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dkf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-28-08 01:51 AM
Response to Reply #6
7. its called honesty...
He's an economist...he should be discussing the impact of policy on our economy, not shilling for one candidate or another.

This shows me he finds it impossible to be impartial and will not venture an opinion if it goes against his favorite people.
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Jim Sagle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-28-08 01:52 AM
Response to Reply #7
8. No, this showed you the opposite. Stop lying.
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dkf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-28-08 02:33 AM
Response to Reply #8
9. He calls McCain out and not Clinton for the same proposal?
That's a load of BULL. Come on. Gimme a Break.
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Jim Sagle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-28-08 08:50 AM
Response to Reply #9
14. Let me explain something to you. Krugman is pro-Clinton
He's not obligated to change his mind about his candidate based on a gas tax.
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chill_wind Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-28-08 01:39 AM
Response to Original message
5. Thanks for finding and posting this.
Edited on Mon Apr-28-08 01:42 AM by chill_wind
I've been thinking about this exchange between McCain and Obama all day. McCain got his full sour face time on MSM today on the matter.

If they aired anything directly from Obama, I didn't see it. All I caught was a anchor's soundbite--- "Senator Obama sez this is nothing but a cheap McCain scheme and that the gas tax is needed for other badly needed infrastructure." Paraphrasing best I can from memory.
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hokies4ever Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-28-08 05:35 AM
Response to Reply #5
13. Obama will OWN McCain on the gas tax issue
Here's a youtube response from Obama answering a reporter's question about the gax tax while campaigning in Indiana.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=SeAqkIGFIds

McCain's campaign must be strapped for cash, because they can't even afford to pay someone to keep tabs on Obama's campaign. After hearing this answer, McCain needs to tuck tail and run away from this gas tax proposal. I honestly don't see how one can objectively look at McCain's answer and Obama's answer (and also this article) and not realize that McCain is dead wrong on this issue. It's not even close.
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chill_wind Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-28-08 09:23 AM
Response to Reply #13
15. Thank You! n/t
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Skittles Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-28-08 02:37 AM
Response to Original message
10. you need to get some real perspective
just because Mr. Krugman doesn't SWOON over Obama does NOT make him a "hack" and I believe if he doesn't think it is a good idea THAT IS WHAT HE WILL SAY
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depakid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-28-08 03:26 AM
Response to Original message
11. Krugman: either with us or against us
Where have we heard that before?

Hint: http://archives.cnn.com/2001/US/11/06/gen.attack.on.terror/

I often wonder how so many supposed Democrats became so irony impaired.

Not long ago, that was an exclusively Republican disease.





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Skittles Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-29-08 12:11 AM
Response to Reply #11
18. I'm glad someone sees it besides me
people like Krugman, Michael Moore being trashed because THEY DON'T WORSHIP THE CORRECT CANDIDATE :puke:
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johnnydrama Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-28-08 05:20 AM
Response to Original message
12. if they want to stop the gas tax
Why haven't they proposed it in the senate yet?

Are they saying that it is so needed they'll wait January 20th to impose it?
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chill_wind Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-28-08 04:49 PM
Response to Original message
16. Kick n/t
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yurbud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-28-08 09:49 PM
Response to Original message
17. call their bluff, keep the tax, but control the price and cut it by that much.
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