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Senator Covered Up Evidence of P.O.W.'s Left Behind

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fjc Donating Member (700 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-24-04 07:07 PM
Original message
Senator Covered Up Evidence of P.O.W.'s Left Behind


When John Kerry's Courage Went M.I.A.
by Sydney H. Schanberg
February 24th, 2004 1:00 PM


Senator John Kerry, a decorated battle veteran, was courageous as a navy lieutenant in the Vietnam War. But he was not so courageous more than two decades later, when he covered up voluminous evidence that a significant number of live American prisoners—perhaps hundreds—were never acknowledged or returned after the war-ending treaty was signed in January 1973....

http://www.villagevoice.com/issues/0408/schanberg.php
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The Magistrate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-24-04 07:14 PM
Response to Original message
1. This Is Swill, Sir
No such evidence exists; no such prisoners existed. This entire matter is nothing but a reactionary's wet dream, fed by fantasias a la Chuck Norris and Sylvester Stallone.

"Kill one, warn one hundred."

"LET'S GO GET THOSE BUSH BASTARDS!"
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papau Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-24-04 08:10 PM
Response to Reply #1
9. I agree -and the proof is in the fact that folks in photos were eventually
identified - met with - interviewed - and golly - they were native - not US prisoner.

Seems white racists have a problem admitting that all faces show up in all "races", and indeed in all colors and all villages.

The Greeks said one face = one race, meaning we all all one because it is obvious that we have many faces (at least that is how I read the old texts)

And the Romans read that as same nose=same race! wish those Romans had more self-esteem and had less need to claim to be Greek look-alikes!

Indeed the "most beautiful women" images used in the Acropolis statues indeed have "large 'roman' noses"! - proof of something I guess. It is hard to admit you are not special in your looks - only one of many! Someday we will all have enough self-esteem to acknowledge the science fact that race does not exist - only skin color - and skin color means nothing.

But until then there will be reports of US MIA's "seen" - because of the "American features" - in places we have fought wars.

sigh -

and the village voice gives this jackass print - I had always thought better of them - but the new media bosses are not the best.
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Merlin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-25-04 02:04 AM
Response to Reply #1
13. I'm for that!
"Kill one, warn one hundred."
Which one?
:evilgrin:

Truly an excellent post, my friend, on the origins if this noxious mythology about POWS in Nam. It is the stuff of demagoguery designed to exploit and perpetuate the stereotype of the Vietnamese as vile, evil, subhuman "gooks."
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Another Bill C. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-24-04 07:26 PM
Response to Original message
2. Yeah, right.
"He rejected all suggestions that the committee require former presidents Nixon, Ford, Reagan, and George H.W. Bush to testify."

Kerry was covering for four Republican presidents? This really is someone's wet dream.

If it were true, I would expect G.W. to open a new POW inquiry to expose his most likely opponent. I won't be holding my breath.

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deminflorida Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-24-04 07:27 PM
Response to Original message
3. Kerry could have very well become a POW himself.....
Edited on Tue Feb-24-04 07:28 PM by deminflorida
he was there, he was in combat on more than one occasion. He's done alot for the Veteran Community since. Ford, Carter, Reagan could have done more if there really where prisoners in Vietnam.

We're missing a pilot in Iraq as well from Gulf War One in which I participated.

Want to learn more on this subject, go and rent the movie Andersonville about the American Civil War.

These are the prices we pay when we charge hell with a bucket of water and enter into Wars without a REAL justification. The blame for this latest fuck-up lies firmly at the feet of George W. Bush.

The point of this article is??? Another smear on John Kerry, I read it that way and so will the pissed off American Public.
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wellstone_democrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-24-04 07:28 PM
Response to Original message
4. pathetically sad that the Voice publishes this
the whole MIA/POW issue is *hot* where I life (Bible Belt Central) and kept alive by a local who gets loads of money from Perot (MIA/POW Central...)

Its sad to see what these terrible people do to survivors of the lost. Its criminal.
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fjc Donating Member (700 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-24-04 07:38 PM
Response to Original message
5. I didn't post it on its merits, sir.
Edited on Tue Feb-24-04 07:39 PM by fjc
I posted it because it was printed in the fucking Village Voice, not the place you expect this kind of tripe to appear? Get my drift?
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Lydia Leftcoast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-24-04 08:02 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. Even weirder...
Isn't Sydney Schanberg the journalist who was portrayed by Sam Waterston in The Killing Fields?

I remember once hearing a lecture about the Vietnam War by a visiting scholar from Thailand. I asked him about the MIA-POW issue, because the Reaganites were pushing it at the time, and he said that there were a number of deserters from the Vietnam era living in Thailand, involved in the drug and sex trades, living like princes. I don't know if this is true, but it's a thought.

Other writers have claimed that the designation MIA was put on anyone who disappeared during combat but whose body wasn't recovered. This included people in planes that were shot down and exploded upon landing.
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Old and In the Way Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-24-04 08:06 PM
Response to Reply #5
8. Right, your doing it as a PSA.
You obviously didn't post it on its merits....it has none. So why did you post? Just a plain old need to do character assassination?
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-24-04 08:51 PM
Response to Reply #8
10. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Merlin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-25-04 02:07 AM
Response to Reply #5
14. Well at least a hint of the poster's sympathies would be appreciated.
This is such outrageous tripe that it's important to know you don't support it. Otherwise, I'd be blasting you. Comprende'?
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fjc Donating Member (700 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-25-04 08:17 AM
Response to Reply #14
16. I guess some people require warning labels...
Edited on Wed Feb-25-04 08:18 AM by fjc
but I've posted articles critical of democrats here before and until now, no one has complained about an absense of any disclaimers. I post on other pages and when there is something that I think this community does not know about and should, I post it here. I'm interested in how some of the more informed folks here will respond. I guess now I'm getting an idea of how some others respond -- pretty much like conservatives.
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Stuckinthebush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-24-04 08:03 PM
Response to Original message
7. Thanks for posting this
Not because it is true, but because it is necessary to see that this kind of junk can be published in places like the Village Voice.

We must all be vigilant...the oncoming GOP slime machine is starting to roll.

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berry Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-24-04 09:27 PM
Response to Reply #7
11. I agree--it's better to know what's out there.
I found it odd too that the VV would publish such a hit-piece. So I went to see what else Schanberg had written. Apparently, back in the 60s or 70s he wrote for the NYT. I don't know why he left the NYT, but then he was a columnist for Newsday and wrote a TON of articles on the POW issue. He seems to be obsessed with it. I only read a few, but they are more opinion than fact articles--they leave one not knowing who or what to believe. I think the guy is sincere, but this is a bee-in-his-bonnet issue that is definitely going to be used by the WH (unless there's a downside for them that we don't know about). Sigh.

If there were more transparency at all levels of government, these sorts of issues wouldn't arise. I HATE all the secrecy. And considering all the covering up that's going on right now behind closed doors in secret hearings, this old story (if it is a story) about Kerry seems pretty pointless. Oh, and from what I could tell from what I read, Schanberg gives no clue to WHY Kerry might have wanted to cover anything up, except to suggest that he secretly wanted to normalize relations with Vietnam. Huh?

Oh, McCain was also on that POW investigating-committee that Schanberg claims was a cover-up.

His other articles are anti-Bush and also a few critical of Clark (for not being anti-Iraq-war early enough). Does anyone know anything about Schanberg and his motives?
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fearnobush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-25-04 12:57 AM
Response to Original message
12. The Voice editorial leaves out the whole picture, and blame.
Edited on Wed Feb-25-04 01:05 AM by fearnobush
People, This is real a deep rabbit hole that goes back to Nixon - Reagan - Bush 41 - Clinton. This is an issue I think the Bush republicans really want to back away from. Their implications and actions, or lack there of, what was really known about MIA, go much deeper then Kerry's. After 20 years of MIA stories, questions and guesses, Kerry and McCain's committee sought to find closure and will never under any circumstances be left without doubts. This is what the pain of war is about and is why, WAR must ALWAYS be the LAST option.
Reagan refused to comment...

Reagan, now an ex-president, refused to answer any questions on any subject: the committee did not contest his refusal. Bush, who was now president and whose marks were all over this issue from his days as C.I.A. chief in the 1970s, was never even approached. The committee cited "unique concerns about Executive Privilege." And Casey was dead.

Even though he never testified, former Secret Service agent Syphrit was harassed and as a result left the Treasury Department some months ago, after 25 years of government service.

As the years passed, the original human failure -- leaving men behind in the rush to get out -- was compounded by human weakness, as one administration after another saw the overwhelming evidence yet did almost nothing. They either felt powerless to make the Vietnamese give the prisoners back or refused on principle to pay ransom (though the French had done so, successfully, after their Vietnam war). Frozen in a posture of inaction, U.S. officials apparently concluded that telling the truth about the POWs would not only be admitting a national scandal, but would spark a hostage crisis of major proportions, one that Washington did not know how to solve. So they obfuscated and lied. And with each new disclosure of prisoner evidence, the lies had to multiply and swell. Were the truth told, too many Washington careers would be destroyed, too many powerful people burned.

<snip>

Senator John McCain

One of Kerry's fellow debunkers, Senator John McCain, in a radio appearance the next day, brushed off the evidence as "raw files." The Arizona Republican, a cosponsor of the embargo-lifting resolution, said there couldn't have been a secondary prison system "because we would have known about it." But that's exactly what these documents show: That at some point after the war, we did know about it.

In the Senate debate itself, McCain, like Kerry, provided no facts of his own but simply launched into a diversionary tirade against "the professional malcontents, conspiracy mongers, con artists, and dime-store Rambos who attend this issue ..."

The Kerry-McCain resolution passed easily, 62 to 38, and though it was non-binding on the president, it gave him, in McCain's words, "political cover." Within days, Clinton had ended the 19-year-old embargo against trading with Vietnam. Four months later, in May, the two countries announced they were establishing diplomatic missions in each other's capitals, the last step before an exchange of ambassadors and full recognition.

But lifting embargoes and calling intelligence reports "raw files" cannot erase the tangible evidence. In order to knock down intelligence reports such as those above on the prisons, you have to produce further hard information demonstrating convincingly why the earlier reports were not credible. No such further reports have been provided.

POW files

There's a myth in Washington that virtually all the government's POW documents have been declassified and are available to the public. Bush, in 1992, issued the first declassification directive. Clinton, after taking office in 1993, said he had speeded up Bush's executive order, and last November, on Veterans Day, he announced the process completed.

Wonderful. Try finding any of the C.I.A.'s key operational files on POWs in the National Archives or the Library of Congress. Try finding satellite imagery of POW distress signals. Where are the missing memos and cables on the Vietnamese ransom offers? The truth is that the most significant files, from the highest levels of government and the intelligence community, were not covered by the Bush and Clinton executive orders and remain under lock and key.

(Not that declassifying files necessarily brings them to light. The Pentagon, for example, says it sent stacks of declassified National Security Agency documents to the Library of Congress. But here is how one researcher, Roger Hall, described the situation in a letter to The Washington Times:"... the material has been deliberately mislabeled and scattered into different categories. Those who wish access to these documents are thwarted by the deliberate and malicious concealment of information. There is no way for any average citizen -- or expert -- doing research on the POW/MIA issue to find this particular material.")
<http://216.239.41.104/search?q=cache:gEmJFReGPoUJ:www.geocities.com/texanna70/Abandoned2.html+Kerry+MIA+%22cover+up%22+%22not+true%22&hl=en&ie=UTF-8>
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Merlin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-25-04 02:20 AM
Response to Reply #12
15. This is all complete horseshit!
"...There is no way for any average citizen -- or expert -- doing research on the POW/MIA issue to find this particular material."
That's because it doesn't freaking exist!

Damn it! The US government has had teams of investigators in Vietnam for over a decade and they have left no stone unturned, no camp uninvestigated, no story unexamined. It is utterly insane to think the Vietnamese are holding any American's prisoner.

Do these people think the Vietnamese are gouls?


How can the Voice print this crap?


Sorry for yelling. This just really pisses me off. I spent a year and a half in combat over there, and I sure as hell respect the Vietnamese people. All of them. On both sides of the struggle. The supposition that they would deliberately retain prisoners for over 30 years is perposterous beyond description.
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Moderator DU Moderator Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-26-04 12:10 PM
Response to Reply #12
17. fearnobush
Per DU copyright rules
please post only four
paragraphs from the
news source.


Thank you.

DU Moderator
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