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MichaelHarris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-25-04 02:02 PM
Original message
Founding Fathers and Same Sex Marriage
Edited on Wed Feb-25-04 02:47 PM by mharris660
Founding Fathers and Same Sex Marriage

With all the turmoil in the world President Bush chose yesterday to make his position on same sex marriage to the world known. This comes at a time when his popularity is at an all time low. Some would see this move as an “appeasement” to the Christian right he had alienated with his position on immigration and rampant spending. After all it is an election year and appeasement means everything. With his announcement we enter a dangerous time in this country. The introduction of an amendment based on spiritual faith. One can argue that their feelings on same sex marriage are not based in faith. That would leave only one choice. A feeling based on hatred and bigotry. When addressing the issue of same sex marriage we only have two choices, faith based, or hatred and bigotry. When you strip away the hyperbole involved in this debate we are left with the decision of adding an amendment based on those two arguments. Our founding fathers addressed both of those issues in the Declaration of Independence and The Constitution. Both of these documents address the desire to keep the church and state separate, and the need for a society based on equality.

Watching the events in San Francisco unfold, we see a modern day “Tea Party” take place. Men and woman banding together to fight an unjust law imposed on them by a government basing their laws on either hatred and bigotry, or religious beliefs. One only needs to look at the first few lines of the Declaration of Independence to see the merit of their struggle.

“When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.”

Taking into account that our founding fathers were not writing a scientific document we must examine the meaning of the phrase, “Laws of Nature and of Nature’s God”. The use of “Nature’s God” is an interesting choice. It shows a respect for all religious beliefs as well as a glimpse into the future the melting pot the United States would become. A country of various faiths, beliefs, and values. They chose to be “all inclusive” of these peoples. Think outside the box of the physical world and you can see that the “Laws of Nature and of Nature’s God” could include love. The right to love, regardless of sex, race, or religious beliefs. The natural progression of that love is marriage in most cases. The judges, and people in San Francisco have chosen a path based on this belief our founding fathers wrote about, “the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.” A separation from an unjust law, a “Boston Tea Party” if you will. We only need to read a bit more to see their desire for equality in this blossoming country.

“…all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness”

Religious freedom is clearly defined by that statement. The use of, “their Creator” shows a desire by the founding fathers to make religious choice an individual’s decision. We cannot define the rights granted by one’s “Creator”, the individual defines those rights. Based on that statement alone, when using the argument of religion, in respect to same sex marriage, we see their desire to separate themselves from making laws based upon a “general” belief in religion. Religion and choice belong to the individual and the spirituality of a people shall not be governed by man. One has to include marriage in the “the pursuit of Happiness” it is not defined as a marriage between a man and woman. To add an amendment to the Constitution denying that “pursuit of Happiness” would violate the very document written to free us from oppression. The Declaration tells us that,

“whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it.”.

This is not a case of abolishing a government but a case of abolishing an unjust law. It is important to remember that the opposition to same sex marriage has only two arguments. An argument based on religious beliefs, or an argument based on hatred. As we look at this document and compare it to the question we now face one must take this quote into consideration.

“The history of the present King of Great Britain is a history of repeated injuries and usurpations, all having in direct object the establishment of an absolute Tyranny over these States.”

Other than the fact they are both named George, a point I’m sure conspiracy theorists will have a ball with, we see the statement, “Tyranny over these States.” For this the Declaration offers this for an example to the world,

“He has forbidden his Governors to pass Laws of immediate and pressing importance, unless suspended in their operation till his Assent should be obtained; and when so suspended, he has utterly neglected to attend to them”

By adding an amendment to the Constitution our George has done just that, forbid his Governors the right to legislate same sex marriages. Another example the founding fathers offered states,

“He has made Judges dependent on his Will alone, for the tenure of their offices, and the amount and payment of their salaries”

By adding this amendment Bush will have made the Judges dependent on his will alone, whether its based on religion, or bigotry. The recent appointment of Conservative Judges, behind the backs of Congress, shows his will to turn us into a country dependent on his religious beliefs. A nation bound by church and state. A nation not based upon ones own “God of Nature” but of a nation based upon his concept of “God”.

The preamble to the Constitution makes no reference to a nation founded in religious beliefs. The founding fathers realized the dangers in that course of action. Phrases like, “insure domestic tranquility” and, “secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity” are mentioned in the preamble. Making laws based upon a leaders spiritual beliefs cannot insure domestic tranquility nor can secure the blessings of liberty for the “Melting Pot” known as the United States. One only needs to look at nations devoid of a separation of Church and State to see the turmoil this causes. The Middle East should be the Poster Child for separation of Church and State. In fact the very first Amendment of the Constitution addresses that very issue,

“Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances”
Lets take a step back to the Declaration of Independence, to the line,
“…all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness”

Remember the “their Creator” phrase? By making a law banning same sex marriage Congress will be passing a law based on their “Creator” and religious beliefs. In fact, denying an individuals definition of their beliefs and Creator. Imposing a Government religious morality on the populace. Once again I ask you to remember, this argument against same sex marriage has only two positions. First, on religious and spiritual beliefs, in which our Declaration and Constitution address, and secondly a position based on bigotry and racism. Based on the positions taken by the Constitution and the Declaration of Independence The President nor Congress can base pass a law based on their religious or spiritual beliefs. That leaves them with the position of passing a law based upon hatred, racism, and bigotry. Do they want show that position to the world?

Michael Harris
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Caution Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-25-04 02:05 PM
Response to Original message
1. Fantastic!
You need to send that out as a LTTE to some newspapers.

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MichaelHarris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-25-04 02:36 PM
Response to Reply #1
6. Thanks alot.
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AverageJoe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-25-04 02:15 PM
Response to Original message
2. Bravo!
Don't mean to be nosey, but just wondering if you're the well-known library historian Michael Harris. If you're not, you share a name with an outstanding scholar and a damned fine teacher.

Either way, this post is top notch.

:-)
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MichaelHarris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-25-04 02:31 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. No but I wish I was
Naww, I studied Marine Bio at Texas A&M for awhile until the conservative nature of the school drove me away. I did medical research after that.
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orwell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-25-04 02:23 PM
Response to Original message
3. Fear Factor
While much of your logic is sound, I feel that the logical limitations might be a bit of a stretch. In some respects you construct the either/or fallacy.

It seems like that fear could be added to your limited pantheon of causal effects. It is possible for me to fear something without being bigoted, racist, or hateful.

In fact, I would posit fear is a much more likely base emotion than any of the above. It some ways, the others are children of fear.

So maybe the solution set involves and a frank open discussion of value systems, cultural identities, and primal fears, rather than using more negative emotional touch words such as bigotry, hatred and racism.

All in all though, you present some very good Constitutional points. In the end I think the 1st and 14th Amendments say it all.

Thanks for the post.

O
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MichaelHarris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-25-04 02:35 PM
Response to Reply #3
5. Fear
I completely didn't think about fear. Good point. I think when I wrote this I let my lack of fear miss that point. Do you think fear can breed racism and hatred? I should have added that. Thanks for pointing that out.
Michael
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orwell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-25-04 02:57 PM
Response to Reply #5
7. Language Barriers
I think fear is the primal motivating factor. It is quite understandable in the context of self-preservation, the famous fight or flight drive.

Cultural conservatives necessarily must see the world as good and evil, black and white. It fits with the strong father model of family and social values. In some respects authoritarian rule is based on fear. (Daddy will punish me if I do wrong.) They are prewired to see gray areas as dangerous, non black and white threats to their worldview. This releases fear and illogical behavior. After all, what is logical about homophobia, racism, or bigotry.

The key to diffusing this fear is to release it in the conscious mind. This is what self analysis is all about. Once it can be seen at its source, it can be dealt with.

Progressives need to be empathic. It is the cornerstone of our worldview. The Cons are forcing us to abandon our values and adopt there worldview...punishment, retribution, authoritarianism, to answer their direct attacks on our moral values. If we give in to this seduction, we have lost before we begin.

This does not mean we are weak or compliant to their fears. On the contrary. It means we firmly stand up for what we believe in because we believe it is in all of our best interests. We don't want to see anyone unnecessarily in pain, including our adversaries.

Cogent logical arguments such as yours will not resonate if they do not fit the value framework of the people you are trying to convince. In many ways, we must understand our opposition before we can speak with them in language they can understand.

But that should be what we are good at.

O
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WLKjr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-25-04 03:11 PM
Response to Original message
8. Couldn't have been put forth any better
Michael Harris, you 'Get It'.

You are a true patriot and statesman.
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MichaelHarris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-25-04 03:17 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. Thank you :)
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BR_Parkway Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-25-04 05:28 PM
Response to Original message
10. Very well done. You should consider politics n/t
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MichaelHarris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-25-04 06:03 PM
Response to Reply #10
11. They may find a skeleton
If they didn't I'm sure they would make one up.
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foreigncorrespondent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-25-04 11:45 PM
Response to Original message
12. Michael...
...beautifully written, my friend. Once again, you have won my respect all over again.

Please do send it out to the papers, and also send it off to some gay publications like The Advocate, this is something that truly needs to get out there.

Thank you for one of the most eloquent posts I am seen in quite some time.
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MichaelHarris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-26-04 12:18 AM
Response to Reply #12
13. Thank you very much
It means alot to me to hear those kind words. I love to write but I've never been very good at it. I tend to write with my heart and it leaves the reader with incoherent ramblings. I sent it to The Advocate Place you recommended. I hope they can use it.

Once again Thanks,
Michael
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foreigncorrespondent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-26-04 11:45 AM
Response to Reply #13
14. You know what?
Writing from the heart is when someone will truly strike gold.

Sappho always tells me when I am passionate about something, that is when I end up with the best writing. And she is so right. :)

You done good my freind. I hope the Advocate picks it up. :)
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madboehm Donating Member (1 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-26-04 09:43 PM
Response to Original message
15. Of Like Mind
Michael

Very insightful. Amazing how myopic we can be after 200+ years. Also makes you appreciate just how visionary the Constitution was even at conception.

Well done.
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WilliamPitt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-01-04 10:20 PM
Response to Original message
16. Kick
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emetzl Donating Member (15 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-02-04 01:52 AM
Response to Original message
17. I agree
As someone who did not grow up in the US, I'm forever astonished by Bush's ideas of governing roles.
In the words of better men (and women) than me - it is becoming a true deterring democracy

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