Vladimir Putin: 'Georgia? We couldn't just let Russia get a bloody nose'

[bemildred]

Whether prime Minister or President, the man holding forth across the vast dining table was unmistakably Vladimir Putin. Wagging his finger and occasionally clenching his fist, the man who many believe retains the real power in Russia denied that the world was entering a new Cold War, rejected claims that he wanted to restore the Soviet empire and insisted that a fresh arms race in Europe was avoidable.

His immediate concern, he made clear, was to defend his country's much-criticised action in Georgia. He stressed that Russia had no choice. "They attacked South Ossetia with missiles, tanks, heavy artillery and ground troops. What were we supposed to do?"

If his country had not invaded, he said, it would have been like Russia "getting a bloody nose and hanging its head down", and there would be a "second blow" into the north Caucasus.

Reminding his guests that he had been at the Olympics in Beijing when the crisis broke out, Mr Putin said he was "astonished, astounded," by the world media silence on the Georgian aggression. "What did you expect us to do? Respond with a catapult? We punched the aggressor in the face, as all the military text books prescribe."

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/vladimir-putin-georgia-we-couldnt-just-let-russia-get-a-bloody-nose-927110.html

[Sequoia]

1. Thanks for posting.

None of that news here in the US of A(rragance).

[bemildred]

2. It is always refreshs me to see a smart, articulate politician.

Leaving aside the issues, or his reprehensible traits, would it not be nice if politicians here at least TRIED to be this clear and articulate? I get so sick of the pompous imperial blather and trite fear-mongering that we are fed continually.

[Sequoia]

3. I've always liked Putin. He just seemes straight on.

Sharp as a tack and smart too. Why does the USA always have to be such a bully?

[bemildred]

6. Mr Putin has had a hand in some reprehensible things.

The way the problem in Chechnya was handled was not well done. Atrocities were committed. It has Bush-like elements. But the issue and the botching of it pre-date his rise to power, so it's not all his.

Nevertheless, he does seem to be a Russian patriot, unlike for example Mr Bush, who has done great harm to his country and doesn't seem to care. Russian fortunes have improved under Putin, or the Russians think so anyway, and they ought to know. I'm not sure Americans, speaking generally, allow themselves much time for contemplating pResident Bush.

[AZ Criminal JD]

4. "Leaving aside the issues, or his reprehensible traiits"

Other than that Mrs Lincoln, how was the play? He is a ruthless, murdering dictator. Glad you can put that aside.

[bemildred]

5. I assume that was sarcasm?

I know it wasn't wit.

[AZ Criminal JD]

10. Not a bit of sarcasm

[bemildred]

11. Well then, I'm glad that you're glad.

One gets so little praise these days.

[Sequoia]

7. And Bush and Cheney are what ....little innocent lambs?

I don't recall Russia starting a war in Iraq. Hey, remember how the USA overthrew the elected president of Chile and put in our own dictator who disappeared thousands of people. Say, remember Vietnam. Recall how we marched into Hawaii and threw out the Queen. Shall I go on....Cuba, The Phillipines..etcetra, etcetera, etcetera.

[AZ Criminal JD]

9. If you want to go back in history

And match Russian atrocities against the U.S. Russia will lose badly. But if you want to go there.....

[Diclotican]

8. Bamalib

Bamalib

Mr Putin are no great found of democracy, that is true.. But to call him a ruthless murdering dictator, that is absolutely wrong.. If Mr Putin had been that what you are thinking, he would never voluntary stepped down as the Russian President after 8 year as President... He ended his presidency with more than 70% support, something that mr Bush maybe are dreaming of, but never would managed to get, if he then don't blow up some another big building in NYC... Mr Putin are first and foremost an Russian patriot, and a man who want to build a stronger Russia... He is maybe not what "some" would like, but it looks like he could at least honorable in his actions... Yes he is a old KGB man, and know how to work the inside of Russian Byzantine politic, if he had not, he would not have survived first as appointed President of Russia, then survived elections, and then been the next Prime minister. And have the support of the russian Duma, and have managed to get his friend, and ally President Medejev as President..

When it come to Georgia, and the war there. I fear that we in time would understand more to the point who was playing the game there. And I am very afraid that the US have had their hands in the action, when it get Georgia to believe that they could fight the Russian in the two provinces who was out of order.. I fear that your current Vice-President, have a finger in the game. And that he have somehow "convinced" that the current Russian leaders was not match for a old Georgian army... Even a army founded by the US..
The West, and specially the US was surprised that the Russian Army at all could match and overwhelm the Georgian Army. In most brain, (as my own) we believed that the russian army, navy and aiforce was in so bad an habit, that they could not possible get a army under way. We have all seen the pictures from derelict subs, air force and army and where the russian armed forces have been treated badly for so many year.. And there it looks like the Russian had learned some on the road, and are using maybe many of "our" tactic to attack Georgia.. Who over night have been "the Innocent" gay in the street.. Even that Georgia for may year, in fact since 1990, have been in armed conflict over this two areas. Most because most of the industry, was there... And because the area are important as oil and gas are been transported by the area... But hey, in many western media, specially the american one, it is Russia who are to blame for the war - even that Georgia for more than 17 year have attached civilians in the two areas.. And that it was a bloody civil war in the area between 1990 and 1994 when a sort of peace accord was agreed about...

Mr Putin are maybe not a man who love democracy so great. But he is, as I know it, no dictator.. If he have been that, he would have managed to be "president for life" or managed to build up an "folk cult" aka Stalin or some like that... But he haven't, not been a "president for life" or been a 21 century Josef Stalin... He accepted the time limit, and have public spoked that it is never good to have the presidency for more than 8 year at the time.. He even voluntary to step down as an power broker all toghter, But then he was asked to stay on, as Prime Minister... And he accepted... Mr Putin have been following the rules - as best as you can do it, in a byzantine Russian tradition.. But he have been a man who on both bad and good have changed the russian future also.. Russia are not that weak anymore.. And it is time also for US to accept that the Russian Bear are staring to grow again.. And are a force both to reckon with, but also a force worth work with - if they just want to treat Russia as an decent country... Today USA believe Russia to be a very, very weak country.. Maybe even a country wort "invade to promote democracy"... I fear that many generals in Pentagon, have not learned a lot from what the German Generals in OKW was learning the hard way in the winters of 1941-43.. I for one, would never forget the ghost from Stalingrad and Leningrad... Even that I was living when the War was there.. But the history leasson is good enough for me.

Diclotican

Sorry my bad english, not my native language..

[AZ Criminal JD]

12. Putin did not step down.

He subverted the Russian Constitution by making himself Prime Minister while putting in a puppet as President. He throws people in jail who oppose him -- if they are lucky. Reporters who have written critical articles about his regime have been murdered. I interviewed Anna Politkovskaya for a book I wrote and she was murdered in the lobby of her apartment in Moscow on Putin's birthday -- a present for him from the FSB (the new KGB).

[Diclotican]

14. Bamalib

Bamblib

He steeped down as President in Russia.. Yes he made himself the Prime minister, but to claim that Medejev is an puppet is very wrong.. They just happened to agree of most thing, and therefore mr Putin do have a large bulk of power with the new President.. Medejev is handpicked by Putin, that is something we both agree about. But to claim mr Putin therefore is an Dictator is just dam wrong... Many who have written critical articles about him, or the current regime, have indeed get into more problem than it was worth maybe.. But the russian leadership have never been found of folk writing bad thing about them in power... Ever since the first news paper was written in Russia, in the early 1700s, the russian government have had an "ambivalent" problem with the media.. On the other hand they want most people to read, but on the other hand they do want control.. And I have to say that the old regimes, The Tzar's was no friends of a free press either.. Maybe if the history of Russia had not been what it was in the early 20 century, it maybe be that the government of Russia have had a better way of express their view against the free press than they have today... And silence the opposition, with some high profile murder have been the SOP for many regimes, both friendly to Russia and to US for as long as ve both know...

Yes I know about the murder of madam Politkovskaya and I totally agree, it was horrible what happened. And I can't understand why they have not taking into custody the murderer... Yes it can be the FSB, the old KGB (1 DIRECTORATE BY THE WAY) who killed her.. But it can be many others too.. She was a very brave woman, who was not afraid of telling the truth to everyone.. And it was many criminals who was less happy to discover that she had poked into their territory, and even managed to prove their crime.. At least tell the public who read her what happend..  Both the government, and many other in high places was seeing her as an "liability" who was to be stooped - by any means... Can it be the government who was sending FSB to her place, to kill hear.. Absolutely, can it be former KGB officers, who was on the payroll on a mafia organization, to kill a voice who absolutely was given away more information that they want to give out?...  Can it be some of the "obligate" who was tired of her "poking" into their affair. Specially because she had a good nose for finding out corruption between the money masters, and the government?.. The Russian Government ar pretty corrupt, and everyone who want to do business, have to give kick back on one level, or another... Old russian tradition, who are older than the Soviet Union.. And goes back as long as the Russian History goes I guess...

Yes it can be the FSB and the government who have killed her. But it can also be a hundred other who don't was happy of her work.. Was it bad when she was killed.. Yes.. It was horrible to know that she had been killed.. And it is horrible to know that many other, who was not that famous as she was, are just "disappear" for never to be seen again.. But it is MANY in the russian underground, or in other parts of the russian society who wanted to kill her.. And even if the Modus was very similar to what the FSB are doing.. It can also be old KGB officers who are been used as hit men by many other, who have employed many thousands of ex KGB officers after the Soviet Union fall down... By the way, compared to KGB, the FSB are just a weak link compared.. The old KGB was much more powerfully, had far more "right" over the whole Russian empire, and even the pay was far greater than the current FSB, who have not the same "cloth" as the old KGB.. But the power is growing, but under far strings attach than the old KGB, who was in many way a state in the state.. From every angle..  The current FSB don't even have the control over the presidents special guards anymore.. They are under the control of the Office of the President.. (The old Spetznats)... And it was by the way made like that under Boris Yeltsin in the 1990s.. Long before Mr Putin was his "crown prince".

The current situvation in Russia are far from best. The concept of an independed democratic socity I guess are something that the current goverment - and the goverment of yesterday was finding verry dificult to get into the masses... In the 1990s it was a time of experimenting in Russia. But it was also a time of khaos for the most of russian.. The wealth who was making for the few, was something the large masses in the City's or on the country side never experienced.. And if you drive outside the large Cities you would discover who poor russian still are... And it are still for the most part a large part of the russian, who are never to gain something from the opening of Russia to the west... As someone was telling right before Yelstin was steping down, and Putin was made the President. "If this chaos is democracy, I would not be a part of it":. And this is something that is may russin have experienced.. If Chaos is the winner of Democracy, then Russia in the 1990s should be the most democratic socity in the world.. And for the most part russian, as we all wanted the law to exist for everyone, not just for they who had not the right contact... And had no money to get the right contact... What the most russian wanted, was law and order.. And under mr Putin, and not mr Medejev it sees for the large masses of russians, that they are getting that.. No more dansing on the celling for a President who was drinking to mutch Vodka.. No more embaressing wiew of a President who was totaly out, and drunk as hell on state visit... What the Russian are seeing in Putin and Medejev is two peopole who are on the top of the power pyramide, and who are doing thing better for the masses.. yes mr Putin and Medejev have an Herculean task just to get the Russian State ship around from the chaos they have been in the last decade or so.. But for the russian masses, it looks like they are doing that...

And if the price for law and order is little less press freedom.... Wel many russian think it is worth it. As many american feel it is right to curb freedom of spetch, and that peopole have to accept that aftet 11 sept 2001, the whole concept of a free socity is dead, and that the GOVERMENT should do as they pleace, in order to "protect the american public against evildoers".. And it look dam close that both US and Russia are closing the right to write, and to speak your mind in the future...


Diclotican

Sorry my bad english, not my native language.

[bemildred]

13. Is CNN Getting Kicked Out of Russia?

You probably didn't know that CNN censored Putin for being just too darn sensible. Yep, it's true. About two weeks ago, Putin gave the network an exclusive 30-minute interview. And you know what happened? Nothing. It was never allowed to air. CNN doesn't know it yet, but that decision might have cost them their Russian broadcasting rights.

On August 29, Prime Minister Vladimir Putin met with senior political correspondent Matthew Chance for a CNN exclusive interview. "This was unprecedented access to Russia's powerful prime minister, the former KGB spy now increasingly at odds with Washington," an overly dramatic voice-over introduced the segment as Chance and Putin enjoyed pre-game banter and a walk through the courtyard of Putin's palatial Sochi residence. Once seated, Chance didn't waste any time with his provocative questions:

Matthew Chance: But it's been no secret either that for years you've been urging the West to take more seriously Russia's concerns about international issues. For instance, about NATO's expansion, about deployment of missile defense systems in eastern Europe. Wasn't this conflict a way of demonstrating that in this region, it's Russia that's the power, not NATO and certainly not the United States?

Vladimir Putin: Of course not. What is more, we did not seek such conflicts and do not want them in the future.

That this conflict has taken place -- that it broke out nevertheless -- is only due to the fact that no one had heeded our concerns.

I think both you and your -- our -- viewers today will be interested to learn a little more about the history of relations between the peoples and ethnic groups in this regions of the world. Because people know little or nothing about it.

If you think that this is unimportant, you may cut it from the program. Don't hesitate, I wouldn't mind.

http://www.alternet.org/mediaculture/98501/is_cnn_getting_kicked_out_of_russia/?page=1