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TalkingDog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-16-08 10:00 AM
Original message
What makes people vote Republican?
http://edge.org/3rd_culture/haidt08/haidt08_index.html

"What makes people vote Republican? Why in particular do working class and rural Americans usually vote for pro-business Republicans when their economic interests would seem better served by Democratic policies?"

snip
and here is what we (and Obama) need to be paying attention to(TD)

"....This is the first rule of moral psychology: feelings come first and tilt the mental playing field on which reasons and arguments compete. If people want to reach a conclusion, they can usually find a way to do so. The Democrats have historically failed to grasp this rule, choosing uninspiring and aloof candidates who thought that policy arguments were forms of persuasion."

snip
"...I would say that the second rule of moral psychology is that morality is not just about how we treat each other (as most liberals think); it is also about binding groups together, supporting essential institutions, and living in a sanctified and noble way.

When Republicans say that Democrats "just don't get it," this is the "it" to which they refer. Conservative positions on gays, guns, god, and immigration must be understood as means to achieve one kind of morally ordered society. When Democrats try to explain away these positions using pop psychology they err, they alienate, and they earn the label "elitist." But how can Democrats learn to see—let alone respect—a moral order they regard as narrow-minded, racist, and dumb?"
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Captain Hilts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-16-08 10:04 AM
Response to Original message
1. Not recognizing the obstacles to success in our society. If you are successful, you earned it ...
and deserve it.

If you are poor, your are morally weak and deserve it too.
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TalkingDog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-16-08 10:07 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. Was that in the article? I must've missed that.
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Captain Hilts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-16-08 10:08 AM
Response to Reply #2
3. No, it wasn't, but working with Republicans for 8 years made this difference clear to me.
just trying to keep the discussion going...
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TalkingDog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-16-08 10:58 AM
Response to Reply #3
7. Just pokin' fun....n/t
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Burma Jones Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-16-08 10:16 AM
Response to Original message
4. Yep, Democrats run on ability and fact
The Republicans have successfully separated fact from myth and run on myth. It's like that Christian fish symbol you see occasionally that shows a fish labeled "Truth" swallowing the Darwin Fish, which represents fact. And, when you fail to recognize that "Truth" is perception and "Fact" is objective and that people are a lot more interested in truth than fact, you aren't going to be picked as the National Figurehead/Leader.

When McCain's Campaign Manager says the election will be decided on Personality, not Issues, he's not only right this time, but has it pegged going all the way back to Andrew Jackson......

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hisownpetard Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-16-08 10:16 AM
Response to Original message
5. Tight underwear.
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UK populist Donating Member (147 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-16-08 10:20 AM
Response to Original message
6. I think its different reasons depending on wealth and upbringing
For Poor republicans it can mainly be put down to indoctrination and bigotry.
For the wealthy it can mainly be linked to obscene greed and possibly "elitist attitude of class" upbringing which I think can lead to certain sociopathic tendencies.

I think this because there are very many more people who make it rich who remember their roots and tend to help the less wealthy than you tend to find from silver spoon crowd who generally look down upon normal working and middle class people.
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treestar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-16-08 07:12 PM
Response to Original message
8. Maybe the tactic is to convince them not to rely so much on their
emotions. We seem to be "giving in" to this idea. It will only lead to chaos.

This is what lawyers are told about jurors, too. It's frustrating to think they decide on emotions rather than logic. There's no where you can go with that.

We need to give logic a better rap in this society. So many people preferring emotion and having that validated is leading us to chaos and destruction. Emotions are good things, but we can't let them rule. Logic is a good thing too, and is needed. Electricity and cures for diseases don't come about due to emotional hunches.

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MicaelS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-16-08 08:00 PM
Response to Original message
9. This is a a very good essay by Haidt
And these are the most damning aspects of his essay

In several large internet surveys, my collaborators Jesse Graham, Brian Nosek and I have found that people who call themselves strongly liberal endorse statements related to the harm/care and fairness/reciprocity foundations, and they largely reject statements related to ingroup/loyalty, authority/respect, and purity/sanctity.
The Democrats must find a way to close the sacredness gap that goes beyond occasional and strategic uses of the words "God" and "faith." But if Durkheim is right, then sacredness is really about society and its collective concerns. God is useful but not necessary. The Democrats could close much of the gap if they simply learned to see society not just as a collection of individuals—each with a panoply of rights--but as an entity in itself, an entity that needs some tending and caring. Our national motto is e pluribus unum ("from many, one"). Whenever Democrats support policies that weaken the integrity and identity of the collective (such as multiculturalism, bilingualism, and immigration), they show that they care more about pluribus than unum. They widen the sacredness gap.
The ingroup/loyalty foundation supports virtues of patriotism and self-sacrifice that can lead to dangerous nationalism, but in moderate doses a sense that "we are all one" is a recipe for high social capital and civic well-being. A recent study by Robert Putnam (titled E Pluribus Unum) found that ethnic diversity increases anomie and social isolation by decreasing people's sense of belonging to a shared community. Democrats should think carefully, therefore, about why they celebrate diversity. If the purpose of diversity programs is to fight racism and discrimination (worthy goals based on fairness concerns), then these goals might be better served by encouraging assimilation and a sense of shared identity.
The authority/respect foundation will be the hardest for Democrats to use. But even as liberal bumper stickers urge us to "question authority" and assert that "dissent is patriotic," Democrats can ask what needs this foundation serves, and then look for other ways to meet them. The authority foundation is all about maintaining social order, so any candidate seen to be "soft on crime" has disqualified himself, for many Americans, from being entrusted with the ultimate authority. Democrats would do well to read Durkheim and think about the quasi-religious importance of the criminal justice system. The miracle of turning individuals into groups can only be performed by groups that impose costs on cheaters and slackers. You can do this the authoritarian way (with strict rules and harsh penalties) or you can do it using the fairness/reciprocity foundation by stressing personal responsibility and the beneficence of the nation towards those who "work hard and play by the rules." But if you don't do it at all—if you seem to tolerate or enable cheaters and slackers -- then you are committing a kind of sacrilege.


No sane person wants to be a victim of crime, but with too many policies Democrats appear to be soft on crime by focusing on solely blaming societal issues, while ignoring and even excusing the personal responsibility of the person committing the crime. The elephant in the room no one wants to acknowledge is the legalization of drugs, no one in either party even mentions the issue. We had 13 years of a failed policy with Alcohol Prohibition that simply lead to the creation of a new class of criminal, and 90 years of Drug Prohibition that has created another new class of criminal. If we ever were sensible enough to get that out of the way, and get non-violent drug offenders out of criminal justice system, then we could concentrate on, and deal with the hardcore criminal element. Specifically gangs, rapists and child molesters, that seem to revel in committing violent crimes. And some may not like this, but I do believe a hardcore element of criminals are irredeemable. No amount of rehabilitation is going to cure them. So the only alternative is life imprisonment or execution.
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kimmylavin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-16-08 11:01 PM
Response to Original message
10. Came to this conclusion about my parents...
Whenever I try to discuss politics with them - the state of the world, the economy, the larger issues of poverty, etc, they ask why I can't just focus on all the good things I have in MY life.

They're from the wealthier end of the income spectrum, and I really think its a "Screw you, Jack, I got mine" kinda thing...
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Skittles Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-17-08 12:30 AM
Response to Original message
11. #1 reason - their parents voted repuke
people don't vote Democratic until they start thinking for themselves
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TrogL Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-17-08 01:09 AM
Response to Original message
12. Authoritarians need a morally ordered society
otherwise they cannot control themselves.
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