Are tech firms faking job ads to avoid hiring U.S. workers?

[OhioChick]

September 24, 2008

Companies like Hewlett Packard, Cisco, and others are being accused of skirting federal laws to hire foreign workers while laying off American geeks. Cringely labors to uncover the truth.

TAGS: Come Hell or HP


Ask the Programmers Guild that question, and their answer would be an emphatic "yes!" The New Jersey-based organization has accused Hewlett Packard of advertising for jobs it has no intention of filling -- at least with US citizens -- on the Idaho Department of Labor Web site.

Federal regulations require U.S. corporations that wish to request a green card for a foreign worker to demonstrate that no qualified U.S. workers are available to fill the job. So, the argument goes, HP is allegedly posting fake jobs online and in newspapers to fulfill the requirements of Uncle Sam's Program Electronic Review Management process. Resumes come in, Americans get winnowed out, and the PERM job goes to Enrique or Sanjay or Vladimir.

The key bit of evidence: Job applications are directed not to HP's normal human resources department but to one of its immigration specialists.

A Hewlett Packard spokesperson responded thusly:

The programmer's guild website and press release on HP is inaccurate and misleading. The job notices that were on the Idaho state job bank last week appeared in error. We are working with the Idaho Department of Labor to assure such errors do not occur in the future. HP has no plans to substitute American workers with foreign nationals for these roles.
HP is an equal opportunity employer and does not discriminate against any workers, but always seeks to hire the best and the brightest and that includes a small percentage (2-3%) of foreign nationals.


Blogger (and recently downsized HP engineer) Clayton Cramer notes that HP said those Idaho job postings were a mistake and would be taken down. Curiously, he adds, very similar ads for job at HP appeared on the site a few days later.

Programmers Guild president Kim Berry says companies prefer H-1B workers because foreign workers' options are limited: They aren't allowed to change jobs for several years, they may be forced to work overtime without pay, and they're less likely to question management decisions. "It's a form of indentured servitude," he says.

The Guild isn't the only group squawking about this. Blogger James Fulford has accused HP of laying off older Americans and then posting ads for jobs that are pretty much identical to the ones they just "eliminated." The motive: to replace older, better paid employees with younger, cheaper PERM employees.

Meanwhile, HP recently announced it's slashing 24,600 employees as a result of its merger with EDS, half of them employed in the States. According to SiliconValley.com, "HP said it plans to replace about half those jobs with new positions performing other functions."

It will be interesting to see how they define "other functions."

Of course, HP is hardly the only company suspected of doing this. Cisco has been accused of running similarly bogus ads. Last year, the Guild posted a YouTube video showing Pittsburgh law firm Cohen & Grisgsby giving a tutorial on how to skirt the legal requirements to hire H-1B workers that created a small firestorm on the Net and even woke up two members of Congress. (They resumed their nap shortly thereafter.)

Is this illegal? Technically not, says Berry. "But the companies are supposed to make a good faith effort to hire Americans. It's not good faith if they're getting resumes from highly qualified candidates and looking for reasons not to hire them."

Finally, frequent Cringe contributor J. H. shares this viral video, titled "Developers Are in Pain." It doesn't have anything to do with immigration or H-1B visas, but it's pretty damned funny -- and very true.

Have you been PERMed out of a job? Post your tale or woe (or resume) below or email it to at cringe (at) infoworld (dot) com. We'll get back to you...after we've interviewed Enrique, Sanjay, and Vlad.

http://weblog.infoworld.com/robertxcringely/archives/2008/09/are_tech_firms.html

HP: "The job notices that were on the Idaho state job bank last week appeared in error."

Yeah, right.....in error, my ass.

[The Traveler]

1. This has been going on for years

all over the industry. It's a scam.

[Demeter]

7. Decades

[Dont_Bogart_the_Pretzel]

2. Why do they hate America?

[sui generis]

3. thank the job boards for that

They want to seem like they have lots and lots of hits so they automatically "repost" old positions to seem like they have activity.

Boards like Monster and Ladders profit by pop-in advertising, and many boards are "resume" shops - their primary income after membership is resume crafting.

If there are no new jobs, people won't renew their memberships at pay-sites or will use jobs that appear to have more jobs available, whether they are or not.

Finally - when you use online applications such as Taleo or Kenexa, you are agreeing to allow those companies to sell your marketing information to ANYONE they choose, including your phone numbers, home address, etc.

The recruiting industry needs to be regulated by the department of labor.

[eggplant]

4. This isn't news.

I've seen this personally in the industry for at least the last twenty years. The company finds a non-citizen they want to hire, then crafts a job definition that only that person can fit, then advertises the job for whatever they are minimally required to do, then they hire the person they wanted.

H1Bs really are indentured, and as such, they are much more pliable to management. However, while this practice violates the sprit (in not the letter) of the law, it does not mean that the hirees are unqualified, so be careful disparaging the foreign workers here. It isn't their fault -- they are just trying to live the American dream like the rest of us.

The blame falls squarely on management, who wants to hire complacent workers for less money, and be able to essentially threaten them with deportation to keep them in line.

[antigop]

5. We can bail Wall Street out, but we won't even protect jobs for U.S. Workers

Honestly, I'm ready to move to another country...at least I wouldn't have to worry about health insurance.

[ChromeFoundry]

13. I hear ya...

it's a national crisis when the banks can't make sound business decisions and fall into bankruptcy. But when it comes to you and I missing one house payment, they show no sympathy. The financial sector is the largest offshore outsourcer of IT jobs. And they expect us, the ones they have turned their backs to, to bail them out? Let the oil companies, pharmaceuticals and Bill (we have no talent here in the US) Gates and their windfall profits bail them out.

[OhioChick]

14. I agree 100%! n/t

[blue97keet]

6. DOL's description of how their own scam works.

I posted this earlier but am re-posting it.


Below is a portion of a Department of Labor "memo" . The official title of memo is as below and can be found in pdf format on DOL website. Please note that there is a "certification-related recruitment" process that differs from normal recruitment process. What this means folks is that if your resume goes through a "certification-related " process you are likely to be scrutinized by immigration lawyers since and I quote from the memo "the permanent labor certification program imposes recruitment standards on the employer that may deviate from the employer?s normal standards of evaluation". In other words the job requirments have some deviant dependency on the foreign labor certification program! This is our crazy government at work!

title:
Restatement of PERM Program Guidance Bulletin on the Clarification of Scope of Consideration Rule in 20 CFR ? 656.10(b)(2).

excerpt:
The Department of Labor has a statutory responsibility to ensure that no foreign worker (or ?alien?) is admitted for permanent residence based upon an offer of employment absent a finding that there are not sufficient U.S. workers who are able, willing, qualified and available for the work to be undertaken and that the admission of such worker will not adversely affect the wages and working conditions of U.S. workers similarly employed. 8 U.S.C. ? 1182(a)(5)(A)(i). The Department fulfills this responsibility by determining the availability of qualified U.S. workers before approving a permanent labor certification application and by ensuring that U.S. workers are fairly considered for all job opportunities that are the subject of a permanent labor certification application. Accordingly, the Department relies on employers who file labor certification applications to recruit and consider U.S. workers in good faith, even where the employer already has a temporarily-admitted foreign national working for the employer.
The Department has long held the view that good faith recruitment requires that an employer?s process for considering U.S. workers who respond to certification-related recruitment closely resemble the employer?s normal consideration process. In most
2

situations, that normal hiring process does not involve a role for an attorney or agent (as defined in 20 C.F.R. ? 656.3) in assessing the qualifications of applicants to fill the employer's position. It also does not involve any role for the foreign worker or foreign national in any aspect of the consideration process. However, given that the permanent labor certification program imposes recruitment standards on the employer that may deviate from the employer?s normal standards of evaluation, the Department understands and appreciates the legitimate role attorneys and agents play in the permanent labor certification process. Additionally, the Department respects the right of employers to consult with their attorney(s) or agent(s) during that process to ensure that they are complying with all applicable legal requirements.

[ihavenobias]

8. That's terrible n/t

[babylonsister]

9. MUST READ! nt

[ChromeFoundry]

10. good post..

too bad it only has 6 votes, it'll never see the light of day. The 5 votes for the greatest needs to be brought back. You're right, too many good articles in this forum that can't make the 10 vote minimum any longer.

[raccoon]

11. Undoubtedly. nt

[babylonsister]

12. Kick! nt

[cascadiance]

15. Times have sure changed from the tech boom era in the 80's...

When HP and its employees used to brag about never having any layoffs then. For a while when I worked at Sun it was similar there and other tech companies. Then they discovered the ways of "cutting costs" with these body shops, etc. H1-B only body shops ("consulting" agencies that ONLY hired H-1B visa workers to skirt the laws requiring equivalent salaries of domestic workers working the same positions). Instead of offering "contracTORS" to hire to places like Sun or HP, they would offer "contracting services" to these companies that would make sure these comparisons wouldn't be made so they could pay these folks a LOT less than what the H-1B visa laws required.

The H-1B and H-2B programs are such a smoke screen for the scams that are in place to get rid of the American worker. What they are purported to be used for and what they are actually used for is so different.

I sense a lot of layoffs in the tech sector will be part 2 of this banking meltdown... Just wait.

[OhioChick]

16. You're right regarding a lot of layoffs in the tech sector in the future....

However, keep in mind that most financial institutions outsource their work to India.

Indian Outsourcers Will Be Hit by US Financial Crisis

http://www.pcworld.com/businesscenter/article/151517/indian_outsourcers_will_be_hit_by_us_financial_crisis.html

[OakCliffDem]

17. Fake advertisements for jobs are not new

Nor are conducting job interviews just to see 'what the job market is like' without intending on hiring anyone.

I know, I have had tens of interviews with defense contractors around Dallas and Ft Worth who did not hire a soul afterwords.