I just want to point out one thing about the so-called "taxpayer" bailout...

[Fearless]

This money is not going to come from US taxpayers. It's coming from foreign banking conglomerates and investors who are going to give us that money and tack its price onto the national debt. This isn't about Mr. Joe Sixpack bailing out Wall St. None of our money is being used here. In case we haven't noticed, we burnt through our money pretty damn early in this fiscal year. I'm not talking about being for or against the bailout (here and now). I'm just saying that we and the media should be honest about what is really going on.

The gov't bails out corporations with money that was given to the US gov't by foreign players to bail out the US economy. That's all. Why hasn't even one of the talking heads mentioned this yet?

Cheers,
NTF

[Jackpine Radical]

1. So, who owes that national debt? The Martians?

[Fearless]

2. Do you actually think that we're ever going to pay that off?

Good luck.

[Jackpine Radical]

6. I think the interest on it will cripple us for generations.

It will be that much harder to make the changes we need: health care, education, environment, energy R&D, transportation, general infrastructure, etc.

[Fearless]

12. There's a certain irony...

If the US does well economically and the dollar climbs again, then the investors win and the US loses as it won't be able to pay off the debt. They have a vested interest in seeing the US succeed. Otherwise they may just hold an order for a shitload of worthless paper.

[Jackpine Radical]

17. Yes, we can always inflate our way out of debt.

If toilet paper hits $1000 a roll, the foreigners will prefer to collect their debt in toilet paper rather than dollars.

[stillcool]

3. What about the IMF?

are we going to be one of those countries that is under their thumb?

[Jackpine Radical]

7. This is their big chance.

They owe us no loyalty, our collective neck is next on the block.

[cornermouse]

4. Golly gee.

I wonder who's going to pay at least the interest on the national debt? Oh yeah. Us. John and Jane Q Public. And since, thanks to Congress, the "beneficiaries" of all this largess have lots of tactics their CPA's can use to avoid paying their fair share of taxes everything should be peachy keen, right?

[Fearless]

14. How? Where is this money coming from?

We can't even balance a budget. There is no money.

[texastoast]

5. Please clarify and cite your foundation for this statement, please

"The government bails out corporations with money that was GIVEN (emphasis added) to the US gov't by foreign players (who are these people/entities) to bail out the US economy."

Please explain that to me. Who GIVES money to the U.S.? Foreign players in what?

[Jackpine Radical]

8. Mighty damn generous of them, dontcha think?

I just wish I had an uncle like that somewhere.

[Fearless]

11. The money was given... as in the opposite of received...

I meant nothing by it. Just a choice of words.

Likely those lending the money are increasingly stupid. There is no chance that the US will pay off this debt barring massive inflation and even then the dollar would be worthless. So the only thing we have to worry about is having one of these lenders (or a bunch of them) desire to see us go belly up, then we're fucked.

[Jackpine Radical]

18. WE are the equity securing the notes.

Think about it.

[Union Thug]

9. I'm not sure I'm following you...

Who is going to pay off the national debt in this case (and the compounding interest on that debt)? Doesn't that track straight back to the US tax payer? I'm not being deliberately contentious; I simply don't understand your assessment.

[Fearless]

10. Who's going to pay the national debt?

You assume that anyone is going to pay it. Barring a massive hike in inflation (which we should be very wary of) we cannot possibly pay that off. 11.4 Trillion. It's impossible from purely a fiscal standpoint. And, no one can call us on that debt either. If they do, the dollar goes belly up and they get nothing anyways. It's a Catch 22. All we have to do is be careful that we don't piss off one of the major debt holders who might not mind losing the money in exchange for killing off the US.

[texastoast]

13. So the bailout is nothing but smoke and mirrors?

That's my take on it.

There is no "bailout"--it's only the postponement of the inevitable crash. And China wins all the marbles. Meanwhile, THESE guys are off on an island at taxpayer expense while Four Legs Good and Two Legs Bad come to trough in the U.S.

Source: Business Week

Washington Mutual Inc.'s new CEO, Alan Fishman, will be eligible for at least $12.65 million or more in salary and bonuses next year, the company said Thursday in a securities filing.

Fishman, who replaced Kerry Killinger as CEO on Monday, also received a $7.5 million signing bonus for joining the company, according to a regulatory filing made with the Securities and Exchange Commission.

Read more: http://www.businessweek.com/ap/financialnews/D934QLJO0.htm

[Union Thug]

15. All great points. Who is the economist who is on Hartmann from time to time?

He essentially warned of the same thing - a smoke and mirrors trick that will come back to explode in our faces in the not too distant future.

[Union Thug]

16. "All we have to do..."

It's great when we, as a nation, have essentially made ourselves an easy target extortion. Thanks for clarifying your position.