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The GM genocide: Thousands of Indian farmers are committing suicide after using GM crops

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Billy Burnett Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-16-08 01:32 AM
Original message
The GM genocide: Thousands of Indian farmers are committing suicide after using GM crops
The GM genocide: Thousands of Indian farmers are committing suicide after using genetically modified crops
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1082559/The-GM-genocide-Thousands-Indian-farmers-committing-suicide-using-genetically-modified-crops.html

When Prince Charles claimed thousands of Indian
farmers were killing themselves after using GM crops,
he was branded a scaremonger. In fact, as this chilling
dispatch reveals, it's even WORSE than he feared.

The children were inconsolable. Mute with shock and fighting back tears, they huddled beside their mother as friends and neighbours prepared their father's body for cremation on a blazing bonfire built on the cracked, barren fields near their home.

As flames consumed the corpse, Ganjanan, 12, and Kalpana, 14, faced a grim future. While Shankara Mandaukar had hoped his son and daughter would have a better life under India's economic boom, they now face working as slave labour for a few pence a day. Landless and homeless, they will be the lowest of the low.

Shankara, respected farmer, loving husband and father, had taken his own life. Less than 24 hours earlier, facing the loss of his land due to debt, he drank a cupful of chemical insecticide.

Unable to pay back the equivalent of two years' earnings, he was in despair. He could see no way out.

There were still marks in the dust where he had writhed in agony. Other villagers looked on - they knew from experience that any intervention was pointless - as he lay doubled up on the ground, crying out in pain and vomiting.

Moaning, he crawled on to a bench outside his simple home 100 miles from Nagpur in central India. An hour later, he stopped making any noise. Then he stopped breathing. At 5pm on Sunday, the life of Shankara Mandaukar came to an end.

As neighbours gathered to pray outside the family home, Nirmala Mandaukar, 50, told how she rushed back from the fields to find her husband dead. 'He was a loving and caring man,' she said, weeping quietly.

'But he couldn't take any more. The mental anguish was too much. We have lost everything.'

Shankara's crop had failed - twice. Of course, famine and pestilence are part of India's ancient story.

But the death of this respected farmer has been blamed on something far more modern and sinister: genetically modified crops.

Shankara, like millions of other Indian farmers, had been promised previously unheard of harvests and income if he switched from farming with traditional seeds to planting GM seeds instead.

Beguiled by the promise of future riches, he borrowed money in order to buy the GM seeds. But when the harvests failed, he was left with spiralling debts - and no income.

So Shankara became one of an estimated 125,000 farmers to take their own life as a result of the ruthless drive to use India as a testing ground for genetically modified crops.

The crisis, branded the 'GM Genocide' by campaigners, was highlighted recently when Prince Charles claimed that the issue of GM had become a 'global moral question' - and the time had come to end its unstoppable march.

Speaking by video link to a conference in the Indian capital, Delhi, he infuriated bio-tech leaders and some politicians by condemning 'the truly appalling and tragic rate of small farmer suicides in India, stemming... from the failure of many GM crop varieties'.

Ranged against the Prince are powerful GM lobbyists and prominent politicians, who claim that genetically modified crops have transformed Indian agriculture, providing greater yields than ever before.

The rest of the world, they insist, should embrace 'the future' and follow suit.

So who is telling the truth? To find out, I travelled to the 'suicide belt' in Maharashtra state.

What I found was deeply disturbing - and has profound implications for countries, including Britain, debating whether to allow the planting of seeds manipulated by scientists to circumvent the laws of nature.

For official figures from the Indian Ministry of Agriculture do indeed confirm that in a huge humanitarian crisis, more than 1,000 farmers kill themselves here each month.

Simple, rural people, they are dying slow, agonising deaths. Most swallow insecticide - a pricey substance they were promised they would not need when they were coerced into growing expensive GM crops.

It seems that many are massively in debt to local money-lenders, having over-borrowed to purchase GM seed.

Pro-GM experts claim that it is rural poverty, alcoholism, drought and 'agrarian distress' that is the real reason for the horrific toll.

But, as I discovered during a four-day journey through the epicentre of the disaster, that is not the full story.

More...



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greyl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-16-08 01:46 AM
Response to Original message
1. "are massively in debt to local money-lenders, having over-borrowed to purchase GM seed"
(Tin-foil preventative measure.)
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Liberal Elitist Donating Member (40 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-17-08 05:38 AM
Response to Reply #1
54. DON'T BELEIVE ANYTHING IN THE UK DAILY MAIL
It's renowned in the UK as a right-wing propaganda sheet with notoriously low standards of journalism, particularly in relation to science and politics. Obviously big pharma need watching closely and get up to all sorts of nasty stuff but this story is way off the mark (If this story was from New Scientist or the Guardian, especially Ben Goldacre's Bad Science column it would be believable)

Rebuttals from New Scientist:

"More than 100,000 people kill themselves each year in India. Many of these deaths are of men who fall into debt, and one-fifth of all the suicides are farmers. The farmers' plight has become a lightning rod for critics of genetically modified crops, including Prince Charles, heir to the British throne. Anti-GM groups have long argued that expensive cotton seeds engineered to contain the gene for the pesticidal Bt toxin were irresponsibly promoted in 2002, when the Indian government gave the go-ahead for their use. The prince highlighted the issue last month in a public lecture.

GM varieties failed miserably at first, partly because of drought, and some destitute farmers were driven to suicide. Now an independent analysis has concluded that it's unfair to blame the Bt cotton (see "GM cotton absolved of farmer suicides"). It turns out that the suicide rate has remained static, even though a multitude of new varieties of Bt cotton have made the altered crop more popular than ever.

The analysis acknowledges that the early failures may have been a contributory factor in the farmers' suicides, but the reliance by farmers on illegal moneylenders played a bigger role. Focusing on GM may even have cost lives by distracting attention from other potential causes."

http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg20026814.600-gm-cotton-in-the-clear-over-farmer-suicides.html
http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg20026812.900-editorial-finding-the-facts-about-genetic-modification.html
http://counterknowledge.com/?m=20081110



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Joe Chi Minh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-18-08 02:34 PM
Response to Reply #54
79. That is one of the most half-witted troll posts I've come across, but it's
Edited on Tue Nov-18-08 02:35 PM by KCabotDullesMarxIII
still a favourite with trolls.

I don't think it's even an exaggeration to say its senior management is crypto-Nazi (seven of their directors dressed up as Nazis at a Daily Mail party in 1992), but even the most right-wing in the UK papers have to "run with the hare and hunt with the hounds", to keep up their circulation.

The Daily Mail was on Monsanto's wheel long, long ago, and may have played a part in the discrediting of Monsanto's introduction of the hormone BST into cattle, and thereby milk. It has also tried to keep on top of the EEC and our govt's determination to keep testing GM crops, even though frankenfoods are banned from the supermarkets and shops now. They are, of course, arch-corporatists, but not in relation to GM crops and frankenfoods.
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leftstreet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-16-08 01:57 AM
Response to Original message
2. K&R
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progdonkey Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-16-08 02:03 AM
Response to Original message
3. yeah, that headline practically screams "tin foil!!!"
while the article makes much more sense. (I know it's not your title, so I'm not criticizing you. ;-))

I was thinking I was going to be reading an article about GM crops causing a suicidal dementia, or something.

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Mr_Jefferson_24 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-16-08 02:05 AM
Response to Original message
4. Terribly sad.
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bertman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-16-08 02:07 AM
Response to Original message
5. Seeds designed to circumvent the laws of nature. That about sums it up. How about this law
of nature: human greed and stupidity trump all.


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orleans Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-16-08 11:05 PM
Response to Reply #5
41. how about this law of nature: monsanto sucks! n/t
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AlbertCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-17-08 12:22 PM
Response to Reply #5
62. Seeds designed to circumvent the laws of nature.
Uh...the laws of "nature"...physics... cannot be circumvented.

The "laws of nature" are what enable scientists to genetically modify crops. It's not magic, y'know. And Mankind has been practicing it in some form or other since pre-history.
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teknomanzer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-17-08 03:36 PM
Response to Reply #62
68. So you want to get into semantics here...
Fine terminator seeds don't violate the laws of physics or "nature" but it does undermine the process of life. Seeds are supposed to reproduce. Per the laws of physics any living thing that cannot reproduce is destined for the trash heap of evolution. Terminator seeds are fucking dangerous. As it stands only a small percentage of plant life is edible of that small percentage an even smaller percentage is suitable for mass agriculture. If the world's farmers were to abandon reproducing seed in favor of GM terminator seed such that reproducing seed would not be as readily available then all it would take is one catastrophic failure of this GM seed to send us into global famine. And while that may sound tin foil hat and far fetched to you it is possible. We should not be fucking with the food supply just so a few assholes can make more money.
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ksimons Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-16-08 02:08 AM
Response to Original message
6. very sad - horrible way *and reason* to end it

distressing
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undergroundpanther Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-16-08 02:11 AM
Response to Original message
7. I hate profit mongers.
Greedy asshole rich PIGS and their CORPORATIONS Like Montsano,they THINK NOTHING of the consequences of their fucking greed.I HATE capitalism and it's exploitation, it's a pyramid scam, and debt slavery.Yes I do hate rich,people. I hate the callous greedy bully people who hide behind corporate entities ,corrupt politicians,and I hate corrupted politicians too..I Hate them all.
I await the happy day the pigs for profit LOSE IT ALL.I want richie rich top five percent of the parasite rich to jump from windows and blow their greedy little brains out. I want them to suffer for once the SHIT they put poor people through,and the havoc they cause for their goddamn profits. FUCK the MARKET!!After all profit is money for NOTHING. Capitalism and social hierarchy is a gigantic scam that is killing humanity..I hate it.

I feel so bad for the farmers relatives and friends.I am sad for the farmers who bought into the big lie that every rich parasite pig peddles to desperate people..( you can better your life financially if you do__ which a rich pig offers to you to do)(in this case it was buy GM seeds.Never trust the rich.They'll fuck your life over for a dime.
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Raksha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-16-08 10:13 PM
Response to Reply #7
39. What makes me sick is the way they peddle their crap
in third-world countries, to subsistance farmers in India who literally can't afford to fail. If they HAVE to sell GM seeds to anyone (although the Goddess only knows WHY), it should be to large-scale farmers who can plant a couple of acres as an experiment, and then if it fails the farmers haven't lost everything.

Like everyone else on DU I'm against GM seeds on general principles. I've been collecting and saving seeds for about eight years now, and the whole idea makes me sick. For one thing, the pollen CAN'T be confined and will contaminate traditional crops. It violates the laws of nature on so many levels I don't even want to get started. And it violates the essence of human self-sufficiency--i.e. being able to grow your own food from seed you saved yourself. I have personally done this so I have some first-hand experience with it.

WHY didn't Monsanto et al. stop the GM seed program in India after the very first suicide? How many years has this been going on, and why is it STILL going on? Dumb question...because they're fucking evil, that's why.
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AlbertCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-17-08 12:35 PM
Response to Reply #39
63. Like everyone else on DU I'm against GM seeds on general principles.
I'm not against them.

Speak for yourself.

Nothing "violates" the laws of nature. That is impossible. No wonder you can't get started into the "so many levels"....because there aren't any. And I don't see how GM seeds prevent humans from saving seeds and being self sufficient.

GM seeds did not "cause" these suicides. (Maybe that's why Monsanto didn't stop.)

This is just stupid. It would be much more helpful to go after the real causes of suicides.....like poverty and ignorance.

This is just "be scared of science!" BS.
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Greyhound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-17-08 02:55 PM
Response to Reply #63
67. It is far more than that, it is a strategy calculated to draw farmers into total subservience
to corporate overlords. The consistent thread throughout GMO technology is the "terminator technology" (the irony of the term seems lost on them) which blocks the organisms ability to reproduce and that is the key.

No longer are farmers to be allowed to become, in any way, self sufficient. Many districts and whole countries have, at the demand of usually the IMF, outlawed planting natural native crops to force the farmers to indenture themselves to the supplier, forever. If a farmer can hold back some of his seed each year to plant the next season's crops, they don't make any money and lose control of "their market", thus it must not be allowed.

This reason alone is sufficient to ban their use.


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comrade snarky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-17-08 03:41 PM
Response to Reply #63
69. You are far from alone
As i read this article the issue is the rapacious business practices of Monsanto and other corporations driving farmers to suicide in the face of economic failure not GM foods causing people to kill themselves.

It's quite deceptively titled in order to create sensation and fear. That throws everything else in it into question.

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Raksha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-17-08 04:28 PM
Response to Reply #63
72. Nope, it isn't "be scared of science!" BS.
Edited on Mon Nov-17-08 04:30 PM by Raksha
Re GM seeds did not "cause" these suicides. (Maybe that's why Monsanto didn't stop.)

This is just stupid. It would be much more helpful to go after the real causes of suicides.....like poverty and ignorance.

This is just "be scared of science!" BS.


Nor is the root cause poverty and ignorance per se. As Greyhound1966 points out in post #67, the real problem is the use of "terminator seeds" (meaning they don't produce viable seed of their own) to induce widespread debt slavery, because the farmer is forced to return to Montsanto or other corporate psychopath for another year's supply of overpriced seeds, taking on still more debt burden until he eventually loses his land, and very often his life in the process.

Vandana Shiva can hardly be called "anti-science," considering that she has a Ph.D. in quantum physics and her first professional job was at a nuclear reactor. Her sister convinced her to devote her energies to sustainable agriculture, which she has been involved with for 20 years now.

You might want to read this article:
http://siu.no/magazine/layout/set/print/content/view/full/11360

It's called "The Monoculture of the Mind" and it explodes a lot of the corporate PR myths about the so-called "Green Revolution," especially with regard to India.
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southerncrone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-16-08 02:14 AM
Response to Original message
8. This has been a crisis there for an number of years now. It all goes back to GM seeds.
Monsanto & Cargill are the culprits.

http://www.countercurrents.org/glo-shiva050404.htm

http://www.hinduonnet.com/2008/01/31/stories/2008013160930100.htm

In Canada the use of these seeds is quite prolific. They've drunk the Monsanto Kool-aid about improved production & better pest control. These seeds are engineered to suicide themselves somehow, making it necessary to buy new seeds from Monsanto every year.

I suspect a large portion of the canned vegetables we buy here in the US are from GM seeds.

Grow your own from heirloom seeds!



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BB1 Donating Member (671 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-16-08 09:24 AM
Response to Reply #8
21. Brawndo. It's what plants crave.
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jpertello Donating Member (584 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-17-08 03:09 AM
Response to Reply #21
47. It's also got electrolytes.
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awoke_in_2003 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-16-08 02:12 PM
Response to Reply #8
28. "Grow your own from heirloom seeds!"
People better start saving their seeds produced by heirloom crops, because one day you won't be able to buy them.
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-16-08 02:23 AM
Response to Original message
9. As capitalism spreads, so does suicide
it seems. Tragic that people lose what they perceive to be their honor through no fault of their own.
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populistdriven Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-16-08 07:54 AM
Response to Reply #9
17. It is the natural selection of the open market, these farmers failed at their job: making profit
Edited on Sun Nov-16-08 07:54 AM by bushmeat











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teknomanzer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-16-08 02:40 AM
Response to Original message
10. These terminator seeds are an abomination.
The invention of such a thing angers me so much. Greed, the desire to make a profit at any turn, has lead to a creation that pisses on the very laws of nature and mocks the process of life itself.
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mcg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-16-08 12:22 PM
Response to Reply #10
22. Hooked on terminator seeds, similar to being hooked on a high that ends,
the drug addict becomes enslaved to the pushers, the farmers become enslaved to Monsanto.
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barbtries Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-16-08 04:08 AM
Response to Original message
11. is GM monsanto or vice versa?
trying to connect the dots. i've read about the evils of monsanto and wonder if one bought up the other.

greed will ruin the human race if it cannot be overcome.
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MN Farmer Donating Member (22 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-16-08 05:50 AM
Response to Reply #11
13. GM and Monsanto....
You're thinking General Motors, but in this discussion GM refers to Genetically Modified.
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Tansy_Gold Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-16-08 07:46 AM
Response to Reply #13
16. GM (either one!) & Monsanto => Oryx & Crake
While I consider Atwood's "Handmaid's Tale" to be a more coherent read, "Oryx and Crake" may prove to be even more prophetic.



Tansy Gold
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barbtries Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-16-08 08:04 AM
Response to Reply #13
18. okay, okay, yeah
lol - it was kinda late at the time. vanity fair, i believe it was, has an article about monsanto from sometime within the past year or so. they are evil, a word i don't use unless nothing else fits. thanks for setting me straight.
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DeeDeeNY Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-17-08 11:57 AM
Response to Reply #18
61. Take a look at this website
http://www.centerforfoodsafety.org/geneticall7.cfm

"A number of studies over the past decade have revealed that genetically engineered foods can pose serious risks to humans, domesticated animals, wildlife and the environment. Human health effects can include higher risks of toxicity, allergenicity, antibiotic resistance, immune-suppression and cancer. As for environmental impacts, the use of genetic engineering in agriculture could lead to uncontrolled biological pollution, threatening numerous microbial, plant and animal species with extinction, and the potential contamination of non-genetically engineered life forms with novel and possibly hazardous genetic material."
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Random_Australian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-17-08 03:21 AM
Response to Reply #11
50. GM = genetically modified, which is a technique that can be used to change plants and such.
Monsanto is a corporation, and not nice people at all.

Unless I misread your post :shrug:
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Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-16-08 05:47 AM
Response to Original message
12. Maybe Prince Charles can accomplish an enduring legacy if he can make a substantial change
in the success of these filthy parasites, living off the suffering of desperate, poor people.

This is the time this British man can make a real contribution to the entire world, far, far better than sending more troops to Iraq to slaughter more innocents.
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MNBrewer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-16-08 09:39 PM
Response to Reply #12
37. these filthy parasites, living off the suffering of desperate, poor people.
are you referring to the royal family?
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thunder rising Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-16-08 06:26 AM
Response to Original message
14. This story is a retread. It's run every so often. Why is the Indian Gov not educating thier folks?
India is going to have to take care of itself, cause right now we have to take care of us. (They already have all the IT jobs)
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Peace Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-16-08 08:55 AM
Response to Reply #14
20. Don't dis this poor farmer's and other deaths by calling the story a "retread."
The story is that these tragic suicides HAVE NOT STOPPED. And we know darn well that poor people, ordinary people, working class people, small business people, small farmers, have no voice in government, here or there. India's democracy is just as corrupt as this one is, and for the same reason: The global corporate predators own the government, here and there, and are screwing ALL OF US. We cannot draw ourselves into a shell of self-protection. There is NO protection. Monsanto is destroying farmers HERE and there. It is a problem we have IN COMMON with the poor farmers of India.

Yes, I can understand your wanting to say, "It's not my problem." We have plenty to worry about and deal with, for sure. But we need to start understanding how transnational corporations--often U.S.-based--operate, to screw us and to screw everybody else. The IT transnationals that outsource our jobs are the responsible parties, the ones to blame, the ones to punish--not the workers who get the jobs in India. They will suffer, too, having been lured into a more prosperous, more consumerist lifestyle, as the Bushwhacks' Financial 9/11 starts to hit. They may end up in worse shape than the poor farmers. We need--we desperately need--to start thinking BIG, and organizing BIG--transnational labor unions, transnational farmers unions, transnational democracy movements (real democracy, not the fake, corpo-fascist kind)--pressure groups of the majority hitting these transnationals from both sides of the great waters, to curtail their power and enhance the power of the people, here and there.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-16-08 07:50 PM
Response to Reply #20
32. Like our own government and agencies, pay-offs keep the dogs from barking ---
STOLEN elections put GOP in office --
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OwnedByFerrets Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-16-08 08:55 PM
Response to Reply #20
36. Thank you.
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bettyellen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-16-08 12:51 PM
Response to Reply #14
23. the USA is forcing this "technolgy" on other countries - so no, they won't educate their own
we bribe them not to.
wake the fuck up.
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awoke_in_2003 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-16-08 02:18 PM
Response to Reply #14
29. Because the Indian government
is as corrupt as ours. So some people die, they don't care. "India is going to have to take care of itself"- an American based company is causing this, and they are going to eventually do the same thing to our farmers. India is just a dress rehearsal.
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La Lioness Priyanka Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-17-08 08:22 AM
Response to Reply #14
55. your ignorance is nauseating. nt
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Seldona Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-16-08 07:43 AM
Response to Original message
15. In Iraq we essentially made self-terminating seeds the law.
New Iraq Patent Law Will Make Traditional Farmers Seed Saving Illegal

-snip-

This new law means that Iraqi farmers can neither freely legally plant nor
save for re-planting seeds of any plant variety registered under the plant
variety provisions of the new patent law. This deprives farmers what they
and many others worldwide claim as their inherent right to save and replant seeds.

The new law is presented as being necessary to ensure the supply of good
quality seeds in Iraq and to facilitate Iraq's accession to the WTO. What it
will actually do is facilitate the penetration of Iraqi agriculture by the
likes of Monsanto, Syngenta, Bayer and Dow Chemical --- the corporate giants
that control seed trade across the globe.

Eliminating competition from farmers is a prerequisite for these companies
to open up operations in Iraq, which the new law has achieved. Taking over
the first step in the food chain is their next move.

The new patent law also explicitly promotes the commercialization of
genetically modified (GM) seeds in Iraq. Despite serious resistance from
farmers and consumers around the world, these same companies are pushing GM
crops on farmers around the world for their own profit. Contrary to what the
industry is asserting, GM seeds do not reduce the use of pesticides, but
they pose a threat to the environment and to people's health while they
increase farmers dependency on agribusiness

-snip

http://www.organicconsumers.org/patent/iraq111704.cfm

India better wise up. There is also international case law where companies have successfully sued farmers that had their crops contaminated though no fault of their own through pollination. So these farmers are putting their neighbors in financial risk as well.


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otherlander Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-17-08 12:36 AM
Response to Reply #15
43. If I depended on succesfully farming crops to sustain myself
and the bastards tried to pull this shit on me, I'd sooner take up arms against them than starve to death. And in case anyone thinks that the point of this post is to show some kind of bravado, that's really not the point. Even if I didn't have the courage to face someone down with a gun, I would certainly be willing to financially support, feed, shelter, and keep secrets for people who promised they would fight the occupying forces- ANY people who made that promise. Even if I was a democratic socialist (which is kinda close to what I actually am), and the people fighting the occupation were misogynistic anti-democratic religiously-fanatical assholes, I would support them simply because it was a matter of survival. And that's the point: It should come as no surprise to us that "they" want to kill us. "They" are us, minus a few meals and sanitary water sources. And what's really criminal is that the media ENCOURAGES the Iraqi people to kill our soldiers. They don't say it in so many words, but they report on violent insurgents blowing shit up, and dedicate absolutley ZERO headlines to nonviolent resistance, union organizers, women's rights groups, and other groups of Iraqi people who oppose imperialism without killing the young Americans who are merely pawns in the imperialists' games. And that sends a message, loud and clear. That message is: "Hey, people of the Middle East! Want the media to give coverage to your anti-colonialism? Then go ahead and kill some Americans!" Criminal.
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Seldona Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-17-08 06:59 PM
Response to Reply #43
74. I know, that issue alone is enough, but we did this to everything.
Edited on Mon Nov-17-08 07:09 PM by Seldona
We privatized the entire country and put it up for bids to a select few. It will be decades before the full extent of that privatization will even be known, but there are some indicators we can look at today. Except for that same select few, things aren't looking so good.

Imagine what will happen just when the US Government stops subsidizing petrol? The American Taxpayer is buying gas at 5 or 6 bucks a gallon (Costs money to get gas into a war zone) and reselling it to Iraqi's for literal pennies on the dollar.

Why? Because if Iraqi's realized that what formerly cost them a few cents per gallon for their own damn gas will cost them that same 5 or 6 bucks when we leave, assuming that subsidy ends when we pull out, they would tear their own country down to get us out. And the big boys know it.

Hell, Iraqi's don't even know what an electric bill looks like. Wait until they start receiving them from energy companies that are from the country that invaded them in the first place. Think we'll be winning hearts and minds then?

What is President Elect Obama going to do about this? IS there anything that can be done at this point, is a better question? I really believe that this is out of our hands, and has been for some time.

All the Bush administration has been doing is buying time, literally. Then Big Badda Boom!

No doubt about it, President Elect Obama has his work cut out for him on nearly every front. And the boy that last had the scissors will be off 'filling the coffers' on the lecture circuit.
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The Backlash Cometh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-16-08 08:14 AM
Response to Original message
19. The way they're taking the fields,
it almost has some parallels to the US. Different method, same results. They pushed out small farmers.
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acmavm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-16-08 01:01 PM
Response to Original message
24. You mean that 'better life through chemistry' just might not be the truth?
Who'd have thunk it?

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RedLetterRev Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-16-08 01:06 PM
Response to Original message
25. We've been following Dr Vandana Shiva
for some years now. She's been on Democracy Now! and has appeared in numerous venues speaking out about the damage the GM crops have done to the most defenseless, both in terms of local farmers and local agriculture. On our little corner of the world farmlet, we've been growing more and more heirloom stuff, using up what hybrid seeds we've stored up until they're gone. We're keeping the two well-separate where pollenators aren't likely to cross-contaminate them, even to the extent of growing some indoors (giving us some yummy veggies over winter). There are lots of heirloom sites, and every payday we spend a few bucks to bank some seeds back against the day there might not be any or we might not have the cash to obtain them.

We've discovered some unusual crops that are reasonably prolific that will grow in our area. We've really had to do a lot of research and "out of the box" thinking to figure out what might feed us on such a small plot of land. Or "what is unusual enough to be wanted for trade?"

If you can't get past them, go around them. If you can't go around them, find a way to get beyond them. I'm enjoying foods I'd never heard of in my youth, and foods I grew up with are making a comeback.
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Two Americas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-16-08 01:24 PM
Response to Original message
26. the problem is not GMO
GMO is merely a tool for expanding control and domination over agriculture by corporations. It is that domination and control that is the problem, regardless of what methods they use to achieve that.
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LWolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-16-08 07:13 PM
Response to Reply #26
30. While you have a point,
Plants grown from genetically modified seed have potentially serious effects on the ecosystems they are planted in.

Which is a separate reason to abolish them.
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Two Americas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-17-08 09:21 AM
Response to Reply #30
59. it doesn't work
These narrowly targeted campaigns do not work. A strengthened public food and agriculture infrastructure, and restoring food research and inspection funding and staffing prevents all possible threats to the public welfare now, and in the future.

The problem with focusing on one threat and turning it into a cause, is that the approach doesn't work. Massive amounts of time and effort are spent in fear campaigns - as with aspartame and HFC syrup for example - and after decades we may - may - eliminate that one threat. But in a deregulated free market environment, corporations comes up with dozens of new threats in the meantime.

These campaigns are so ineffective and often even counter-productive, that it would not surprise me to learn that they are secretly funded by the corporations themselves. What better way to distract and neutralize any opposition to the take over of our food supply than to engage us all in emotionalized, time-consuming, and ineffective campaigns?
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LWolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-17-08 08:15 PM
Response to Reply #59
75. GMOs are HOW they are taking over the food supply. nt
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Two Americas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-17-08 10:08 PM
Response to Reply #75
76. one of many ways
It is but one of many ways. By the time we get the whole population alarmed about that issue, they will have conquered on several other fronts. The aspartame campaign is a good example to examine. The population has been as "educated" on that subject as they could ever be. Ask people on the street about aspartame, and they will say "oh doesn't it cause brain cancer or something?" After years of massive campaigns against aspartame (a relatively harmless naturally occurring molecule, by the way, and the campaign against it was all started by an email hoax) the activists have "succeeded" in getting it banned in New Mexico. Great. Wonderful.

We need a broader context for these fights, and one that is sustainable and builds public support for restoring the regulatory infrastructure.

The corporations will always be able to come up with dangerous things much faster than we can ever mobilize and fight, and the public is already weary of the endless fear campaigns.

This failed approach on these food issue illustrates a larger problem with modern liberal activism. The politics of "personal choice" and "personal values" - more appropriate for a religious movement than a political movement - has led to people giving being right, taking the right personal moral stance, above effective political action. Being right is the consolation prize in politics. People are more interested in feeling self-righteous than they are in getting results, and we have a grab bag of isolated and disconnected pet causes that people can become involved in as a matter of self expression. Self expression, and personal values and personal choices are all contradictory to effective political action.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-16-08 07:54 PM
Response to Reply #26
33. "Manifest Destiny" - "Man's Dominion Over Nature" - Capitalism ...
Patriarchy and their organized patriarchal religions in any sense "moral" ...??

No

Patriarchy has been at war on Nature for more than 50,000 years --

Patriarchal violence has overcome all resistance --
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tama Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-17-08 03:18 AM
Response to Reply #33
49. I beg to differ
I would say the history of civilization does not expand much further than 10 000 years, the beginning of agriculture. Not 50 000 years.

And as the story goes, it was young females who by their female virtues succeeded convincing their tribal shaman - who was too easily convinced being too male to be a good shaman ;) - to allow starting agriculture because it would make things "easier"... :)
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comrade snarky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-17-08 03:58 PM
Response to Reply #49
71. From my reading in anthropology
The hunter gatherers probably had a far better life than the early farmers.

Farming with a toolkit consisting of a stick, a pointed rock and a vague at best knowledge of agriculture had to seriously suck. :-)
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comrade snarky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-17-08 03:53 PM
Response to Reply #33
70. Damn, you figured it out!
Our secret 50,000 year war on everything good has been foiled. I guess now I'll just smash my balls with a rock.

After that we can go back the the Victorian mythology of the Matriarchy and put Sara Palin, Margaret Thatcher and Beverly LeHaye in charge. Everything will be so much better.

Whew that's a relief!
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tama Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-17-08 03:11 AM
Response to Reply #26
48. Symptom of the general problem
which is the yearn for domination over Nature by modern man or civilization or what ever. Loosing sense of belonging to nature, participating with the rest of the gang. As Nietzsche put it: "Wille zur Macht".
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undeterred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-16-08 01:52 PM
Response to Original message
27. Monsanto will treat it as a public relations problem
Edited on Sun Nov-16-08 01:55 PM by undeterred
since nobody there has a conscience.
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varelse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-16-08 07:43 PM
Response to Original message
31. Many of these farmers were forced to buy expensive GM seeds
The price difference is staggering: £10 for 100 grams of GM seed, compared with less than £10 for 1,000 times more traditional seeds.

But GM salesmen and government officials had promised farmers that these were 'magic seeds' - with better crops that would be free from parasites and insects.

Indeed, in a bid to promote the uptake of GM seeds, traditional varieties were banned from many government seed banks.

The authorities had a vested interest in promoting this new biotechnology. Desperate to escape the grinding poverty of the post-independence years, the Indian government had agreed to allow new bio-tech giants, such as the U.S. market-leader Monsanto, to sell their new seed creations.

In return for allowing western companies access to the second most populated country in the world, with more than one billion people, India was granted International Monetary Fund loans in the Eighties and Nineties, helping to launch an economic revolution.


For those insinuating otherwise - there's no tin foil required or present here - just honest reporting of another "economic hit".
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AlbertCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-17-08 12:44 PM
Response to Reply #31
64. Here is the crime!
Edited on Mon Nov-17-08 12:45 PM by AlbertCat
But GM salesmen and government officials had promised farmers that these were 'magic seeds' - with better crops that would be free from parasites and insects.

Indeed, in a bid to promote the uptake of GM seeds, traditional varieties were banned from many government seed banks.


******************

Misinformation and government compliance & cohersion....not GM seeds.
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Igel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-17-08 01:12 PM
Response to Reply #31
66. Just one problem.
And it's systemic in the article: The argument isn't made, it's assumed, and presented in such a way that the reader also assumes it. Then the proof, not being needed, isn't missed.

There's a change in topic--Monsanto, GM seeds, etc., etc.

Then, "in return for allowing western companies access", the IMF provided loans. Were GMO-pushers among the companies? Were they *required* to be among the "western companies"? Was India required to push the western companies' wares, or just "provide access".

Now, that India agreed to let them sell the seed is beyond dispute: Even if India rejected the idea of banning the seeds, that's still permission of a kind. However, is that the same as "vested interest"? The writer simply does not make explicit the crucial link in the argument. That happens when the writer cannot make it, is so into the topic that s/he thinks that it's unnecessary to make it (that's what editors are for), or has manipulated the reader (also a justification for the editor's pay); or when the reader is already informed about the link and doesn't need it to be made. So either I'm not part of the target audience--something silly for a mass publication--or the editor botched it after either the writer botched it or tried to manipulate the reader.

The same kind of begging the question occurs so often as to make shredding this article a worthy topic for a frosh comp course; of course, this doesn't say that the claim is false, just that this writer didn't, couldn't, or wouldn't make it. 18 suicides in one village are connected to farmers' use of GMOs ... out of how many suicides? GM seeds are grown ... but that's what the villager says; meanwhile, the writer alludes to the possibility of fake GM seeds being on the market, so are the instances where GMOs are used actually instances where GMOs are used? Did the writer check out this possibility, and isn't a good investigative reporter after truth and facts, not just advocacy against or for a position? This specific GM crop needs twice the water, so that's the problem ... but there's a drought, which, while making things more difficult, may make the distinction between needing X and 2X water moot--did traditional cotton varieties go to market successfully, not an unimportant point to make the writer's claim trustworthy. Etc., etc.
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McCamy Taylor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-16-08 08:12 PM
Response to Original message
34. This is so tragic. Can we collect natural seed and send it to the third world?
Edited on Sun Nov-16-08 08:13 PM by McCamy Taylor
As "food"? That they can plant.
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Raksha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-16-08 11:01 PM
Response to Reply #34
40. Every culture has its own heirloom varieties of seed
adapted to local growing conditions. From what the article says, apparently the traditional strains of cotton were drought-tolerant and the GM strains were not.

In some cases, the government aggressively promotes the overpriced GM seeds by making it illegal to save seed from the traditional varieties, forcing the farmer to buy seed from Monsanto every year...even if it's inferior to what he used to get for free if he saved his own seed. I believe the provisional authority in Iraq under Bremer tried to impose a regulation like that on Iraqi farmers, athough I don't know if it's still in effect.
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Two Americas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-17-08 09:25 AM
Response to Reply #34
60. no
There is nothing magical about "heirloom" seeds, and nothing "we" have here is necessarily appropriate. We are losing our varieties here.

The loss of crop diversity, everywhere, is a problem. There are several ongoing efforts to preserve germplasm and protect crop diversity.
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gtar100 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-16-08 08:13 PM
Response to Original message
35. Money lenders should take the risk as much as the farmer.
The farmers put their labor into it. If the crop failed because of bad seed, the money lender should share in the burden. Money lenders should have no right to go after the farmers who in good faith did all they could to make it a success. There is a crime here of fraud - the one who sold the seed. It is they who are now in debt to both the farmer and the money lender.

Or is my sense of justice skewed? Either by intent or negligence, there are some people with blood money in their bank accounts. What they have sown is their own corruption.
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Webster Green Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-16-08 10:10 PM
Response to Original message
38. Monsanto itself should be terminated by whatever means possible..
It is time to fight and destroy these mutherfuckers who would privatize the world's food supply. :grr:
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Kalyan Donating Member (152 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-16-08 11:31 PM
Response to Original message
42. The Ugly India
This is the ugly underbelly of India.

Move 20/30 miles away from any of the mega-metros: Bangalore, Chennai, Hyderabad, Mumbai and you see the sight of rural & agricultural India that reeks of poverty, rich-poor divide and the worst disease of all - caste-ism.

The "suicide farmers" aren't news here, they have been in the news for the past 10 years. Just this year, the government announced a massive $12 bn (Rs. 60,000 crores) farmer debt waiver scheme. My guess is that most of this money will be sucked by the govt officials, banks and money lenders and less than 10% will go to the needy. (One of our former PM lamented that just 20% of any development fund reaches the needy - the rest gobbled by corruption & govt)

To understand the issue, you need to know a few facts:

1. Money lenders charge rates in the range of 3 - 5% per month (36%-60% annually)
2. Caste plays a major role. The brahmins - priests & teachers are the highest, followed by the warrior class, the trader & farmer class and the servant class. This is the historic divide. Most of these classes are redundant with the majority of the land holding & power in India resting with the warrior class. In the name of equality & showcasing the progress made by the priests/teachers class, the warrior class has enacted many laws to give them more powers & entry into educational & government sectors. The warrior class has also re-started class wars by trying to keep lower caste people away leading to massive violence in many parts of rural India. The best part is that the media, always trying to be politically correct, blames the violence on the "upper class" implying the priest class of the violence. The warrior class has the most amount of wealth, representation in legislative, access to education & govt jobs through affirmative action.
3. Poor education of the farmers - many of whom are illiterate and know nothing about modern agricultural techniques
4. Small land holdings. Most of the farmers hold less than 2 acres of land. 2 acres is the govt defined min. amount of land to feed a family of 4.

Less than a major revolution, Indian farmers will continue to pay the price for the country's corrupt elite.
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La Lioness Priyanka Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-17-08 08:26 AM
Response to Reply #42
57. very accurate portrayal of what is going on in india
though i will say the wealth is held by not just brahmins and kshatriyas but also the business class (vaishya)..

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NorCalDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-17-08 12:52 AM
Response to Original message
44. Everyone should read...
"Confessions of an economic hitman" by John Perkins. The west has been doing exactly this (i.e. bankrupting emerging nations at a hefty profit) for decades now...
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Raksha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-17-08 01:36 AM
Response to Reply #44
45. I just finished it, and made the connection immediately.
It's the same filthy game John Perkins described in his book, only applied to agriculture.
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NorCalDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-17-08 01:39 AM
Response to Reply #45
46. That book is awesome.
Not that I like Halliburton to begin with, but I REALLY hated them after finishing that one :)

This book should be part of the DU reading club or something...
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tallahasseedem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-17-08 08:24 AM
Response to Reply #44
56. I read it too...
incredible. He also wrote "The Great American Empire" which is the sequel to Hitman. You should also try "Stuffed and Starved" by Raj Patel. It relates directly to this article and Capitalism.
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davidthegnome Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-17-08 04:08 AM
Response to Original message
51. Damn
This is beyond heartbreaking, beyond awful, no words really adequately describe it. How can people (I'm assuming GM upper management) live with what they're doing? Are they all complete socio paths? I know it's common for high earning CEOs to be socio paths... but it's damn hard to imagine how any human being could do this. Like Stalin, like Hitler, like so many of history's asshole tyrants. Now they simply come in the shape of gigantic corporations lead by socio paths rather than single Dictators.

Though I'm ashamed of myself for it, this is the first I've heard of this. Generally I try to stay away from news, National and International, as much as I can precisely because of stories like this. They depress me even more, they drain what little hope and optimism I have... which really isn't much at all.

I'm going to cry for these farmers and their families before I go to sleep tonight, I just know it. Cry for them and pray for them even though I don't know if there's a higher power at all... at times like this it's hard to believe there could be. I'm one of those people who pray just in case... but if there is a higher power it's got a lot to answer for. For not blasting these GM assholes and those like them with lightning bolts.

Damn GM, I'd be willing to join the resistance against them right now. I'd go right on over to India and help them fight the bastards off... if I didn't already have too much on my plate to handle and not even a fork or a spoon. If I could even afford the plane ticket or wasn't often so full of apathy and depression at the state of the world that I can barely get out of bed in the morning.

What a sick, sick world we live in.
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ellisD Donating Member (94 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-17-08 04:27 AM
Response to Original message
52. Monsanto: Patent for a Pig (video links)
GM terminator seeds are only the beginning.. the next target will be GM livestock - not that there is any inherit benefit from these altered animals... except for Monsanto being able to charge extra fees for their "intellectual property" rights

Patent for a Pig
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=1669587865067156619

The World According to Monsanto:
http://dandelionsalad.wordpress.com/2008/04/01/the-world-according-to-monsanto-a-documentary-that-americans-wont-ever-see-full-video/
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liberalla Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-17-08 04:46 AM
Response to Original message
53. What criminals. Monsanto disgusts me.
:kick:
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Ms. Toad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-17-08 08:35 AM
Response to Original message
58. The only thing I can tell which actually
has to do with genetic modification is this:

"When crops failed in the past, farmers could still save seeds and replant them the following year.

But with GM seeds they cannot do this. That's because GM seeds contain so- called 'terminator technology', meaning that they have been genetically modified so that the resulting crops do not produce viable seeds of their own."

The rest of (and far bigger problem) has to do with farmers being coerced into taking large loans to buy something they don't need. I would not call this GM genocide - it could just as easily have been fancy irrigation systems that were a poor match for the land they were farming (or fancy air conditioned mega-machines like so many US farmers were convinced they needed).

Family farming (in the US and elsewhere) provides not a whole lot above subsistence level income - even though farmers often have capital (the land they farm) that makes farm equipment vendors, fancy seed salesmen, fertilizer salesmen, etc. drool. It's a bad combination - people living on the edge but having capital that can secure debt - and corporations with convincing/coercive salesmen.
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melonkali Donating Member (78 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-17-08 01:11 PM
Response to Original message
65. Since this clearly cannot be a simple "mistake", is it deliberate genocide? By whom? Why?
This is simply beyond the pale -- a U.S. corporation, behind a mask of "benevolent aid", is committing genocide on some of the poorest, most destitute people in the world -- and it's not only continuing, it's spreading!

Is our government involved (perhaps in persuading the Indian government to play ball with Monsanto)? Does anyone know?

Why would they do this? It's obviously not a simple mistake -- Monsanto, and any other large company involved, could not be this incompetent. My husband suggests the unthinkable -- that this may be an effort to eliminate small farmers in India so large agricultural corporations can get their land. Is that possible?

What can we do? Are there places/people we can forward this information to who might listen and initiate action or public outcry?

(Oh -- and thanks to Prince Charles for bringing this to public attention. Sorry I've referred to you as a dense horsefaced fop all these years. Maybe "the royals" can be of some use?)



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Raksha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-17-08 04:58 PM
Response to Reply #65
73. It's the "genocide" of a class--i.e. independent peasant farmers,
the method of food production that has worked for India for 5,000 years. The goal is to replace that system with factory farming aka agribusiness. Montsanto et al. aren't TRYING to drive the farmers to suicide--they merely don't care if they do. The goal is the destruction of India's food self-sufficiency, replacing it with corporate feudalism.
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katty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-18-08 12:58 PM
Response to Reply #73
77. absolutely
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CastleInSand Donating Member (7 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-18-08 02:04 PM
Response to Original message
78. wish i had something more important to say
than GM crops creep me out...I don't get it at all, we don't know what they do in the long run at all. And they have snuck them in everywhere...
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